Cooking For Dummies...

[Jaymes]

I feel all kind of Stepfordy.

I think you have some unresolved issues with your mother. Who undoubtedly used it.

Hardly. Welsh with Italian parents.

Oh. Well. Nevermind.

[tighe]

I'm a big fan of all of Donna Hay's books and I think a few of them are particularly good for those who are new to cooking, but want to eat really good food. The three I'd reccomend are: 'The New Cook', 'New Food Fast' and 'Off the Shelf'. She does a good job of covering basic cooking techniques and presents a lot of very tasty, but straight forward recipes. I've given these books to 'non-cooking' friends and they've really liked them. Amazon has good previews of all of these books...

The New Cook

New Food Fast

Off the Shelf

[Jaymes]

I'm a big fan of all of Donna Hay's books...

New Food Fast

I would LOVE to be a fan of "New Food Fast."

I've been looking for it for several months, but have been told it's on "back order with the publisher."

Anyone know where I can find a copy???

[johnjohn]

I would recommend a book on knife skills (I think CIA has one) or taking a course. When I cook with people or watch them cook I'm always amazed at what knifes they use for certain tasks or how they make certain cuts. Knowing how to use knifes properly will increase your speed, make cooking easier, and more enjoyable.

johnjohn

[Jaymes]

I feel all kind of Stepfordy.

I think you have some unresolved issues with your mother. Who undoubtedly used it.

Hardly. Welsh with Italian parents.

Oh. Well. Nevermind.

Actually, Jin... Your experience/feelings remind me of a girlfriend I know who received a cookbook for her wedding, decades ago. I can't recall the name of the book, but it had something to do with fixing "good nutritous food" the "correct" way. I never owned that particular book, but it was in wide circulation and I saw it around in other people's kitchens fairly often.

It had a dull, boring, judgmental, know-it-all, even "preachy" tone, although it was comprehensive, exact, well-written, and inevitably "right."

My friend, Wendy, just HATED that book. She jammed it into the back of a drawer so she wouldn't have to look at it. But she was afraid to throw it away! She'd get stuck trying to make something, or want instructions on a preparation she couldn't find anywhere else, so she'd start pouting about it. She'd get into this real foul mood and deep funk that would go on for hours - sometimes days.

"I am soooo pissed," she'd say. "I'm going to have to consult 'the bitch.'"

She'd call me, "Do you have any idea how to make this because you're my last hope and if you don't know, I've got to ask 'the bitch.'"

And when she did ask 'the bitch,' she'd sit there with the book on her lap muttering and mumbling the whole time, and mimicking 'the bitch's' voice...."'just watch the temperature carefully or it will burn' like I don't KNOW that"; "but it's much better for you if you make it with half & half instead of cream"; and "it is actually possible to whip evaporated milk which has less than half the fat."

Then later, when I'd ask her how her souffle or whtever came out, and if "the bitch" knew, Wendy'd say, "Yes. Of course she did. I knew she would. I just hate her."

Poor Wendy - she's been asking 'the bitch' for some thirty years now. It's one of those love/hate kinda deals!!

Edited December 10, 2002 by Jaymes (log)

[tighe]

I'm a big fan of all of Donna Hay's books...

New Food Fast

I would LOVE to be a fan of "New Food Fast."

I've been looking for it for several months, but have been told it's on "back order with the publisher."

Anyone know where I can find a copy???

Wow, I had no idea this book was so scarce. I thought I could dig up a copy from somewhere on the web. The only place I found it is at Alibris, and there, used copies are selling at $30+. Guess I better stop spilling stuff on my copy.

[Dave the Cook]

I feel all kind of Stepfordy.

I think you have some unresolved issues with your mother. Who undoubtedly used it.

Hardly. Welsh with Italian parents.

edit:

Also, 1950s, long before it was published.

Actually, Jin, Joy was first published in...1931.

[Suzanne F]

I feel all kind of Stepfordy.

I think you have some unresolved issues with your mother. Who undoubtedly used it.

Hardly. Welsh with Italian parents.

edit:

Also, 1950s, long before it was published.

Actually, Jin, Joy was first published in...1931.

No, I think she means The Stepford Wives. That didn't come out until late 1960s/early 1970s?

Jin! All this time I thought you were of Asian heritage! Now I find that you have simply developed excellent taste over a lifetime. Well, you still fascinate me (in a foodie way, don't worry). In fact, mayhap you fascinate more now.

[Dave the Cook]

No, I think she means The Stepford Wives.  That didn't come out until late 1960s/early 1970s?

[ot]

For the record, Ira Levin, 1972. Not a great writer, but boy, he could devise some creepy plots: Rosemary's Baby, The Boys from Brazil, Deathtrap...

[/ot]

[Jinmyo]

Suzanne, to clarify: I'm not Welsh with Italian parents. My mother was Welsh with Italian parents.

As to Joy of Cooking. Bland. Can't read it. Glad some people have found it useful.

[Suvir Saran]

As to Joy of Cooking. Bland. Can't read it. Glad some people have found it useful.

Are you saying things for me again?

I cannot agree more.

