Question About a Black Bean Burger Recipe

[Shel_B]

I want to play around with this recipe: http://www.ciaprochef.com/northarvest/recipe10.html

I'm wondering what the purpose of the sour cream is? Is it a binding agent? How does this burger hold together if the sour cream isn't a binding agent? Can I use yogurt in place of the sour cream? Would a nonfat yogurt or sour cream work?

Are the potatoes a binder? Would sweet potatoes or butternut, acorn or other similar squash work?

Thanks!

Edited July 19, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[Ttogull]

I have made this burger before, and it is fantastic. CIA also has a red bean and quinoa burger that is excellent (even better, IMHO).

I would like to piggyback on your post, if I may, and ask if the sour cream can be substituted by a tofu version of sour cream for those interested in a vegan version. This matters I guess if it is a binding agent.

[Shel_B]

CIA also has a red bean and quinoa burger that is excellent (even better, IMHO).

That looks good, also. It's interesting the egg and flour are used as a binder for the red bean burger but not the black bean burger, which leads me to think that the sour cream and potatoes act as the binding agents for the black bean burgers.

I'm going to experiment more with the black bean burgers before moving to the red bean burgers. I want to try the black bean burgers with whole kernel corn in place of some beans and sweet potatoes in place of the red potatoes.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[Lisa Shock]

Real sour cream (Daisy, Knudsen) is not a binding agent. Cheapo sour cream and imitation sour cream may have some binding ability if they contain gelatin. Non fat sour cream or yogurt should work ok in this recipe, they too are not binding agents. They usually contain a lot of starch which binds a little bit, think sauce thickening, but not enough to hold a bunch of starchy beans together.

Potatoes have no binding abilities beyond weak starches. Once again, think thickening sauces not holding large chunks of anything together. Mashed potatoes aren't very well bound, not like an omlette or a loaf of bread, or bread dough.

The bread crumbs are the binding agent in that formula. If you sub yogurt, make the burgers fairly quickly, the acidity may break down the bread crumbs' gluten and lessen the binding ability.

[Lisa Shock]

I should add that gelatin stops being a binding agent once it's heated, so, cheapo sour cream made with gelatin won't bond a burger that will be cooked.

[SylviaLovegren]

The sour cream would help make the burger moist, I would think, and I'd also think the fat in the s.c. would add to the moist mouthfeel.

[rotuts]

as already noted, if these veg burgers have no to little fat they are going to have a dry mouthfeel. the amount of sourcream in the original Rx does not seem to be a lot.

you could make a few different mods. and find out: sour cream non-fat yogurt full fat yogurt and see

would be a very interesting study! I like the idea of the sweet potato substitution. are you going to peel those SP's ?

[Shel_B]

Lisa: The nonfat sour cream I use contains no gelatin or other additives, such as thickeners, flavor enhancers, gums, etc. It's pure dairy. I think I'll use the sour cream instead of the yogurt in the first batch, but maybe not fat free sour cream. I'll use panko bread crumbs as that's what I have and they work well in my zucchini burgers.

One thing about the recipe that has ne curious is that it doesn't say to drain and rinse the beans, which is what most recipes using canned beans suggest. Would not draining the beans add to the "binding factor?"

rotuts: I made a quick and dirty version of the burgers a couple-three days ago using mashed butternut squash and TJ's canned corn. I forgot the bread crumbs and didn't use sour cream or yogurt. The burgers didn't hold together very well, but the flavor profile was quite good. I think using squash or red sweet potatoes will work out very well. Of course, a little more experimentation is in order.

Although Toots doesn't care for spicy foods, I may try adding some chipotle to the burgers I make for myself with the sweet potatoes. Chipotle is a nice partner to red sweet potatoes and to black beans (at least I think so).

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.

[Ttogull]

I just want to throw in that the burgers would cease to be vegetarian if the sour cream includes gelatin.

[Shel_B]

I just want to throw in that the burgers would cease to be vegetarian if the sour cream includes gelatin.

That's a good point and should be noted for those wanting to make the burgers truly vegetarian, and some people might say that using dairy would remove the burgers from the realm of "true" vegetarian fare. For Toots and me, it's not an issue on a couple of levels. The sour cream we'd use contains no gelatin and we're not ardent vegetarians. We just eat very little meat and enjoy fresh vegetables and fruits quite a bit.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[rotuts]

I also like the idea of the squash. if your projects don't hold together, would you consider beaten egg whites? or whole egg?

that probably was not considered in the original as that might not be Kosher.

[Lisa Shock]

They probably assume that you are draining the beans. And, no the bean liquid would not adding any binding abilities.

[Shel_B]

I also like the idea of the squash. if your projects don't hold together, would you consider beaten egg whites? or whole egg?

I've no objection to adding egg ... might add a little more nutrition.

[Shel_B]

They probably assume that you are draining the beans. And, no the bean liquid would not adding any binding abilities.

Interesting assumption. Not something I'd assume. Thanks for your comments.

[Ttogull]

The recipe, as far as I can tell, just calls for cooked beans. The recipe seems to originate from several prepared for the Northarvest Bean Growers Assoc. most of the others start from dry beans. The red bean burger in particular calls for cooking the beans and draining them, not rinsing. The recipes are available in PDF.

The following video is of the recipe being made. It looks to me like the beans are drained but not rinsed. He also mentions that the potato is for flavor and texture.

[Shel_B]

The following video is of the recipe being made. It looks to me like the beans are drained but not rinsed. He also mentions that the potato is for flavor and texture.

I've seen the video, but hadn't noticed that the beans were not rinsed. Thanks for pointing that out.