But the recipe SAYS!

[Mjx]

Most of us have had the experience of using a lousy recipe source, or worse, a should-be reliable recipe source that isn't: Baking tends to be particularly vulnerable, when it comes to recipe glitches, since the complex physical chemistry often only works within narrow parameters.

I'm standing by, sort of 'on call', assisting my boyfriend's mother ('I.', who is very far from being any sort of fool, and has several decades of bread-baking behind her) with the Øland-wheat bread recipe from Claus Meyer's Meyers bageri ('Meyer's bakery', no English translation available), and waiting on the results.

When I saw the dough – far wetter than what I get with a no-knead bread recipe – I assumed it was going to be baked in a container of some sort, and asked what she was going to use. My Danish is still far from perfect, so when she explained that the recipe calls for baking it on a stone, I thought I misunderstood. I asked my questions while watching her proceeded to the step that calls for kneading the dough. Fortunately, this was done on a silicon rolling mat, enabling us to corral most of the dough and use the mat as a funnel to pour it back into the bowl. Undaunted, she gave up on the kneading, but did heat the stone in the oven, flour a baking peal, and pour a small puddle of dough onto it, which she then scraped onto the stone (the result is damn tasty, even if it is only the thickness of naan).

She's decided to bake the rest in some sort of container, after all.

I. is convinced she must have done something wrong, although she followed the recipe to the word; the possibility that the recipe may be at fault just seems inconsistent with what should be a reliable source (Meyer's bread is famous throughout Denmark). I think it's just an unreliable work, since this isn't the first recipe from it that is not working out, and am bewildered by her insistence that she's at fault.

Is this so common? Time and experience have made a sceptic of me, and if proportions or consistency seem off, I start to tinker and make notes.

How implicitly do you trust recipes, and has this changed over time? Do you have a 'But I followed the recipe!' tale to tell?

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I always make a small batch first to test the waters, because I've been burned by not-so-hot recipes too many times.

The one that still gets me is the first time I attempted sourdough baguette. I can't even remember where the recipe was from, but I do recall eventually giving up on it after extensive tinkering. The book's photos showed a smooth super-elastic dough, and what I got, following it to the letter, was more closely akin to a rock.

[JeanneCake]

Recipe errors can happen in proofreading, editing, etc; does the author have a website? Perhaps there's a corrections page that might provide a clue; or call the bakery and ask them. Rose Levy Beranbaum has a list of errors from all of her books on her website/blog; mistakes happen. Maybe the thought that a cookbook author would not provide a reliable working recipe is really foreign to Danish culture?

What does she think she did wrong?

[Mjx]

I always make a small batch first to test the waters, because I've been burned by not-so-hot recipes too many times.

The one that still gets me is the first time I attempted sourdough baguette. I can't even remember where the recipe was from, but I do recall eventually giving up on it after extensive tinkering. The book's photos showed a smooth super-elastic dough, and what I got, following it to the letter, was more closely akin to a rock.

Just out of curiosity, at what point did you start thinking that the problem might be with the recipe?

Recipe errors can happen in proofreading, editing, etc; does the author have a website? Perhaps there's a corrections page that might provide a clue; or call the bakery and ask them. Rose Levy Beranbaum has a list of errors from all of her books on her website/blog; mistakes happen. Maybe the thought that a cookbook author would not provide a reliable working recipe is really foreign to Danish culture?

What does she think she did wrong?

I haven't seen a corrections/errata page, but Berenbaum is unusually conscientious, so the lack of such a followup on Meyer's part isn't surprising. I don't think there is a is cultural element at work, however; Danes aren't that impressed by supposed authority.

As a copyeditor, I know how haywire things can go between initial conception and printed result, so the presence of errors doesn't surprise me.

What I'm really wondering about is the reason that people often just follow a recipe, even if the evidence in front of them suggests that something is distinctly wrong.

Funny thing is, when I asked her what she thought she did wrong, she said she didn't know, but it must have been something!

[LovesGenoise]

Both the protein content and the fineness of the grind can have a big effect on the amount of water a flour can absorb in a bread recipe, but if your MIL is a long-time bread maker she probably knows this and used the flour listed. And if she's Danish, she was probably weighing ingredients, so it does sound like it could be a mistake with the recipe.

I agree with Jeanne, all cookbooks have errors, the most responsible authors publish corrections.

I think a baker's response to a failed recipe is at least in part an indication of their personality- e.g., some people leap to the conclusion that the recipe is wrong when they, themselves have made the mistake, while others assume the written word is correct and they are the onee at fault. Similar to tipping- some people tip variably according to service, but many people, perhaps most, tip a standard amount for a very wide range of service levels. Some people are generous tippers by nature, and some bakers never think to blame others for less than perfect results.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I always make a small batch first to test the waters, because I've been burned by not-so-hot recipes too many times.

The one that still gets me is the first time I attempted sourdough baguette. I can't even remember where the recipe was from, but I do recall eventually giving up on it after extensive tinkering. The book's photos showed a smooth super-elastic dough, and what I got, following it to the letter, was more closely akin to a rock.

