Dead Recipes

[Adam Balic]

I thought that it may be interesting to post some recipes from the past couple of thousand years.

First up is a recipe published in 1829 by Med Dodds (UK).

"Mullagatawny or Curry-Soup, as made in India

Have ready pounded and sifted an ounce of coriander seeds, the third of an ounce of cassia, three drachms of black, and two of cayenne pepper, and a quarter of an ounce of China turmerick;mix them well. This quantity will do either for two chickens, a large fowl or three pounds of meat. Cut down the meat into small pieces, let them boil slowly for half-hour in two quarts of water; then put in four onions and three cloves of garlick shred and fried in two ounces of butter. Mix down the seasonings with a little of the broth and rice flour, and strain them into a stew pan, which must simmer till the soup is smooth and thick as cream. When it is within five minutes of being finished, add lemon or citric acid in the same proportion. Serve the meat and soup in a tureen; boiled rice in a hot water dish."

Simon or Suvir - does this recipe in any way resemble an India dish? The variety of spices used seems to be wided then used in the modern version of this dish and note that the meat is served with the dish, along with rice. Could it be that originally it was an India dish one pot dish, which for British tastes was seperated into a soup and meat course?

Edited November 26, 2002 by Adam Balic (log)

[Simon Majumdar]

While I think that this is a wonderful dish when prepared properly, I do think that its roots ( from the date of the recipe ) are found in the East India company and The Raj rather than any particular India Cuisine of the time.

Like all Ex-pats there is a tendency to take the cuisine from home and blend with the available ingredients abroad. The British were mnasters of this as they, at the point in time of the recipe, governed over 1/4 of the Globe ( I still recall having a map when I very first started school that had all the "British" areas in pink )

This recipe seems to have all the hallmarks of that, echoing the Georgian and Victorian passion for soups. I suspect it was made for the Sahib by one of his cooks using the available ingredients.

Also, don't forget that in 1829 India was still a collection of vastly disparate states with very diofferent cusines, so there is even more danger referring to an "Indian" dish than there is now

S

[Adam Balic]

Oh yes, thank you for reminding me of Indian's history - I forgot about the seperate statehood of the regions at that time.

I agree, the dish in question is unlikely to be an authentic regional dish, but if you apply that criteria, then the dishes created by Escoffier for the Prince Regent were not French either (or the River Cafe "Italian" ). The soup may very well have been created for the Sahib, using local ingredients, but how did it get to that point, without any reference to the indigenous cuisine? I know of certain cooks who add spice/chilli to almost any dish that they cook (otherwise it tastes bland apparently), could a possibility be that a indigenous cook "spiced-up" a "bland" British soup to suit their tastes, rather then a British cook using local ingridients?

Australia is still Pink, especially Sydney.

[Simon Majumdar]

Count the History lesson as my Christmas gift to you. Unless of course I get to be your secret Santa at the Xmas bash in which case your wish to own a brand new shiny pair of nipple clamps may well come true.

Cookery is such a fluid thing I am not sure asking such formal questions is valid. The dish could have originated in many ways. A Sahib could have asked his cook to produce a soup and the cook used the ingredients and knowledge he had and came up with this OR an Ex Pat army cook could have tried to recreate a soup from blighty and used ingredients at hand. Some dishes can be traced back to particular events. I know there are some dishes that originated at the Tolly Club and were created for the visit of a dignitary ( in the same way that Peach Melba was created )

The soup itself is not Indian ( you are not arguing it is, of course ) but that does not mean that it is not very good when well made. It also does not mean that it has not become part of many menus throughout India. Cuisine is like a sponge stuff flows out and gets absorbed. India has taken in many things from it colonial past ( Chilli and vinegar from the Portugese for example and, tomatoes from, I believe, China ) and it has contributed much not just in the proliferation of restaurants but in the understanding of the effect a subtle use of spicing can have on cooking

I am one of those who feel that most dishes whatever their provenance can benefit from the use of chilli, not for heat but to create a depth of flavour and ignite the existing tastes.

S

[J Acord]

Regarding historic recipes. I wonder if anyone can point me in the direction of any cook books containing recipes by Careme? Since my french is below-par, it would be more helpful if the books were english translations.