[mixmaster b]

I'm a big fan of all of Donna Hay's books...

New Food Fast

I would LOVE to be a fan of "New Food Fast."

I've been looking for it for several months, but have been told it's on "back order with the publisher."

Anyone know where I can find a copy???

Wow, I had no idea this book was so scarce. I thought I could dig up a copy from somewhere on the web. The only place I found it is at Alibris, and there, used copies are selling at $30+. Guess I better stop spilling stuff on my copy.

I was told at my local booksellers (Cook's Library in LA) that Donna Hay has recently moved to a new publisher, and that New Food Fast will probably re-issued by said publisher.

Looking on Amazon, it looks like Whitecap was the old publisher and William Morrow is the new one.

I think I will forgo the collectors copies in hopes of a new edition!

[Vanessa]

Jinmyo - what about your father?

Couldn't agree more about 'Joy' - awful book except for one thing which I refer to regularly - that table somewhere in the middle which gives cup and weight equivalents for all kinds of ingredients. Most useful for non-Americans.

The Anne Willan book (called Reader's Digest Complete Guide to Cookery in the UK but I'm sure the same book) is an essential reference for basic French techniques - sauces, pastry doughs, court bouillons etc.

My introduction to Mexican cooking was via Diana Kennedy and I still think she is the best because she educates you well beyond just recipes.

v

[maggiethecat]

As to Joy of Cooking. Bland. Can't read it. Glad some people have found it useful.

Jin: As someone with your level of gourmetude(sp.?) I understand your feelings about "Joy." It can seem very 50's ish and, as you call it, bland. But I feel that, for a BEGINNER, it is an unintimidating and broad source text. And it ain't 50's "add a cup of mushroom soup" cooking...thank God! Just plain cooking. I still refer to it for, say, biscuits. And I ain't no Stepford doll. (Tho' sometimes it looks pretty good! )

And, of course, anything by St. Jacques. Quel homme! Quel chef!

[Dave the Cook]

As to Joy of Cooking. Bland. Can't read it. Glad some people have found it useful.

Jin: As someone with your level of gourmetude(sp.?) I understand your feelings about "Joy." It can seem very 50's ish and, as you call it, bland. But I feel that, for a BEGINNER, it is an unintimidating and broad source text. And it ain't 50's "add a cup of mushroom soup" cooking...thank God! Just plain cooking. I still refer to it for, say, biscuits. And I ain't no Stepford doll. (Tho' sometimes it looks pretty good! )

And, of course, anything by St. Jacques. Quel homme! Quel chef!

Well put, Maggie. Joy is still the go-to guide in my kitchen.

I of course have a slightly different take on Stepfordism.

[maggiethecat]

As to Joy of Cooking. Bland. Can't read it. Glad some people have found it useful.

Jin: As someone with your level of gourmetude(sp.?) I understand your feelings about "Joy." It can seem very 50's ish and, as you call it, bland. But I feel that, for a BEGINNER, it is an unintimidating and broad source text. And it ain't 50's "add a cup of mushroom soup" cooking...thank God! Just plain cooking. I still refer to it for, say, biscuits. And I ain't no Stepford doll. (Tho' sometimes it looks pretty good! )

And, of course, anything by St. Jacques. Quel homme! Quel chef!

Well put, Maggie. Joy is still the go-to guide in my kitchen.

I of course have a slightly different take on Stepfordism.

Er...Dave. I am afraid to ask, but I like you, so I will.

What is your take on Stepfordism? Paula Prentiss without too much on her mind?

[Dave the Cook]

Er...Dave.  I am afraid to ask, but I like you, so I will.

What is your take on Stepfordism?  Paula Prentiss without too much on her mind?

Well, this will teach me to think before writing.

First, let me say that if you made me choose between Paula Prentiss and Katherine Ross, I'd probably melt down.

Second, I have no problem with the politics of the movie The Stepford Wives, such as they are. Second, part B: I have a passel of feminist credentials, which I will be glad to detail for you upon request.

Third (and final, you'll be glad to hear), I don't think Levin wanted a political movie; he's a Storyteller. Politics is just another tool in the box for him. The screenwriter, William Goldman, is the best. So I guess it's the direction. I can't remember who it was; I only remember the factoid that he also directed one of my favorite British farces, The Wrong Box. Or maybe it was the times, which were ripe for the spin that got put on the movie, which should have been a creepy, cautionary tale rather than a polemic, and not a very well done one at that. It's what happens when story and character get put at the kids table so the Big Ideas can hold forth in the dining room. For whatever reason, the women are actually more appealing after their 'conversion.' Before they've been Stepforded, they're really, well, whiny. I kind of wanted something bad to happen to them.

Fourth (fooled ya): I haven't seen the movie in at least 20 years, so I may be full of it, as I often am. If so, blame it on poor memory.

[Jaymes]

As to Joy of Cooking. Bland. Can't read it. Glad some people have found it useful.

Jin: As someone with your level of gourmetude(sp.?) I understand your feelings about "Joy." It can seem very 50's ish and, as you call it, bland. But I feel that, for a BEGINNER, it is an unintimidating and broad source text. And it ain't 50's "add a cup of mushroom soup" cooking...thank God! Just plain cooking. I still refer to it for, say, biscuits.

