Herb Growing

[Karri]

I am on a mission to try and have the GM greenlight a project for me to set up a little herb garden on the hotel premises, and my question is this. Does anyone know what the average yield of a rosemary or parsley bush is?

Obviously depending on the size, etc. But for frame of reference I am on the Canary Islands with a constant +26 sunny weather, which should be optimal to most herbs? Please if anyone has any knowledge on the matter it would help me immensely, as I have to talk to her in a language only she understands, i.e. the bottom line and all that...

Thank you in advance to all who help.

P.S. Dreadfully sorry if this was posted in the wrong category...

[Doodad]

Herbs can be some of the easiest plants to grow, especially in your conditions. We have a kitchen garden every year and it is prolific. We cannot consume all the parsley, tarragon, basil and oregano it produces. So we blitz the remainder in the Fall and freeze in ice cube trays.

You mentioned rosemary. It can get very large, but is not the fastest grower. Since you typically take whole branches it replaces loss slower than some herbs. But, you can compensate by planting more. It is a very hardy plant.

I think you could do this and it would add an attractive feature to the hotel. Not sure on how large a volume you run, but I would bet there are some yield calculators online from some of the ag schools that could help you sway the boss.

[thock]

I envy you your rosemary growing conditions. Here, I have to treat it as an annual, or bring it inside.

Parsley, cilantro, dill, and others like that can be planted and will reseed themselves fairly well. Parsley is a biennial, so it will not reseed until the second year. It's notoriously difficult to start from seeds, though.

If you do a search on Google, you can probably come up with growing guides and average yields from various U.S. University Extension services. For instance, I typed "parsley average yield" into Yahoo's search engine, and the first hit was from the Purdue University Cooperative Extension. Naturally, they will be more focused on growing in their immediate area, but you can still get a good idea of what to expect and how to harvest for best results.

Another possible resource is GardenWeb's Herb Forum. You can search that forum, or the whole GardenWeb forum for information, or post questions.

Good luck on your project!

[MelissaH]

I was amazed a couple of years ago, visiting friends in Phoenix, to find rosemary bushes used as shrubs in a shopping complex. It smelled wonderful.

MelissaH

[andiesenji]

I would suggest that you contact the CIA in California

They have extensive herb gardens laid out in very attractive patches that are decorative as well as practical.

They should be able to give you excellent advice about how many plants you will need to support your kitchen.

I would say you are in a perfect location for almost every culinary herb. In fact, I have long desired a Canary Island Bay tree but they are much too tender for my climate, although the Laurel Nobilis does just fine after acclimation.

I use rosemary woody stems for skewers, as well as using the leaves for flavoring and some of mine are planted in a hedge and a few of the more upright varieties are in their own planters. They are all blooming now and the blooms are also lovely for flavoring.

Each mature bush (3-4 years old) will produce nearly a half bushel of "trimmings" every 3-4 months. It seems to grow more rapidly after "pruning" and does grow more rapidly during the spring and late fall.

I have 6 sage plants (Salvia Officinalis) because I use it for tea blends as well as for cooking.

When I was catering, I had twenty plants.

Thyme grows slowly and you will need more of these plants - I would suggest that you plant them in tiered pots because it is easier to keep the trailing stems clean this way.

I have extra large strawberry pots that have a dozen "pockets" each and I grow thyme in these and have new plants coming along in little pots so when I am ready to use a significant amount, I simply pullout the whole plant and replant one of the "babies" in that pocket.

I'm assuming that you will need larger amounts than just a sprig or two.

[dcarch]

Don't bother growing rosemary from seeds.

Not very easy.

Scallions, although not really a herb, very easy to grow.

dcarch

[ChrisTaylor]

I don't know what prices are like over your way, but down here the price for a packet of seeds is basically the same as a seedling. I wouldn't bother with seeds unless I wanted to grow something I couldn't find as a seedling. I'd do the same with chilli if I wanted to grow spices. Presumably you could buy mature rosemary plants and bay trees (which can grow very large, mind you, so if you have severe space restrictions you'll want to keep an eye on them).

EDIT

Just realised that seeds may be your only option if you want to avoid exorbitant shipping fees.

Edited February 26, 2011 by ChrisTaylor (log)

[Karri]

First of all, thank you very much everyone, I am afluster with the amount of attention this post has received... Yes, seeding was never a plan, since I can just aswell walk up the mountain and find rosemary and thyme growing everywhere, so I will just help myself to those when I have the time. But for the other ones you mentioned thock, the coriander and dill, I heard they were notoriously hard to grow, and attracted insects?

This has been a great help thank you all, I will start perusing the websites aforementioned and crunching the numbers for the General Manager.

[Chris Hennes]

My coriander grows itself, quite literally, I don't even have to plant seeds: just let it go to seed and dry out a while before cutting it down and harvesting the spice, it self-seeds quite nicely. The only trick is if you actually want the cilantro leaves from the plant, because it doesn't take heat well and goes to seed immediately when it's hot: no more cilantro at that point. I have not grown dill in a few years so I don't recall if I had any issues with it.

[helenjp]

Coriander...be careful where you plant this, if you have it in significant quantities! It can smell really nauseating as it grows, even to people who are happy to eat it in buckets with their food.

If you want to get really green, you could consider composting some of your green waste, as leafy herbs love compost!

[Karri]

Helenjp: Thanks for the advice, I was already thinking about planting somewhere near the hedgerows, not next to guests balconies, but thanks for the heads-up. And yes, the compost and everything is following my train of thought, but Spain is in quite bad shape right now economically, so it's baby steps, baby steps, baby steps...

