Canned Beans vs Dry Beans

[Double 0]

Canned Canned Canned (Goya), some of us work here. I agree with Savir, lets have a blind tasting and see who can tell the difference .

Edited December 20, 2002 by Double 0 (log)

[La Niña]

I'm tellin' ya, with chickpeas it's really easy to tell.

[Suzanne F]

Sounds like a good set-up for another taste-off! Let's discuss it more after the 1st of the year? I might even offer to host, since I have space.

Cakewalk -- "fresh" dried beans are from the current year's crop, or the previous year -- NO OLDER. Age does make a difference, and the older the dried bean, the worse the results. (This is different from rice, some of which can be aged for years and years to develop a distinctive flavor.) That's why it's better to buy the beans in stores where you can feel sure there's high turnover.

[Wilfrid]

Goya is a good brand when canned beans are appropriate. Maybe I could get my Beloved to whip up some rice and beans for the cook off.

[Stone]

Assuming you have decent canned beans, I've never noticed a problem with them. In fact, my attempts to make fresh beans have been such failures (they usually fall apart, or they're mealy), that I've practically given up. (They may get done quicker -- keep testing so they don't fall apart. 90 minutes isprobably too long.)

I favour tinned beans. I can't discern any loss in quality as long as it's a reputable brand.

Just make sure you rinse the horrid liquid and gack away well.

I am glad you are honest Jinmyo. I clicked on this thread fearing I would find those that swear they can taste a difference.

I was worried I would have to challenge them to a blind tasting to identify what dishes were cooked with canned versus fresh.

I am so happy you think like me Jinmyo. It gives me more confidence in myself.

I rinse the beans very well, and do not worry after that.

And take this seriously, I used to only use dry beans... but now, I use canned ones.. and no one can ever tell the difference.

What am I, frickin chopped liver?

Awbrig -- as others have said (and I said) -- be careful about simmering canned beans too long. the 90 minute simmer time in the recipe no doubt assumed fresh beans that have to be cooked through. Otherwise, expecially since there are other flavors around, you'll probably not notice a difference unless you go looking for it.

[Suzanne F]

Naw, I'd never, ever use canned chopped liver.

[Jim Dixon]

I'll use canned beans if they're part of some larger dish, but I really like just plain beans, and cooking dry beans is the only way for that. You also get the bonus of what my old friend Jerry used to call bean juice.

(Jerry, aka Gerardo, was the son of migrant workers. We worked together for the Forest Service and kept a crock pot of pinto beans going round the clock. He turned me on to the great flavor of just beans, bean juice, and salt.)

I've posted before about my no-soak oven method....put beans, about 4 times as much water, salt, and any flavoring agents into a baking vessel of some kind (I use a pyrex dish covered with foil)...cook in 200 degree F oven until done (you start to smell them cooking before they're done).

Jim

[Coop]

Now that's what I'm talking about. A stupid thread about canned beans and thanks to Jim Dixon we actually learned something.

[cakewalk]

Now that's what I'm talking about. A stupid thread about canned beans and thanks to Jim Dixon we actually learned something.

Actually I learned a lot in addition to Jim Dixon. (Thanks all.) But then I'm a candidate for affirmative action around these here parts anyway.

[scamhi]

I'm tellin' ya, with chickpeas it's really easy to tell.

I agree with Niña. Chickpeas when made with dried beans have a better texture and flavor...I can always tell the difference. Get me a blindfold.

[Suvir Saran]

I'm tellin' ya, with chickpeas it's really easy to tell.

I agree with Niña. Chickpeas when made with dried beans have a better texture and flavor...I can always tell the difference. Get me a blindfold.

I am willing to test both Nina and you...

But you have to make promises as to what you would do when you are made humble pie.

Will not waste my precious time otherwise.

You certainly would not be the first to fail my blind folded canned vs. dry bean test. Many others and some of great culinary fame have done so before this...

[La Niña]

I'm in. For chickpeas. Interestingly enough, scamhi and I are going to Maison d'Couscous on Monday. Perhaps we'll do a bit of discussing with the chef there...

Edited December 20, 2002 by La Niña (log)

[Suvir Saran]

I'm tellin' ya, with chickpeas it's really easy to tell.

Nina if you give me a plan for what you will do after you fail the test, I am willing to administer the thread. Publically if you want, or at a home.... With an open to all eGulleteers, or just as many as you choose, and all I want is a public, maybe even TV and Radio inclusive agreement to never again confusing the lack of difference between well prepared canned and well prepared dry bean preparations.

Some of you may have made cassoulets and others hummus and chicpea salad and some other beans... But remember, my people (Indians) have been using them daily for as long as history. And not just one or two or three, but all their forms. Legumes are used in our cooking daily and in only dry and fresh forms. No canned beans for us back home. I cook copious sums of beans every year. More than what many eGulleteers could cook as a sum. Beans are the backbone to most all Indian cooking (even more so to vegetarians).

