Restaurant Dress Codes and Attire

[Blether]

I give my support to any establishment that feels it can still make it despite imposing a dress code - just as long as they're up front about it.

My personal view is that the quality of the diner is in the diner, not in the diner's clothes. Infractions against decorum should be dealt with as such. IIRC Miss Manners always said that being overbearing about pointing out anyone's rudeness, is just as rude.

Do restaurant dress codes have roots in the depession era, when not being able to dress might mean you'd not be able to pay ?

Edited September 29, 2009 by Blether (log)

[rickster]

Do restaurant dress codes have roots in the depession era, when not being able to dress might mean you'd not be able to pay ?

I would suspect that it was more a social class thing and preserving a certain atmosphere. At one time it would be a given that everyone would be in a suit and tie just because that was the social norm. When the norm began to slip, some institutions thought it necessary to remind people via the code of the type of atmosphere they wanted in the restaurant

[paulraphael]

I've just reread the last dozen or so posts, and they all break down to one central conflict: people who like to dress up vs. people who don't.

All the arguments are rationalizations for these two sentiments. That's ok-- but let's recognize we're not talking about anything more profound that this.

Are there social norms about dressing a certain way? Yes. Have they been changing over the last decades? Yes. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? From the restaurant's and the diner's perspectes? All depends on your feelings about dressing up.

Obviously there will be conflicts about this. And it's obvious that arguments about who's right and who's wrong are going to be fundamentally pointless. The interesting issues are what people like (and dislike) about dressing up. And how to navigate the social landscape when the rules have become so vague.

[Sneakeater]

That's not 100% accurate.

I don't really like "dressing up" (I'm putting that in quotes because I don't really view putting on a sport coat as dressing up). I'm just willing to do it if I feel it's expected.

Other people seem to be taking the position that they don't care what's expected: they only want to do what they feel like.

[Dave Weinstein]

If the restaurant has a dress code, customers can either conform to it, or take their business elsewhere.

If the restaurant does not have a dress code, or has one less rigorous than some customers would desire, they can either go with the understanding that people will dress more casually than they would like, or take their business elsewhere.

Frankly, the only people who have a right to set "what is expected" run the restaurant.

[prasantrin]

That's not 100% accurate.

I don't really like "dressing up" (I'm putting that in quotes because I don't really view putting on a sport coat as dressing up). I'm just willing to do it if I feel it's expected.

Other people seem to be taking the position that they don't care what's expected: they only want to do what they feel like.

Exactly. There are always people who only want to do what they want, and just as importantly, don't want to be told what to do.

But I'm reminded of my mother's surprise almost-70th birthday party. We held it at a golf and country club that had a very strict dress code--no shorts, no denim, no. . . I can't remember the rest. We invited people from all aspects of my mother's life--family, friends, and a few former students. My sister included information about the dress code on the invitation, so people knew to dress accordingly. We were a little concerned about a couple of the students we invited, as my mother used to run programs for at-risk youth who aren't known for even owning dress-up clothes. Just before the party, one of the former students asked me if there was anything he needed to know. I merely reminded him of the dress code, and he assured me he was all set.

When my mother and I arrived at the party, there he was, dressed in a t-shirt and jeans.

It wasn't that he didn't want to be told what to do, but he didn't have anything else. And he wanted to be there to help celebrate my mother whom he valued and considered as family. The club handled the situation wonderfully, and no one made him feel bad about wearing jeans in a place that had an enforced dress code.

In most cases, people don't want to dress up just because they don't want to or because they don't want to be told what to do. But in some cases, it's because they can't. The group shots of our party might have looked a little nicer if everyone had been dressed up, but I'm still thankful he showed up, despite the discomfort he may have felt knowing he would be the only one not dressed up.

[Chris Amirault]

I'm not sure that Joel Robuchon has too many people who can afford dinner but not a collared shirt.

[prasantrin]

I'm not sure that Joel Robuchon has too many people who can afford dinner but not a collared shirt.

What if the collarless shirt guy isn't the one paying? As in our case, the "offender" was our guest.

If someone is going to choose to dine at a place with a dress code, they should do their best to follow it. But if exceptional circumstances should prevent them from doing so, then I don't believe they should be prevented from dining at the establishment (as long as they are reasonably attired).

If you were flying into Paris the same day as your reservations at a place with a dress code and the airline lost your luggage, would you immediately cancel the reservation knowing all you had to wear were the jeans and t-shirt you wore on the plane? (I'd actually call and explain first, and hope they would still let me dine, but if you don't believe exceptions should be made, then of course you should cancel immediately.)

(As an aside, since it was mentioned, I've seen people dine at L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon in cargo pants. I know L'Atelier is more casual than Chateau, but do you think cargo pants cross the line?)

[Florida]

If the restaurant has a dress code, customers can either conform to it, or take their business elsewhere.