Just out of curiosity, at what point did you start thinking that the problem might be with the recipe?

When I got the same result the second time 'round with no tinkering. I was using weighed flour, I had prepared my started in the manner reccomended by the book where the baguette recipe was, and I used volumetric cylinders to measure the liquids. So, I was quite sure that I wasn't off on the ingredients side, and I knew enough about bread to know when I was at fault vs. when it was the recipe. (I have other stories about recipes that are just fine and me being non copos mentos in the kitchen.)

I think that what happened, at least partially, was that the recipe was developed for a humid coastal town somewhere. Things work very differently in the high deserts of the world - for one, my flour is a whole heck of a lot drier. Sourdough also seems to behave oddly up here in the rare air.

[andiesenji]

I've discovered that many times the recipes are transcribed for printing by people who know nothing about baking and don't recognize errors and then to compound it, the proofreader also does not check it against the original to see if any ingredient is missing or the measurements are mis-labeled.

I had one baking book with a recipe for 'potato' bread that had no mention of potatoes in the list of ingredients but instructions to "add the potatoes" in the method.

I also had a translated baking book that had flour listed as 1.5 "cup" when it should have been 1.5 liter.

If it doesn't look right, too dry or too wet, I check with known reliable recipes to see how similar the amounts and ratios are.

[Viktoria]

Last year for Christmas my in-laws gave me a book called "The Food Stylist's Handbook" because they thought it would have some food photography tips, which was something I was interested in at the time. It turned out to be a very practical and detailed book about food styling as a business. It is a well written book, filled with little behind the scenes anecdotes.

In one of the anecdotes the author tells about working on the photography for a cookbook and working on attempting a particular cake recipe. They tried several times to get the recipe to make a decent looking cake, but couldn't. So in the end they went and got a box cake mix and faked it. The author contacted them and said something along the lines of "Wow, it turned out so beautifully. I can never get it to look as nice when I make it..." or something similar.

I'll never looks at cookbook photos or cooking shows the same way again.

Especially after I heard Paula Dean say in one of her shows that she was making a recipe out of her latest cookbook. She'd never made it before, so she was delighted that it tasted good...

edited to make a sentence make actual sense.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Viktoria (log)

[andiesenji]

Last year for Christmas my in-laws gave me a book called "The Food Stylist's Handbook" because they thought it would have some food photography tips, which was something I was interested in at the time. It turned out to be a very practical and detailed book about food styling as a business. It is a well written book, filled with little behind the scenes anecdotes.

In one of the anecdotes the author tells about working on the photography for a cookbook and working on attempting a particular cake recipe. They tried several times to get the recipe to make a decent looking cake, but couldn't. So in the end they went and got a box cake mix and faked it. The author contacted them and said something along the lines of "Wow, it turned out so beautifully. I can never get it to look as nice when I make it..." or something similar.

I'll never looks at cookbook photos or cooking shows the same way again.

Especially after I heard Paula Dean say in one of her shows that she was making a recipe out of her latest cookbook. She'd never made it before, so she was delighted that it tasted good...

edited to make a sentence make actual sense.

That's the difference between a purely "celebrity" cook and one who is truly involved and tests every recipe that goes into the cookbook to which they attach their name.

Julia Child was one who tested every recipe in her earlier cookbooks or made sure that the later ones, done with other chefs, had all the recipes tested by a knowledgeable cook or baker.

She refused to lend her name to quite a number of cookbooks offered to her over the decades of her prominence.

[Isabelle Prescott]

By searching Google re Claus Meyers, I found this video on shaping wet dough.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Meyersmad#p/a/u/0/cIIjV6s-0cA

Did you boyfriend's mother have dough that looked similar to this or was it wetter?

[Mjx]

By searching Google re Claus Meyers, I found this video on shaping wet dough.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Meyersmad#p/a/u/0/cIIjV6s-0cA

Did you boyfriend's mother have dough that looked similar to this or was it wetter?

Much wetter! Properly speaking, her dough wasn't dough, it was batter. It's clear the recipe is simply a bit buggy (not sure how your Danish is, but the online comments indicate that this is the case), but that's not what interests me most.

In fact, the bread was just an example.

What interests me is how people react to recipes, when there are indications that if followed, the result is not going to be what is promised.

For example, my boyfriend's brother also made this bread, but when he saw that the dough was a liquid, added flour enough for it to at least slightly hold its form.

Do you start tweaking recipes, when they show signs of falling short of being reliable?

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Funny you should ask that, Michaela. I actually have recipes that have tweaking notes at the bottom - to the effect that "if this comes out seeming too batter-ish, add more of x flour" or "add water but never milk if it's too short a dough."

I do tend to tweak on the go if the recipe seems to be going sideways on me, and I try to keep notes of what I did. Usually right on the recipe, which occasionally shocks my mother, who would never think of writing in her cookbooks.