I am not speaking without a proven record here. I have humbled (and in rare cases, have been able to shame, some that had egos that could not think this could ever happen, and so were being rather foolishly arrogant and stubborn) many who could never imagine canned beans could taste the same.

I am ready for more to apply for this ritual of canned bean conversion. But I am not going to do it without very precise and pre-advertised rules. I would love to show there is no difference. Or at least that NO ONE could tell the difference. I am willing, able and confident to come out the only winner. I will prepare 4 dishes from the same legume. All dishes will be made from fresh and canned, and you and a couple of others, will be blind folded. Served all eight preparations. And you will have to tell which is which.

When you put your plan for a public humbling post into text here, let me know and I will begin preparations for the blindfolded test.

[Suvir Saran]

I'm in.  For chickpeas.  Interestingly enough, scamhi and I are going to Maison d'Couscous on Monday.  Perhaps we'll do a bit of discussing with the chef there...

I do not care what chefs say. People (not just chefs) say a lot and mean little and have even less to back what they say. If I start taking everything a chef, writer, painter, banker, computer consultant and doctor were to start telling me as gospel truth, I might as well stop living in honesty.

I have had chefs of great fame and name recognition fail the chickpea test.

They are fools who came into it arrogantly and left humbled and speechless, and it was great fun to watch them. For all their arrogance, they knew no better. And really, why should they. It is not the end of the world.

Please, this nonsense means nothing. Chefs hardly know better than the rest of us.

They can cook, as for ingredients, they certainly do not know better than those who have cooked with ingredients for decades more than them. A home chef that has worked with beans for 60 years, and still fails the test of canned vs. dry is what teaches me about this test. Not some fancy chef who would never know the difference for most of them do not even know what plant these canned or dry beans come from.

But as for you being serious, I understand that, and respect that. Let me know what you will do for me after you fail the test, and then, I can set a date that is good for both of us for this test.. and bring some judges that make sure it is fair. I am not interested in another eGullet dinner for the sake of dinner, this will be a taste test. And a test to a lot ignorance. And that is why I ask for great planning.

I take my beans very seriously. And I cook beans more than most of you have in years and years. I got into teaching only because of what I do with legumes. The Director of the NYU Department of Nutrition & Food Studies loved my beans... and she called me in for an interview and then brought me in as a teacher and next thing as an Adjunct Professor. I know what I speak about here. I am not one that spent summers or months cooking in areas where beans were popular and important, but I have lived my life with people that cooked beans (and only from dry for the most part) daily and in several forms. So, I take dry beans very seriously, but after coming to the US 10 years ago, I learned how easy it is to cook with canned beans to get the IDENTICAL result. But it takes a passion for cooking, brains and some ingenuity to get identical results without using the same product. It is easy. But it needs some creativity. Certainly not every person has that creativity. Certainly not those that get lost in a world of absolutes.

Both canned and dry have their greatness and their individual winning traits. But only a fool would think they really can tell the difference between canned and dry beans in a recipe that involves any more than just a blind tasting of boiled plain beans.

And interestingly enough, I will only test you on chickpeas. For any others, you will not pass anyway. You will fail the chickpea test for sure. But at least I will have only one bean to tease you about for the rest of your life. I will spare each of us more ammunition.

But you are a great sport. And I thank you for being in. Now give me rules about how I can ensure you humility after you fail the test. And I will plan the dates with those that work for you.

[Suvir Saran]

I find most canned beans to be infinitely preferable to the dried.

Any difference in taste is minimal and the convenience factor is immeasurably better

I always keep a stock of canned beans in the larder as they can be used in a million and one different ways

S

Words of a smart man.

These Bengalis always have a way of being ahead of others.

[Suvir Saran]

I'll use canned beans if they're part of some larger dish, but I really like just plain beans, and cooking dry beans is the only way for that. You also get the bonus of what my old friend Jerry used to call bean juice.

(Jerry, aka Gerardo, was the son of migrant workers. We worked together for the Forest Service and kept a crock pot of pinto beans going round the clock. He turned me on to the great flavor of just beans, bean juice, and salt.)

I've posted before about my no-soak oven method....put beans, about 4 times as much water, salt, and any flavoring agents into a baking vessel of some kind (I use a pyrex dish covered with foil)...cook in 200 degree F oven until done (you start to smell them cooking before they're done).

Jim

Jim how long do you bake them for?

What beans do you use most often?

[Suvir Saran]

Assuming you have decent canned beans, I've never noticed a problem with them. In fact, my attempts to make fresh beans have been such failures (they usually fall apart, or they're mealy), that I've practically given up. (They may get done quicker -- keep testing so they don't fall apart. 90 minutes isprobably too long.)

I favour tinned beans. I can't discern any loss in quality as long as it's a reputable brand.

Just make sure you rinse the horrid liquid and gack away well.

I am glad you are honest Jinmyo. I clicked on this thread fearing I would find those that swear they can taste a difference.

I was worried I would have to challenge them to a blind tasting to identify what dishes were cooked with canned versus fresh.

I am so happy you think like me Jinmyo. It gives me more confidence in myself.

I rinse the beans very well, and do not worry after that.