It has always been a desire of mine to try and recreate some of his artistic pastry masterpieces.

Thanks

John

[Adam Balic]

Cookery is such a fluid thing I am not sure asking such formal questions is valid.

Exactly.

What is it that gives a particular cuisine it's "distinctiveness" then? Is there in particular point in damning a particular dish/restuarant etc because it isn't "authentic"? Why is it so popular to damn "fushion" cuisine, when clearly are cuisine is dynamic, not static, therefore fusion of various cooking traditions is an intergral part of most cooking traditions?

Day-Glow, Xtra-mansize, butt plug being wrapped in preparation of you secret santa.

[Simon Majumdar]

NO

There is a big difference between the organic development of a dish which combines the knowledge and understanding of two or more cuisines and the slapping of lemongrass with a piece of lamb because the chef went backpacking after college

Vibrating one, Natch?

S

[Kikujiro]

Day-Glow, Xtra-mansize, butt plug being wrapped in preparation of you secret santa.

Surely some mistake. The guide price for the Secret Santas is £5 whereas the model you refer to, even if bought wholesale, would cost at least ...

um, edit. edit. edit. damn.

[Adam Balic]

NO

There is a big difference between the organic development of a dish which combines the knowledge and understanding of two or more cuisines and the slapping of lemongrass with a piece of lamb because the chef went backpacking after college

Vibrating one, Natch?

S

What is it about lemon-grass that makes it so offensive when used outside a South-East Asian context I wonder?

So you are saying that to get a fushion of cuisines that results in a positive product you either have to approach it from the point of view of an out growth of "organic development" or you have to have a great depth of knowledge/perception of what the synergy between to different cultural tradions/ingredients etc will be? Doesn't leave much room for the majority of people.

Kinda, works like a mobile-phone, as it has a radio receiver, you dial plug specific number, you get the business.

[Simon Majumdar]

So you are saying that to get a fushion of cuisines that results in a positive product you either have to approach it from the point of view of an out growth of "organic development" or you have to have a great depth of knowledge/perception of what the synergy between to different cultural tradions/ingredients etc  will be? Doesn't leave much room for the majority of people.

Kinda, works like a mobile-phone, as it has a radio receiver, you dial plug specific number, you get the business.

yes that is exactly what I am saying.

An amateur can try and cook fusion or a chef can slap down something with somethng else. it don't make it right. Before you can extemporise, you have to know the basics. jazz would be the perfect example. to play free form jazz you have to exceptionally technically proficient. You have to understand the parameters and the structures before you can go out and play around. The same is true of fusion. what people come up with is coarse and vulgar. It displays the hubris of those who think one can run before one can walk.

Fusion per se is not a sin, but fusion as it is executed in just about every restaurant I have ever tried is

Will it play showtunes?

S

[Adam Balic]

Will it play showtunes?

Certainement.

[Suzanne F]

Um ... just wanted to mention 2 favorite books:

The Raj at Table: A Culinary History of the British in India by David Burton (Faber and Faber, 1993) and

Curries and Bugles: A Cookbook of the British Raj by Jennifer Brennan (Viking, 1990)

Carry on.

[=Mark]

I am one of those who feel that most dishes whatever their provenance can benefit from the use of chilli, not for heat but to create a depth of flavour and ignite the existing tastes.

S

Since the chile pepper was not introduced to the Indian subcontinent until the 16th century it can be argued that any dishes using them could not be considered "authentic."

[maggiethecat]

Here's a recipe from Lady Shaftesbury's Receipt Book for Clear Mulligatawny Soup. She began writing down recipes in 1855, but the recipe (according) to Jane Grigson) is probably frm Dr. Kitchiner's "The Cook's Oracle" of 1817.

6 large chopped onions

4 oz. butter

2 large T. curry powder

3 pts. good stock

1 1/2 lb. veal or rabbit or boiling fowl

Cook the onions in butter until soft and light brown. Add the curry powder, cook for two minutes, stirring constantly. Add stock. Chop the meat and add it and its bones. Bring to boil and simmer for at least an hour. Skim occasionally. Strain through cheesecloth, adjust for salt and serve with rice.