[Mjx]

Funny you should ask that, Michaela. I actually have recipes that have tweaking notes at the bottom - to the effect that "if this comes out seeming too batter-ish, add more of x flour" or "add water but never milk if it's too short a dough."

I do tend to tweak on the go if the recipe seems to be going sideways on me, and I try to keep notes of what I did. Usually right on the recipe, which occasionally shocks my mother, who would never think of writing in her cookbooks.

That sounds really familiar. With a lot of recipes, I've run a line along the margin of entire paragraphs, and noted that the indicated procedure won't work with the ingredients/equipment in Italy or Denmark, and another must used instead.

[KarenDW]

I do tend to tweak on the go if the recipe seems to be going sideways on me, and I try to keep notes of what I did. Usually right on the recipe, which occasionally shocks my mother, who would never think of writing in her cookbooks.

My mother would also be appalled. On the other hand, where ELSE would one make these notations? I also make note of successful variations right on the recipe page.

[&roid]

I remember making one of Jamie Oliver's roast veg recipes a while ago, it called for a whole bottle of balsamic vinegar, he even mentions the seemingly large amount and says to "trust him". I did. It was rubbish. Taught me to trust myself a bit more though, so not entirely wasted.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I do tend to tweak on the go if the recipe seems to be going sideways on me, and I try to keep notes of what I did. Usually right on the recipe, which occasionally shocks my mother, who would never think of writing in her cookbooks.

My mother would also be appalled. On the other hand, where ELSE would one make these notations? I also make note of successful variations right on the recipe page.

Mom will laboriously copy out the recipe onto a piece of A5 paper (we have packs of it just for this exact reason), then add her notes at the bottom of the copy. I've got a binder or two filled with her rectified recipes, but it's frustrating because she won't even put a postit flag into the cookbook of origin to indicate that one has to go to the binder. Hence my preference for direct notation. They're my cookbooks, and I see no reason not to correct them directly.

[Kerry Beal]

Yes, one can write in one's own cookbooks - but it must be in pencil! Even my mother did that!

[Panaderia Canadiense]

We also have a rule in the house that even I obey - nobody writes in cookbooks published before 1960. This means that while the Joy is full of notes, the 1921 Purity Cookbook bears only the cooking stains and notes that Gran left in it.

[Norm Matthews]

I never measure flour in a bread recipe anymore. It is nice to know how much was used in the recipe but I almost always end up using less. I add the flour to all the other ingredients in the KitchenAid mixer a little at a time until it looks right. In other words just when it stops sticking to the bowl. then I knead in any extra flour or make it softer by kneading it with water on my hands, going by feel and what I know a bread dough should feel like. I have followed recipes that measure by cup and by grams or ounces and it always comes down to what is the best amount for that batch on that day. The brand of flour and type of flour can make a difference too.

I once gave a recipe to a friend from The Grand Central Baking Book. The book is by professional bakers in Seattle and lists the ingredients both by weight and by volume, and he refused to make it. He said it was wrong because his idea of how much a cup of flour should weigh was different from what the book listed. He never measured flour by the cup and the weight the book said was in a cup was different from his preconceived notions. He would not even make it with his idea of what a cup should weigh.

It was not an error in that recipe because the book was consistent in weight/volume of flour throughout the entire cookbook.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Norm Matthews (log)

[sheetz]

I don't trust cookbooks much anymore. The great thing about the internet is the explosion of cooking forums and blogs where I can almost always find a recipe that somebody has tried and that actually works. Plus it's often the case that someone is available to answer questions should any problems arise.

[pastrygirl]

I don't trust cookbooks much anymore. The great thing about the internet is the explosion of cooking forums and blogs where I can almost always find a recipe that somebody has tried and that actually works. Plus it's often the case that someone is available to answer questions should any problems arise.

That's funny, I don't trust the vast majority of recipes on the internet. So much wrong "information" and how do you know whether you can trust peoples' taste? I only trust epicurious and egullet.

[sheetz]

I don't trust cookbooks much anymore. The great thing about the internet is the explosion of cooking forums and blogs where I can almost always find a recipe that somebody has tried and that actually works. Plus it's often the case that someone is available to answer questions should any problems arise.

That's funny, I don't trust the vast majority of recipes on the internet. So much wrong "information" and how do you know whether you can trust peoples' taste? I only trust epicurious and egullet.

There's a difference between recipe sites and cooking blogs/forums. I don't generally trust recipe sites, including epicurious, but I do have more trust in actual cooking blogs and forums, of which egullet is merely one. Other good forums/blogs would include The Fresh Loaf and Real Baking with Rose. I also like a lot of the articles on Serious Eats.

As for trusting other people's tastes, that's always going to be an issue no matter where you go.

Edited November 28, 2011 by sheetz (log)

[qrn]

I have a bread recipe that I developed over the years, I weigh everything,to the gram,including the liquids,and probably due to a varying moisture level in the flour I end up adding a tablespoon of flour or water"to make it right"I buy flour 2, 50 pound bags at a time,so it takes a few months to use em up,probably the reason for the variation,even though they are in sealed plastic barrels...

Bud