If the restaurant does not have a dress code, or has one less rigorous than some customers would desire, they can either go with the understanding that people will dress more casually than they would like, or take their business elsewhere.

Frankly, the only people who have a right to set "what is expected" run the restaurant.

Agreed.

I'm not sure that Joel Robuchon has too many people who can afford dinner but not a collared shirt.

1) What does one have to do with the other?

2) Robuchon sets the dress code at his restaurants. The dress code is not set by the collective will of the people dining there.

[gfweb]

So would it be OK to wear my baseball hat on backwards at Daniel?

[Sneakeater]

If a restaurant doesn't have a stated dress code, it doesn't follow to me that you can wear anything you want.

It's more like they're trusting their clientele to dress appropriately.

I know you guys think this isn't an apt analogy (for reasons I frankly don't grasp), but there's no stated dress code for funerals. Everybody is just expected to know what's appropriate.

[Florida]

If a restaurant doesn't have a stated dress code, it doesn't follow to me that you can wear anything you want.

It's more like they're trusting their clientele to dress appropriately.

I know you guys think this isn't an apt analogy (for reasons I frankly don't grasp), but there's no stated dress code for funerals. Everybody is just expected to know what's appropriate.

If a restaurant doesn't have a stated dress code, it doesn't follow to me that their patrons will wear anything they want. However, if someone dines at a high end restaurant and chooses to wear a polo shirt versus a jacket, why should I care? How does that affect my meal? It simply doesn’t.

If Batali can wear shorts and orange clogs and Bourdain can go virtually everywhere in his ratty Yankees shirt, I see no reason why I should have to conform to some unwritten, archaic "rule," if the restaurant I am dining at doesn’t even require it.

[paulraphael]

2) Robuchon sets the dress code at his restaurants. The dress code is not set by the collective will of the people dining there.

The collective will of the people exerts a strong influence. Diners vote with their reservations and their pocketbooks; restaurant owners have only limited sway.

Of course someone like Robuchon might get customers if he insits on tuxedos, but he's in the exalted minority. Most chefs and owners work hard to get people in the door. Creating an environment that diners don't like (and this could include a dress code that's too strict or one that's not strict enough) will hurt business. That's why this debate DOES seem like a kind of negotiation between the restaurants and the patrons (and between the patrons who like to dress up and those who don't).

[Simon_S]

I know you guys think this isn't an apt analogy (for reasons I frankly don't grasp), but there's no stated dress code for funerals. Everybody is just expected to know what's appropriate.

I think that's a very apt analogy, but "appropriate" attire for funerals is another thing that varies with age and other factors, at least in my experience. Many younger acquaintances are of the opinion that when it comes to funerals, their presence is the only important aspect, their attire is irrelevant. I can disagree (and I do), I can judge (and I do!) but ultimately these are not absolute questions. What you consider appropriate restaurant attire (sports jacket) would have been considered *very* casual by the standards of previous generations. These things shift over time.

Basically what I'm saying is, you're getting old!

[Dave Weinstein]

I know you guys think this isn't an apt analogy (for reasons I frankly don't grasp), but there's no stated dress code for funerals. Everybody is just expected to know what's appropriate.

There isn't a single "dress code" for funerals either.

Don't believe me? Wear that nice suit as you hike through the back country to scatter a friends' ashes off a mountain.

The dress code for funerals is driven by sub-culture, although most are fairly formal. However, the people coming to a funeral generally are from the same sub-culture as the deceased, and will dress to cultural norms. When there are conflicts, the standards of those closest to the dead are appropriate.

[True story. I had a florist send an all pink floral arrangement with a central turnip for the funeral of a (male) friend. It was deeply appreciated by the family, because it referenced shared experiences and some inside jokes. It is not, however, an appropriate floral arrangement in the general case.]

The problem here is that you are insisting that your sartorial standards are the proper communal standards for fine dining, and implying (if not outright stating) that everyone should know that.

If the restaurant doesn't set a standard, who are you to set one for them? If you only want "dressed up" fine dining, confine your meals to those restaurants that require what you deem appropriate attire, just as those who care about the food and not the clothing will consider whether or not they want to dress up to meet a restaurant's requirements before making a reservation.

[Florida]

2) Robuchon sets the dress code at his restaurants. The dress code is not set by the collective will of the people dining there.

The collective will of the people exerts a strong influence. Diners vote with their reservations and their pocketbooks; restaurant owners have only limited sway.

Of course someone like Robuchon might get customers if he insits on tuxedos, but he's in the exalted minority. Most chefs and owners work hard to get people in the door. Creating an environment that diners don't like (and this could include a dress code that's too strict or one that's not strict enough) will hurt business. That's why this debate DOES seem like a kind of negotiation between the restaurants and the patrons (and between the patrons who like to dress up and those who don't).

