Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2012

[rotuts]

I plan to try this soon with sirloin tips. Id ice-chill after the 4 hours and get that meat as cold as possible, then in the refrig.

[DouglasBaldwin]

I strongly recommend cooking directly after rapid aging and not refrigerating. Rapid aging without additional hurdles (as they're called in the food safety biz) is already pushing the boundary of what's considered safe. I'd suggest using an additional hurdle like an acidic marinade (with pH less than 4) as Pedro does and never using mechanically tenderized meat when rapidly aging.

[jrshaul]

I am having real trouble trying to figure out why you want to go to such extremes to measure the temperature in your crock pot? What are you trying to accomplish?

Waterpoof submersible probes are expensive to buy, but cheap to make. I bought the thermocouples for about $2 each on eBay, and the remainder of the stuff is just bits and pieces sitting around. I'll be moving to a better SV setup shortly, but I'd like to have the versatility of being able to keep food in my crock pot at a safe ~145F.

Also, my last thermocouple shorted out from water, and I don't want to lose $20 in T-bones due to a second failure. There's no kill like overkill.

[Justin Uy]

Anyone here ever tried to SV a beef tenderloin chain? I've never cooked with it before, and none of my books have references, so I'm unsure whether I should treat it like a tough cut and give it a long time or a tender cut and just bring it to temp.

[EnriqueB]

When meat is going to be marinated and then cooked sous-vide I've read recipes doing it in two different ways: either marinating first, say overnigth, then cleaning the meat and cooking it sous-vide (without the marinade, same as with traditional methods); either putting together the marinate and the meat in the bag, vacuum-packing, maybe leaving it together for a while, then cooking the meat with the marinade, which is discarded at the end, just before searing.

Has someone perceived differences between both methods? Which way do you prefer?

[ChrisTaylor]

I've just ordered the SV@Home kit (essentially an Australian rebranding of some other company's probe/PID combo, intended for use with rice cookers and slow cookers). The kit is rated up to, iirc, 3000 or 3300. Anyway. I can easily (thanks, eBay) get water heaters that sit at ~2500w. And can go up to boiling point, if need be (i.e. they're not those fish tank heaters only designed to take water up to the sort of temperatures you might find off the coast of an equatorial island). My idea, basically, is to follow a home build for a proper sous vide oven--i.e. big arse plastic tub, a heater and something to act as a circulator. In the guide I'm looking at, the guy is using a simple fish tank pump (which, for context, can be had for literally 1/10 the price of the sort of pump you'd use in home brew setups). So. Fish tank pumps. I assume that someone, somewhere in the great expanse of the eGullet wilds has upgraded from a rice cooker to a plastic tub with heater. What should I be looking at in terms of pumps? Obviously I'll need to ensure it won't crack the shits at being exposed to higher temperatures than your average fish tank pump, but aside from that will basically *anything* do?

[paulpegg]

I've just ordered the SV@Home kit (essentially an Australian rebranding of some other company's probe/PID combo, intended for use with rice cookers and slow cookers). The kit is rated up to, iirc, 3000 or 3300. Anyway. I can easily (thanks, eBay) get water heaters that sit at ~2500w. And can go up to boiling point, if need be (i.e. they're not those fish tank heaters only designed to take water up to the sort of temperatures you might find off the coast of an equatorial island). My idea, basically, is to follow a home build for a proper sous vide oven--i.e. big arse plastic tub, a heater and something to act as a circulator. In the guide I'm looking at, the guy is using a simple fish tank pump (which, for context, can be had for literally 1/10 the price of the sort of pump you'd use in home brew setups). So. Fish tank pumps. I assume that someone, somewhere in the great expanse of the eGullet wilds has upgraded from a rice cooker to a plastic tub with heater. What should I be looking at in terms of pumps? Obviously I'll need to ensure it won't crack the shits at being exposed to higher temperatures than your average fish tank pump, but aside from that will basically *anything* do?

Nope, fish tank pumps will not ""do". They cannot withstand temps over 60C. i have had a number of them fail and no longer recommend them. See my build at here. Read all the way to the end for pump recommendations.

[ChrisZ]

I've just ordered the SV@Home kit (essentially an Australian rebranding of some other company's probe/PID combo, intended for use with rice cookers and slow cookers).

I thought I'd chime in and say that this is what I've been using too, although mine is an earlier model that is less precise and not a true PID. When I became curious about sous vide I didn't want to spend a lot of money just to experiment, so when I saw their original model on sale for $100 and I found a vacuum sealer for $44, I plugged in our rice cooker and had a home rig up and running for less than $150! That's a lot, lot less than any other home brew sous vide rigs I was looking at.

