making Keffir vs Yogurt at home

[rotuts]

Ive been making my own yogurt at home for years. its very easy to do.

On the TraderJoes thread Kaffir was mentioned. I tried it and liked it. I have a sour tooth!

it has to be easy to make at home. ive Googled it and found that microbiology aside re the # of active biological agents, its made at room temp with milk that has not be denatured by heating/cooling, which you use to make yogurt.

most if not all of the few refs. Ive looked at via google suggest you cannot make keffir from commercial keffir ( ieTJ's) for various reasons, but need keffir granules which you buy.

http://www.yemoos.com/milkvs.html one example. this logic might be correct or not, based on bottling etc.

most of these sites are pleased to sell them to you.

is this true? i have my doubts. if the culture is live in TJ's brew, it will live in the new brew I make.

more of less.

are there any tried and true methods youve used for a while?

any Kaffir junkies here?

I also want to make non-fat kaffir as 1% kaffir will add a lot of fat over time to any diet.

I prefer my milk-fat naturally processed to Butter.

many thanks

also this:

But with that popularity has come a load of misinformation and deceiving products on the web. Authentic kefir can only be made by real kefir grains, not from any kind of packet or powder (or from incubating store-bought kefir). Kefir available at the stores are simply imitations. This is due to regulations on consistent products with known ingredients, bottling procedures and packaging and shipping standards.

from here:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Authentic-Milk-Kefir/

Edited September 4, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[Ttogull]

I don't personally know anything about kefir, but in matters like this I trust the book The Art of Fermentation by Sandor Katz. He is very good at "telling the truth." What he says is largely consistent with the info you linked. He doesn't address the issue of inoculating homemade kefir with store-bought, but makes it clear that commercial kefir has to contend with several issue like consistency and the avoidance of alcohol (regulatory problems).

Also, he compares kefir to a living oak tree. Kefir is its own living thing, and having the parts (as in a powder) can't recreate the living thing. Just like one cannot create a living oak tree by having its parts.

It sounds like having the grains is necessary, but they can live forever if they are fed. He suggests finding a fellow enthusiast as they often have more grains than they can use. Also Katz said he handmade kefir with raw, pasteurized, and ultrapateurized milks with no issues. He said he has a friend that uses no-fat milk and prefers it that way, but that he prefers fat.

[rotuts]

actually various yeasts and bacteria can be dried and come back to life if treated properly. consider active dry yeast.

not trying to be a dumb *ss, thats just the way it is.

Tj's has 10 livings items in it. for there to be a biological benefit, they have to be alive when consumed. dead (similar) items in pill for will not do much for you but spend your money.

Ill have to try and get that book.

many thanks for that tip. Better yet, my library has it !. Ill start with TJ's and then maybe move on.

Edited September 4, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[Martin Fisher]

You need kefir grains in order to make real kefir.

There are several sources for free grains.

http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/kefir/kefirlistUSA.php

Dom's is probably the best kefir site.

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

[Ttogull]

Yes, but Katz's point is that you cannot use those bacteria and yeasts to create a kefir curd, just like you could not create an oak tree or an elephant with the right mix of ingredients.

[rotuts]

got a culture on ebay, $14 delivered Friday.

30 was the cheapest i found on web sites.

you could not create an oak tree or an elephant with the right mix of ingredients

these days?

( Its A Joke ! )

[Franci]

I also tried water kefir bought from cultures for health http://www.culturesforhealth.com/starter-cultures/kefir-cultures.html and I didn't do a good job...although I really liked the water kefir I tried from a friend. I'll be curious to try the coconut milk kefir.

[rotuts]

I plan to make two "strains" or lines: the granules I bought and inoculum from Tj's

will report back soon!

[andiesenji]

I have had excellent results with the kefir cultures I purchased from New England Cheesemaking

I use their yogurt cultures because they "re-culture" better than other commercial cultures and the flavors are much better.

This vendor has been one of my favorites for many years - long before the internet - when I was making my own cheeses, and products they sell support our veterans with employment and other aids.

Subscribe to the "Moosletter" and get monthly articles.

[rotuts]

I decided to call :

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/starter-cultures/kefir-cultures.html

they were very pleasant on the phone.

I was impressed they also list the culture's bacteria/yeast. so Ill add a third strain to my experiments

[rotuts]

Update:

at 24 hours: my TJ's kefir experiment results are:

3/4 Qt nonfat milk + 1/4 Qt TJ's 1% plain kefir in a clean 1 QT canning jar: fermentation on going, mild taste not particularly thick.

cant say if all 10 strains are growing, of course. but this is fermented milk. room temp was 70 or so during the day and 68 or so at night.

Ill give it another day and report. Id like a little more tang and thickness.

[rotuts]

at 48 hours its a very nice brew. not as thick at the original, but very pleasant plain and as a berry smoothie.

[rotuts]

Id thought id update what Ive learned so far: the TJ's 'culture' is working fine, makes a nice kefir. I use non-fat milk, and 48 hours seems right for me.

I cant of course say if all 10 organisms are growing in this line, but it makes 'cultured room temp milk' fine

the ebay granules are also alive and doing well. they dont say what's in those granules, strains etc

just got the Cultures for Health granules: ordered Mon AM got it standard USPS today. a very hot day! brought the little box in and will keep cool until I get some more milk

CFH is nicely packaged with a nice instruction insert that's quite detailed.

if this grows well, ill probably just run this line as they tell me what's growing. not that that really matters ...

a fun an easy project If you like sour milk or Lassi. I mix mine w TJ's FZ fruit for a smoothie.

Edited September 11, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

my kefir project was a success as far as i'm concerned I had three strains: TJ's 'supernate', Ebay granules and

Cultures for Health granules

i sticking with the Cultures for Health granules. no particular reason other than they tell you what's in it. spoke to them on the phone twice and like them. their insert of instructions was very complete.

one note on their cultures: about day 2 or 3 of a one week 'break-in' there was a thick topping they mention in their instructions.

don't try to push this through your nylon mesh sieve as you might loose some of the granules.

just mix the total volume until smooth and then strain. tap the side of the strainer to get most of the supernate off.

I use my kefir for smoothies and enjoy it.