Well if it is the consumers who have the decision making ability, than there is very little argument to be made for formal wear as the vast majority of restaurants do not have a dress code. Sneakeater himself has noted that EMP will seat him even if he is not dressed “appropriately.” They are valuing his potential as a customer ($$$) over their own dress code.

Would also note, in America, it is very difficult and very risky to refuse service to someone. After all, the common belief is that “the customer is always right,” even when they are not. Refusing service is questioning that belief and people are not fond of having their beliefs questioned. Furthermore, refusing service to someone opens up the door for the accusation of discrimination. Businesses being businesses will go out of their way to avoid the PR nightmare that comes with such an accusation. It is far easier to allow for a dress code infraction than it is to repair a tarnished image.

[Sneakeater]

If the restaurant doesn't set a standard, who are you to set one for them? If you only want "dressed up" fine dining, confine your meals to those restaurants that require what you deem appropriate attire, just as those who care about the food and not the clothing will consider whether or not they want to dress up to meet a restaurant's requirements before making a reservation.

That's interesting.

Actually, my personal preference is for "not dressed up" fine dining. My favorite restaurant (NYC) is Momofuku Ssam Bar. I love that I can go there dressed however I want* and get food as good and ambitious as at the finest places in town.

But OTOH, I know that when I do go to the other "fancier" places, different dress is appropriate.

________________________________________________________________

* Not really "however I want." I'd feel uncomfortable if I went there from, say, a court appearance, when I was wearing a suit.

[Carlovski]

Good point about the changes in what is acceptible attire. I remember an old episode of Sherlock Holmes where Holmes had invited Watson to dinner. Watson turns up in an immaculate looking 3 piece suit, to which Holmes comments 'Dressing casually are we?' - as he wasn't wearing a dinner jacket. Apparently it was the influence of his American wife...

[Kouign Aman]

Show up at Galatoire's in New Orleans, sans jacket, and they'll gladly hand you a white waiters jacket to wear. I suspect they have a stash of ties too.

They've been a successful restaurant for some time and look to stay that way, despite or perhaps in part because of enforcing their dress code.

[Toliver]

If the restaurant has a dress code, customers can either conform to it, or take their business elsewhere.

If the restaurant does not have a dress code, or has one less rigorous than some customers would desire, they can either go with the understanding that people will dress more casually than they would like, or take their business elsewhere.

Frankly, the only people who have a right to set "what is expected" run the restaurant.

I've posted this story before...

Alex Spanos, owner of the San Diego Chargers NFL football team, arrived at the Star of the Sea restaurant. The Star of the Sea was an "Old School" fine dining restaurant overlooking San Diego Bay. The restaurant had a dress code for men requiring a suit and tie in order to dine there. When Mr. Spanos arrived he wasn't wearing the requisite suit and tie providing a dilemma for the restaurant. Stick to the dress code and turn away a high profile customer and let him take his business elsewhere or abolish the dress code? The dress code was done away with from that moment on.

So a restaurant can stick to their guns and enforce the dress code and risk losing buisness (and potential business from friends and associates of those customers turned away), or they can drop the dress code and bring customers and their money into the restaurant.

A sad footnote, the Star of the Sea restaurant eventually went out of business (it's now an "event" site for wedding receptions, etc).

[sethd]

Recently, I showed a picture of the ornate, beautiful dining room of restaurant Louis XV in Monaco to my colleagues (perhaps the worst dressed professionals in New York) and asked them all the following question, "What is the appropriate dress for eating in such a restaurant?" They all said at least a Jacket and tie and some mentioned that a dinner jacket would be within reason.

I

[Florida]

The exceptions do not prove the rule.

However,

Jackets are required for gentlemen during dinner and all day Sunday.

While they may be successful, I guess business during the day isn't that successful that they are capable of enforcing the jacket rule during all hours.

While,

Dressing: Jacket required and tie recommended.

So, even Monsieur Ducasse has to post the dress requirements because they are no longer assumed. And this is a restaurant that charges 80E for a salad and is located in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

[Omnivor]

Noma in Copenhagen has recently voted the best restaurant in the world on the St Pellegrino worlds 50 best restaurants list. Their interior is very stylish, no table cloth, nothing unnecessary standing around...dinners are dressed casual and really seem to enjoy themselves and especially the excellent food! I take this as a good sign . People should feel comfortable when dinning not having to wear anything they normally would not!

I personally think it would be much more important to not allow people in reeking of perfume! I don't mind what fellow dinners are wearing, but I do mind how they smell. Too strong perfumes can ruin a whole evening, since you can't taste your food properly any longer. I am afraid I have to say that in my experience there is a strong positive correlation between wearing a suite or sticking to the stiff dress-code and the obsessive use of perfume of any kind! This is actually the main reason why I avoid restaurants with dress-code.