It's worked well over the 18 months I've used it - it's a simple, low cost rig that has produced many excellent pork bellies and salmon fillets. My earlier model isn't too precise (my guess is +/- 2 degrees C), so I won't be joining in the argument about whether the perfect egg is 63 or 63.5 C, but it's certainly good enough for everyday cooking.

If my model is a guide, they're not re-branding an overseas unit. It looks like they've found a suitable temperature controller from China and they've designed and assembled everything themselves. At this price, good on them - their website is here, for any other interested Australians.

[Neil Smith]

So. Fish tank pumps. I assume that someone, somewhere in the great expanse of the eGullet wilds has upgraded from a rice cooker to a plastic tub with heater. What should I be looking at in terms of pumps? Obviously I'll need to ensure it won't crack the shits at being exposed to higher temperatures than your average fish tank pump, but aside from that will basically *anything* do?

As Paul said, fish tank pumps won't do. Like him, I've melted a few while I was learning that lesson. You can get cheap high-temperature pumps on eBay (I use the a P-38B 12V DC Submersible Water Pump, but there are others). You might also consider using a fish tank bubbler, without airstone, to circulate the water.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Neil Smith (log)

[pep.]

One of the threads on candying fruit mentioned "cold candying" by sealing fruit and syrup and putting it into the fridge. MC has tables for cooking fruit in syrup until tender, but that's not quite the same as candying. Googling didn't turn up anything worthwhile.

So, has anyone here tried any candying using sous-vide equipment? Specifically, I've got a bunch of green walnuts that have been soaking in water for the last two weeks (changed daily, of course). Last year, I used the traditional steps for "black nuts" (boiling in syrup three times). This time, I'd like to do at least half of them sous-vide. Any tips?

My initial idea would be to pack them in the jars, fill up with a 2 parts sugar/1 part water syrup and put those into a 88 °C water bath. Or will the sugar concentration not be high enough in that case? Should I pre-blanch the nuts in slightly sugared boiling water once (as in the traditional recipes)?

[Kerry Beal]

One of the threads on candying fruit mentioned "cold candying" by sealing fruit and syrup and putting it into the fridge. MC has tables for cooking fruit in syrup until tender, but that's not quite the same as candying. Googling didn't turn up anything worthwhile.

So, has anyone here tried any candying using sous-vide equipment? Specifically, I've got a bunch of green walnuts that have been soaking in water for the last two weeks (changed daily, of course). Last year, I used the traditional steps for "black nuts" (boiling in syrup three times). This time, I'd like to do at least half of them sous-vide. Any tips?

My initial idea would be to pack them in the jars, fill up with a 2 parts sugar/1 part water syrup and put those into a 88 °C water bath. Or will the sugar concentration not be high enough in that case? Should I pre-blanch the nuts in slightly sugared boiling water once (as in the traditional recipes)?

I think you are going to have to place them in increasingly concentrated sucrose solutions. So you can pack the nuts the first time with the initial sucrose solution, sous vide, then drain and concentrate the syrup, repack, sous vide again, drain, concentrate, repack. Or simply make a few different solutions to start. Don't know if you gain anything this way over just boiling the three times. I get laughed at when I try to sous vide everything...I think the exactly words used have been "when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail"!

But - here is a link to a neat article on vacuum candying/drying of fruit that caught my fancy and someday will be tried.

[pep.]

I think you are going to have to place them in increasingly concentrated sucrose solutions.

I don't think that's actually necessary, as long as there is enough sugar to reach the desired concentration for the total amount of liquid (initial syrup and nuts). It should be similar to equilibrium brining.

However, packing the nuts into jars will probably leave too little space for the syrup. Probably better to pack everything in a bag and fill the glass jars after the candying is done.

The question is, what should be the final sugar concentration in the nuts?

[paulpegg]

So. Fish tank pumps. I assume that someone, somewhere in the great expanse of the eGullet wilds has upgraded from a rice cooker to a plastic tub with heater. What should I be looking at in terms of pumps? Obviously I'll need to ensure it won't crack the shits at being exposed to higher temperatures than your average fish tank pump, but aside from that will basically *anything* do?

As Paul said, fish tank pumps won't do. Like him, I've melted a few while I was learning that lesson. You can get cheap high-temperature pumps on eBay (I use the a P-38B 12V DC Submersible Water Pump, but there are others). You might also consider using a fish tank bubbler, without airstone, to circulate the water.

I melted one of those P38B's when cooking asparagus at 83C. I do not recommend it. I could not find any submersible pump capable of high temperatures. That is why i went to an external pump.

[ishkabibble]

Lamb shoulder chops--I bought a couple, but in looking for a cooking time, I'm finding everything from 2 hours to 24 hours. I'd like to cook them at 130º. Any opinions?