And take this seriously, I used to only use dry beans... but now, I use canned ones.. and no one can ever tell the difference.

What am I, frickin chopped liver?

Chopped liver with onions and tomatoes is great on toast.

Reminds me of the wonderful liver served on toast in Srinagar, Kashmir.

[La Niña]

And interestingly enough, I will only test you on chickpeas.  For any others, you will not pass anyway.  You will fail the chickpea test for sure.  But at least I will have only one bean to tease you about for the rest of your life.  I will spare each of us more ammunition.

But you are a great sport.  And I thank you for being in.  Now give me rules about how I can ensure you humility after you fail the test.  And I will plan the dates with those that work for you.

I think you might be just a tad more enthusiastic about this than I am.

Edited December 20, 2002 by La Niña (log)

[Wilfrid]

My enthusiasm is much restrained by the fact that I have tried making dishes with canned beans and dried beans are much better. What's the test? Suvir, do you have some secret to using canned beans? Cassoulet with canned beans is disgusting.

[Human Bean]

Suvir, what types of dishes do you prepare when doing the test? I could imagine that if you had enough spices and other complex flavors in the dish, any taste difference in the beans may by masked by everything else.

[Suvir Saran]

I think you might be just a tad more enthusiastic about this than I am. 

Maybe a Beau more? Since Tad has gotten to be tiresome.

[Suvir Saran]

Suvir, what types of dishes do you prepare when doing the test? I could imagine that if you had enough spices and other complex flavors in the dish, any taste difference in the beans may by masked by everything else.

You certainly are a tad/beau more intelligent than the rest here.

One has to make little if any effort to mask the difference.

I was just speaking with Ed Schoenfeld, we spoke of this thread, had our 2 minutes of engaging debate. He said it was interesting to see how many would take such a bold stand when all it deserves is two minutes. Either way, the difference is very little, and if you add more ingredients into the mix, the difference gets reduced further. And certainly if you add spices it is further reduced.

You are smart... But I will reserve any revealing details about the dishes I will prepare till the dishes are tasted and tested.

They are not your usual 20 minute hummus/chickpea salad/chana chaat recipes, but very sophisticated and involved ones. But I shall only make them for those that are promising to publicly share their failure with all after the test in pointing which dish was made from dried and which from canned.

There is a great difference in the two. But it ends at the point where the beans get cooked from dry, and the beans get washed from the can. After that, it is about how smart and clever a chef you are, to use either to come closer to the other. It is possible and easy. But an effort has to be made.

And you are certainly onto something poignant. And as I said, you are a tad closer to the truth than the rest of us.

[Wilfrid]

You are moving the goalposts, Suvir. Speaking only for myself, I don't claim that it is impossible to make a dish which disguises the difference between canned and dried beans. You seem a competent chap, so I bet you can.

My bold stance was that for most dishes, day in, day out, dried beans give you a better result.

[Suvir Saran]

My enthusiasm is much restrained by the fact that I have tried making dishes with canned beans and dried beans are much better.  What's the test?  Suvir, do you have some secret to using canned beans?  Cassoulet with canned beans is disgusting.

No Wilfrid. I am afraid I am not from this culture of canned goods. Few if any of these secrets come easily to me. Ask me for secrets of how to cook dry beans.. and I shall share plenty with you. For that is what my people knew about and still rely on.

Secrets of canned beans I have learned after coming to the US. Secrets learned from chefs big and small, famous and not so famous or some infamous, and recipes learned from a smart grandmother that only ever cooked with dry beans, but who after suffering strokes and heart attacks and several fractures, find little if any reason to not used canned beans after she has taught herself how to prepare age old recipes using canned beans. And after he has shown her dear husband of 60 years, my grandfather, that nothing in her cooking in the US compromises the tastes and flavors of the foods he was served by his family, their cooks and her before she came here.

The key here, as with most cooking, is to first understand what you are working with. And then you make the most of your downfalls. In fact you make your weakest link your strongest one.

It is easy to do Wilfrid. And if a chef or cook or en expert or novice, can put aside ego and bias, they can easily pick these tricks after one or two tries.

If you hate canned beans in cassoulets, tell me why? Once you get the answer, your answer will have the trick for making that failure inevitable next time, even though you use canned beans again. You can learn to adjust your recipe. Learn to reduce cooking liquids before adding the beans. You can learn to flavor the beans with the same flavors as your liquid in the cassoulet even as it waits to be added to the final preparation. There are several things you can do.. and you can come up with on your own.

The best secret I can share is the secret of being open. Of welcoming new things into your world. After some time, they become a part of your world, certainly in new ways.. and after you make some room. But that is the first and most important secret.

[Suvir Saran]

My bold stance was that for most dishes, day in, day out, dried beans give you a better result.

And my even bolder stance is that NO.

For Day In, Day Out, canned beans are a winner.

For special occasions, dried beans are worth the extra fuss (for little if any gain). For you feel better about yourself, and your most arrogant guests can bask in your confidence. I would buy that more easily than for day in, day out.