I absolutely agree with Jin and Suvir that JOC is "bland."

I have a dictionary in my house. It's a big one, comprehensive, well-written, everything I need is there. It is not fun, or exciting. I don't sit down to "read" it. I'd even go to far as to say that it is "bland" (except for the naughty bits ).

But that dictionary IS an excellent reference resource.

And as for "reading" cookbooks, it's true I'd never curl up in a chair to leaf through Joy of Cooking while my imagination conjures up all the great dishes I can prepare. I don't "read" it the way I am enjoying reading "Seasons of My Heart," by Susanna Trilling, my very newest purchase.

But to me, anyway, just like my bland dictionary, the Joy of Cooking is a reference that I depend upon. To me (and I repeat, just "to me" and not necessarily for everyone) the Joy of Cooking is like having an encyclopedia of cooking handy. It's where I go when I am searching for the basics of some method, or perhaps a dish someone mentioned that I haven't heard of, etc.

I do think it's a good place for beginners to start, and I think it's a good reference source for most anyone to have on hand.

It is not the book that stirs my soul or sends my spirit soaring. That is why I suggested to 201 that he start off with at least three books.

One of them a good, basic, all-purpose, look-up-anything from "about apples" to "making a basic white sauce" to "zucchini" reference source/guide.

There are many of them around from which to choose. And 201, as well as others, may prefer a different one. But MY particular, personal choice to fill that spot in my cooking reference library is Joy of Cooking.

Edited December 11, 2002 by Jaymes (log)

[maggiethecat]

Er...Dave.  I am afraid to ask, but I like you, so I will.

What is your take on Stepfordism?  Paula Prentiss without too much on her mind?

the women are actually more appealing after their 'conversion.' Before they've been Stepforded, they're really, well, whiny. I kind of wanted something bad to happen to them.

Fourth (fooled ya): I haven't seen the movie in at least 20 years, so I may be full of it, as I often am. If so, blame it on poor memory.

Dave: Couldn't have put it better! But I too haven't seen the movie for twenty years.

"The Wrong Box." Wow. We love that movie so much we actually own a copy! Haven't watched it for a long time. Doesn't Peter Sellars use a kitty as a blotter?

Back on topic: Jaymes said it best, again. "Joy" is the basic, well-thumbed dictionary among shelves of prettier, better-written, more "important" cookbooks. Just scanning the shelves brings back personal history. Did we actually cook from Michel Guerard those many years ago. Yes, I think. Can't remember what.

[Dave the Cook]

Doesn't Peter Sellars use a kitty as a blotter?

Yes: "Strangely, I haven't had fur for a fortnight." (btw, you made me spit on my keyboard).

Back on topic: Jaymes said it best, again.  "Joy" is the basic, well-thumbed dictionary among shelves of prettier, better-written, more "important" cookbooks.  Just scanning the shelves brings back personal history.  Did we actually cook from Michel Guerard those many years ago.  Yes, I think.  Can't remember what.

Right. Not necessarily the best recipes, not the prettiest, not the most gracefully written or illustrated. Just the most used. I'm about to get my third copy. Shall we discuss the relative merits of the different editions? Or has that been done already?

[Jinmyo]

Larousse Gastronomic and Escoffier for my encyclopedias.

I think that Joy of Cooking as a standard reference (for some even an icon) is an American thing and naturally does not have a similiar place for the rest of us. I've lived in the U.S. and much of what people there find natural, obvious, standard, or at least trusted and trustworthy still passes me by. But then I find steak and kidney pie, smoked eel, unagi donburi, and suppli strike me as pretty standard fare so it's probably just me.

[Jaymes]

Larousse Gastronomic... for my encyclopedia

Jin -

Don't you find that a certain level of cooking sophistication/expertise is required in order to take full advantage of LG?

That was certainly my experience so many years ago when, as a beginning cook, I went out and bought one. As a novice, it was of limited value. After about four or five years of cooking and experimenting and learning, I then found it invaluable.

[Jim Dixon]

I think I read this in Sunday's NYT book section as a quote from the Zuni cookbook, but it was something along the lines of...

if you cook the same thing three times in one week, you'll learn more about cooking...(and I can't remember the rest of the comparison)

For somebody like 201 who wants to learn to cook better, I think this is the best advice. Pick something, and maybe something not too difficult, that looks good and make over and over. A roasted chicken might be a good start. DO the first one plain, the next time try stuffing some herbs under the skin, maybe brine another one, and play around with temperature and breast up vs breast down. After a few chickens, you'll know how to roast one.

It applies to both techniques and ingredients. I know that when something I haven't cooked much appeals to me, I'll cook it over and over in different ways until I figure out how it responds and which method I like best.

Jim

[cakewalk]

Pick something, and maybe something not too difficult, that looks good and make over and over.

I was doing this with risotto (although not three times a week). Still no expert, but this method is a good way to teach yourself how to make something. And it's easier to remember the differences between how it turned out this time and how it turned out last time.

[Jaymes]

Jim-

Excellent advice. And I do the same.