[HungryC]

Dill is super easy to grow--a packet of "Mammoth" dill seeds will keep you going for years, as the plant sets seed heavily if allowed to flower. I'm still planting seeds I saved three or four years ago. Certain species of butterfly love dill...and the sight of butterflies visiting a nearly 5' tall flowering dill is quite lovely.

Baker Creek Heirloom seeds can provide you with a teriffic variety of culinary herbs: http://rareseeds.com/

Don't forget to grow some hot peppers, too...an essential part of a culinary "seasonings" garden, imho.

[Karri]

HungryC, I was thinking of going to the local gardening supply store, and I'm afraid they do not hold such a variety, atleast based on their website and my passable spanish, dill is dill is dill... If only there were some specialist stores with selections.

[HungryC]

From Baker Creek's website, on shipping internationally: "Orders for small seed packets are just charged $3.00 shipping. There is an extra shipping charge for heavy seeds and supplies: Beans, Peas, Soya, Sorghum, Corn, Legumes, Grains, Books and Supplies. We will bill your credit card for the actual shipping cost on bulk orders."

So for a measly 3 US dollars, you can order any of Baker's herb seeds, shipped to you in the Canary Islands. (Incidentally, I have more than a few Canary Islanders in my family tree; a bunch of Islenos settled in Louisiana in the colonial period.)

[dcarch]

Send for their printed catalog.

Amazing!

dcarch

Edited February 27, 2011 by dcarch (log)

[Karri]

Ah muy bien! Thank you very much HungryC and dcarch. This is very helpful, now I've got actual prices and I can make my figures more accurate, the General Manager hasn't a chance Thank you everyone, this has been a great help!

[technophile50]

Google "edible landscaping", then go talk to the people who maintain the grounds.

My wife was a Landscape Architect and convinced the local Mexican restaurant to put in this perennial herb garden instead of merely decorative plantings to fulfill their greenscaping building code requirement when they expanded. The overgrown plant on the corner is Rosemary.

A good resource might be these folks.

[Karri]

Did some enquiries and found out that the landscaping company is outsourced and the GM holds no sway over these warriors... But it seems very likely that I will get my own little plot of land that I may experiment on.

PS. Placed order for the Baker Creek catalogue, can't wait for it to arrive.

[andiesenji]

Also consider container gardening. You can get a lot of plants into a fairly restricted area and it is easier to control feeding and watering - and much easier to control weeds and invasion by the more vigorous plants.

Absolutely plant any mints in containers, otherwise they will migrate everywhere.

Dill and fennel have to be kept well separated or they will cross pollinate and new seedlings will not be "pure" and fennel seems to take over.

Ever here where winter temps can get down into the teens (Fahrenheit), fennel plants can be cut back in the fall and they come back in the very early spring without need to replant. This is the plant in which the fronds, seeds and pollen is used.

Of course Florence fennel where the entire bulb is used, needs to be planted annually.

Edited February 27, 2011 by andiesenji (log)

[Karri]

Thanks a bunch, this is all new information to me. I have had some experience, but I have always been fascinated by the intricasies of a well kempt garden plot. I've been looking at the different herbs and such available and am starting to formulate an idea as to how to proceed. And yes, I've also been thinking about sinking plastic buckets in to the ground so I can keep control of where the roots can and can't go. But please tell me about bolting... Is it possible to somehow delay it, or once a herb plant wants to flower nothing can stop it?

[BarbaraY]

I try to keep blossoms pinched off herbs like basil so I can continue to use them all summer. If let go they will bolt for sure. I've not had much luck doing this with parsley.

I keep a pot full of chives going year round although it dies bake in the early winter but is starting to sprout again already.

Rosemary grows year round here so I always have more than enough. The bush is due for a good pruning.

[Karri]

BarbaraY: I read that it affects the taste somehow? Atleast in coriander it would seem... Have you noticed anything like this in the basil, parsley?

[thock]

Cilantro/coriander is particularly heat-sensitive, so will bolt quickly when it thinks it's too hot. A lot of people let it reseed itself for that reason, so that they can have smaller plants which are shaded by the adult plants.

[Blether]

BarbaraY: I read that it affects the taste somehow? Atleast in coriander it would seem... Have you noticed anything like this in the basil, parsley?

Both Parsley and basil taste stronger (not in a good way) after bolting. Parsley's OK, because for its first year you can rely on it, so just alternate plants. Basil, you do have to pinch off the flower buds as BarbaraY says. Coriander, I gave up on after reading that you pretty much have to plant fresh every two weeks because of it going to seed.

Chillis will do very well where you are. I envy you the wild thyme; lemon thyme is good to have to hand too, particularly for the likes of seafood gremolata.

[andiesenji]

Cilantro/coriander is particularly heat-sensitive, so will bolt quickly when it thinks it's too hot. A lot of people let it reseed itself for that reason, so that they can have smaller plants which are shaded by the adult plants.

I live in the high desert and I grow this and other tender herbs (chervil) in full shade and I double pot them - that is, the pot that holds the plant is inside a larger terracotta pot surrounded by sand that gets soaked with water. This allows evaporation of the moisture and keeps the roots of the plants cool during our very hot summers.

I also protect them from the hot summer winds but perhaps you won't have that problem.

I use "portable" shade cloth screens, aligned to block the winds, which usually come out of the west.