Bill

[Kerry Beal]

I think you are going to have to place them in increasingly concentrated sucrose solutions.

I don't think that's actually necessary, as long as there is enough sugar to reach the desired concentration for the total amount of liquid (initial syrup and nuts). It should be similar to equilibrium brining.

However, packing the nuts into jars will probably leave too little space for the syrup. Probably better to pack everything in a bag and fill the glass jars after the candying is done.

The question is, what should be the final sugar concentration in the nuts?

Most candied fruit are around 65 Brix.

[Paul McMichael]

Thinking about pumps - all you need is mixing. My first try was with a plastic tub sitting on an old magnetic lab stirrer - worked fine until I found a lab circulator on ebay for $30 (needed some leaks fixed.)

[lesliec]

Lamb shoulder chops ...

Hi Bill.

Sous vide is very kind to lamb, I find. Your proposed temperature is about right; I go a little higher when I'm doing lamb, but not much. The variation in cooking times you're hearing probably have to do with the tenderness of the cut of lamb. I do lamb racks for about two hours (followed by a sear) and they're great, but that's tender meat anyway. Shoulder chops will have more fat/cartilage/stuff and might need a bit longer. I'd suggest four hours and see what they're like.

Experiments are good ...

[ChrisZ]

Lamb shoulder chops--I bought a couple, but in looking for a cooking time, I'm finding everything from 2 hours to 24 hours. I'd like to cook them at 130º. Any opinions?

It's possible that no-one else has extensively tested different variations of sous vide lamb shoulder chops, so if you were serious about this and set up an experiment comparing different times and temperatures then you'd probably become THE lamb chop expert.

In general, you'll find two approaches to cooking red meat sous vide - less than 60C (140F) for a few days, or more than 75C (167F) for a few hours. There's a no mans land in between those approximate temperature ranges, which others can explain better than I can. The different approaches result in different textures and can come down to personal preference and practicalities - it's not practical to cook everything for 3 days :-)

[nickrey]

Given the fat in lamb shoulder chops, I'm not sure they'd be that nice cooked at anything less than 140F for a reasonably long time period.

[paulpegg]

Lamb shoulder chops--I bought a couple, but in looking for a cooking time, I'm finding everything from 2 hours to 24 hours. I'd like to cook them at 130º. Any opinions?

It's possible that no-one else has extensively tested different variations of sous vide lamb shoulder chops, so if you were serious about this and set up an experiment comparing different times and temperatures then you'd probably become THE lamb chop expert.

In general, you'll find two approaches to cooking red meat sous vide - less than 60C (140F) for a few days, or more than 75C (167F) for a few hours. There's a no mans land in between those approximate temperature ranges, which others can explain better than I can. The different approaches result in different textures and can come down to personal preference and practicalities - it's not practical to cook everything for 3 days :-)

I do boneless leg of lamb at 60C for 24 hours and then 5-10 minutes in the hottest oven I can muster.

Edited July 16, 2012 by paulpegg (log)

[pimpolho]

So. Fish tank pumps. I assume that someone, somewhere in the great expanse of the eGullet wilds has upgraded from a rice cooker to a plastic tub with heater. What should I be looking at in terms of pumps? Obviously I'll need to ensure it won't crack the shits at being exposed to higher temperatures than your average fish tank pump, but aside from that will basically *anything* do?

As Paul said, fish tank pumps won't do. Like him, I've melted a few while I was learning that lesson. You can get cheap high-temperature pumps on eBay (I use the a P-38B 12V DC Submersible Water Pump, but there are others). You might also consider using a fish tank bubbler, without airstone, to circulate the water.

I melted one of those P38B's when cooking asparagus at 83C. I do not recommend it. I could not find any submersible pump capable of high temperatures. That is why i went to an external pump.

dam it seems I have to buy some fish then...

If you blow air intowater wont it drops temperature down?

[rotuts]

not if you have a secure insulated top !

OK i drops in a miniscule amount.

If you go with the insulted coolers (ie beer coolers that you have insulated the top)

the energy loss is less than minimal

[Neil Smith]

If you blow air intowater wont it drops temperature down?

Not particularly. You really don't need very much air going in to do the circulating. Water has a pretty go thermal conductivity already, so even without agitation the water temperature will be pretty even across the tank anyway.

[ishkabibble]

Thanks everyone. I did the lamb shoulder chops at 130º for 24 hours. Good flavor and texture, but I still prefer loin or rib chops.

[dcarch]

Hello guys, please help me out.

Got a couple of pounds of "Beef Chuck Short Ribs Boneless". Looks wonderful with marbling almost like Kobe.

I have done short ribs many times before, but not chuck short ribs.

What should I do with this? Timing? Temperature?

Thanks.

dcarch