The good Doctor's recipe for curry powder: (Jane says to whizz to a powder)

3 rounded t. coriander

3 level t. ground tumeric

1 rounded t. black peppercorns

1 rounded t. black mustard seeds

1 level t. ground ginger

1/2 t. cardamon seeds

1/4 t. cayenne

1/4 t. cumin

Gentlemen, what think you of the Victorian version, and especially the 1817 curry powder? I've never had Milligatawny so am not qualified to offer an opinion.

The book, which I love, is "Food With the Famous, offering the recipes of , among others, John Evelyn (check out his salad calendar!) Sydney Smith, Thomas Jefferson, Zola and Dumas.

I am not participating in the Secret Santa, thanks!

[Adam Balic]

This yet another Mulligatawny recipe. This time from:

Mrs A.B. Marshall's "Larger Cookery Book of Extra Recipes", published in 1891. (Mrs Marshall ran a cookery school in London and was a poncy Mrs Beeton).

Potage Muuagatawny

Take six large peeled and finely sliced onions, four washed and dried mushrooms, two large tomatoes, three large sour apples or a small handful of sour gooseberries; a bunch of herbs (thyme, parsley and bayleaf) and a good plateful of any nice cooked or raw game or poultry bones, or a cut up chicken; fry these together in a stewpan for fifteen minutes in two ounces of butter, add juice of one large lemon, two red chillies pounded, 1 1/2 Tbsp of curry powder, a desert spoon of tamarinds, a saltspoon of ground ginger and two ounces of creme de Riz;cover this with three quarts of good flavoured stock make from cooked meat bones; replace pan on stove, bring contents genty to boil on the side of the stove for about one and a half hours, occasionally skimming. When cooked removed meat from bones, sieve out stock pound meat and veg. mix back with stock and strain this through a tammy (fine cloth). Serve with plainly boiled rice.

I think that I would prefer the earlier versions as their spice blends are more interesting, although the sour componants in the above recipe would be interesting.

[g.johnson]

Adam: When were the spices we associate with curries -- coriander, cumin, turmeric, cayenne -- introduced to Britain? These are the things that seem un-British to me. (By contrast I associate the sweet spices -- cloves, cinnamon -- with traditional British cooking.)

[Adam Balic]

Not sure about exact dates, but both cumin and coriander are found in ancient europeon cooking, so I imagine they have been in British cooking for some while, comming in and out of popularity over time.

I have seen some early 18th c. references to chilli (cayenne etc) in English cook books, so it would have been introduced sometime between the 16th and 18th C.? Tumeric I have no idea. Possibly as late as the British Raj, but I will look into it.

You forgot Nutmeg and Mace. Very few 18th C. recipes without at lease one of these.

[Human Bean]

To me, fenugreek seed (Methi) is an obvious (if not dominant) scent in "curry" powder.

I'd appreciate any history about that, if anyone knows...

[Adam Balic]

Recipe II.

From Robert May's "The Accomplisht Cook", 1660. (Avalible from Prospect Books, UK. One of, if not the, greatest English cook book). Again another English cook/recipe.

Tortelleti (one of several pasta recipes in the book)

"Take pease gre[e]n or dried, French beans or garden beans (Broad/Fava beans?), boil them tender and stamp them; strain through a strainer, and put to them some fried onions chopped small, sugar, cinamon, cloves, pepper and nutmeg, some grated parmisan, or fat cheese, and some cheese curd (ricotta, cottage cheese etc) stamped.

The make a paste, and make little pastries, boil them in broth and serve them with sugar, cinamon and grated cheese in a fine clean dish."

Obviously, no measurements, you are expected to add the spice to your taste. Have made these using petit pois (so left out the sugar as they are sweet enough), but served them with sage and butter - rather good. In some areas of Northern Italy you can still get tortellini/ravioli etc served with sugar, cinamon and parmesan (so it is 'authentic'), but I don't like this so much.

If you used dried green pease then I imagine that very small versions of this dish would go very nicely in a ham based broth.

[g.johnson]

So we know that Italian cooking was considered relevant in 1660.

[Gavin Jones]

Only to British food.