Pork Parts: The Topic

[Chris Amirault]

So I made this Rick Bayless sous vide carnitas recipe, which turned out great except it didn't hold together in the skillet when I browned it. Trying to figure out what went wrong, I wondered whether the butcher gave me butt instead of shoulder.

Then I started wondering, "What's the difference between butt and shoulder?"

Then I got really confused. "Is Boston butt the same as butt? What's the difference between picnic shoulder and shoulder? Is this all regional and cultural jingoism?"

I need help. What are the differences between these cuts? Are there differing proportions of certain types of meat, connective tissue, and so on in them? And, while we're at it, are others confused about, say, baby back vs St. Louis ribs?

[vice]

Great topic. This diagram really helped me understand the many vagaries of pork ribs. Much more detail given here.

[runwestierun]

The pork shoulder roast goes from about the pig ear to the top of the front leg. The top part is the largest part, that's the boston butt, the butt, or the shoulder. The bottom part, the part that stops at the top of the leg, is the picnic. It's a little more than half the size of the butt.

I don't know why they call it a butt. Here'sa good picture of the two:

http://www.dizzypigbbq.com/images/RecipeImages/skinned.jpg

[FrogPrincesse]

Chris,

As runwestierun just explained, "butt" = shoulder, with the picnic shoulder being the lower part, and the Boston butt the upper part of the shoulder (or epaule and echine in French, respectively if I am getting this right). I am also having a hard time getting familiar with the various meat cuts and, being a French native, the US terminology (not that I was an expert in France).

Recently I did some research on pork shoulder in preparation for a rillette recipe. I found a useful diagram in Alton Brown's I Am Just Here For The Food, and a detailed discussion of pork shoulder in Molly Steven's All About Braising (page 353) that I found very helpful. Molly says both cuts are appropriate for a braise, but she has a preference for the Boston butt which has a lower ratio of bone to meat.

[FrogPrincesse]

Oh and about the meat falling apart, that is absolutely expected! Carnitas have a texture very similar to pulled pork. Your rendition looks great and very authentic!

[Chris Amirault]

The pork shoulder roast goes from about the pig ear to the top of the front leg. The top part is the largest part, that's the boston butt, the butt, or the shoulder.

As runwestierun just explained, "butt" = shoulder, with the picnic shoulder being the lower part, and the Boston butt the upper part of the shoulder (or epaule and echine in French, respectively if I am getting this right).

So who's right? Are these terms -- Boston butt, butt, and shoulder -- interchangeable, or do they refer to different parts -- butt = shoulder, but Boston butt is a part of the shoulder/butt?

[runwestierun]

Sorry for not being clear, Chris. The whole roast (maybe 15 lbs.) is called a "shoulder roast". The part that is closest to the leg is called the "picnic" or "picnic shoulder" almost always. The higher part is called the "boston butt", the "butt", or occasionally just "shoulder" (without the word "roast") interchangeably. But usually, the top part will have the word "butt" in it and the bottom part will have the word "picnic" in it.

Here's a diagram: http://www.90meat.com/porkDiagram.gif

[percival]

A butt is a cask. As for Boston butt, probably how they were cut and stored back in the day. Say, salted and put in a cask to ship about the colonies. All are the same: shoulder cuts.

[Chris Amirault]

But they're not all the same, it seems. If I read runwestierun's post correctly --

The part that is closest to the leg is called the "picnic" or "picnic shoulder" almost always. The higher part is called the "boston butt", the "butt", or occasionally just "shoulder" (without the word "roast") interchangeably. But usually, the top part will have the word "butt" in it and the bottom part will have the word "picnic" in it.

-- the picnic has longer muscles with more connective tissue, and the butt will have thicker clots of muscle. For someone looking to maximize collagen, the picnic is the one you want.

[nolnacs]

The picnic shoulder will also usually have some skin on it while the shoulder but does not. Skin is a big source of collagen and that might have helped keep your sous vide carnitas together.

[Doodad]

I always figured it was called a butt because when cut it does resemble a barrel or cask.

[runwestierun]

But they're not all the same, it seems. If I read runwestierun's post correctly --

The part that is closest to the leg is called the "picnic" or "picnic shoulder" almost always. The higher part is called the "boston butt", the "butt", or occasionally just "shoulder" (without the word "roast") interchangeably. But usually, the top part will have the word "butt" in it and the bottom part will have the word "picnic" in it.

-- the picnic has longer muscles with more connective tissue, and the butt will have thicker clots of muscle. For someone looking to maximize collagen, the picnic is the one you want.

There is alot of collagen in both. I do believe there is more in the picnic, but almost too much, because sometimes the meat can feel a little slimy when it's done.

I cook alot of pork shoulder. When I go to the wholesaler, I usually have these to choose from, cryovaced in packs of 2:

Bone-in butt

Boneless butt

Bone-in picnic

Boneless picnic

And that is the order I choose them in. If I can get all bone-in butt I am the happiest. I like the flavor of the meat in the butt better, I like the clots of muscle, and I like the extra flavor the bone imparts. There is plenty of collagen and fat and it is absolutely luxurious when cooked right. It is the undervalued bargain meat cut of the century.

Competition BBQers generally choose the bone-in boston butt to cook for pulled pork.

[DerekW]

Chris, if you have not already done so, perhaps check out the Pork myology site and have a look at the relevant [NAMP numbered] sub-primals. The relationship between the shoulder cuts can be seen in 3D as well as technically described.

[ScottyBoy]

which turned out great except it didn't hold together in the skillet when I browned it. Trying to figure out what went wrong, I wondered whether the butcher gave me butt instead of shoulder.

When I cooked and pressed my shoulder at the same time and temp, it came out looking totally different. I might have used more lard than you and it looks like I shredded into much smaller pieces. It stayed in a perfect cube while searing all sides and was meltingly delicious.

Edit: Ah Hah! I've got it from reading your original post. You poured the liquid from the bag in with the shredded pork. You see at the rivers of gelatin running through, all that's going to do is melt and make the chunks fall apart. you want to wipe any of the bag drippings off the pork before you shred it. Should be just a mix of fat and meat, then it will stay together.

Edited September 16, 2010 by ScottyBoy (log)

[Peter the eater]

Chris, if you have not already done so, perhaps check out the Pork myology site and have a look at the relevant [NAMP numbered] sub-primals. The relationship between the shoulder cuts can be seen in 3D as well as technically described.

That's an excellent link, thanks DerekW. There's a similar one for beef, also from the U of N Lincoln.

If there are models like these for other food mammals, birds or fish I'd love to know.