Cornbread stuffing

[jaybee]

I make a cornbread stuffing with pecans, apples and sausage as one of the Thanksgiving dishes. I use the basic recipe from Athony Diaz Blue's book, Thanksgiving Dinner . The cornbread mixed with chunks of french bread makes a really rich stuffing, . Does anyone have a favorite recipe for cornbread stuffing?

[awbrig]

Williams Sonoma has an outstanding corn bread-appricot stuffing w rosemary at:

http://content2.williams-sonoma.com/recipe...Var%3Dsubmitted

[jaybee]

Williams Sonoma has an outstanding corn bread-appricot stuffing w rosemary at:

Thanks for the reference. Have you tried this recipe? I'm curious how it comes off. I've made an all-cornbread version once and find it too dense, especially when the gravy soaks in. That's why I like making it 1/2 corn bread and 1/2 french bread. I also use WS chestnuts mixed in withthe pecans. They are very good. Dried apricots tend to be a little too sweet to my taste for a savory stuffing. I'm curious what others' experiences are.

[Toby]

I use half cornbread, half biscuits, both made with buttermilk and butter; this makes it very light while maintaining a consistency of flavoring . And I add hot smoked pheasant sausage from Quattro's at the Union Square Saturday greenmarket, chopped hard-boiled eggs, evaporated milk, green peppers, onions....

[awbrig]

Ive had the WS recipe but havent made it...Very good, not outstanding...

[snowangel]

I often add diced water chestnuts to stuffing to "lighten it up" -- they don't lose their crunch and can prevent stuffing from becoming a congealed mass.

[Toby]

Do you cook your stuffing inside the turkey or separately in a baking dish (then called dressing)? I like it cooked separately -- find it doesn't get mushy that way.

[awbrig]

good man toby - its not suggested because of bacteria these days, to stuff your turkey and eat the stuffing. Alton Brown thnks its a bad idea as does Charlie Trotter among others...I follow their advice....

[Shermar]

I use half cornbread, half biscuits, both made with buttermilk and butter; this makes it very light while maintaining a consistency of flavoring .  And I add hot smoked pheasant sausage from Quattro's at the Union Square Saturday greenmarket, chopped hard-boiled eggs, evaporated milk, green peppers, onions....

oooooh! oooooh! Recipe?

[jaybee]

Toby, I like the buttermilk..adds richness and a little tang. What kind of biscuits? Are they baking soda biscuits? That souond like a good idea. I like Quattro's pheasant sausage, I get it from their Rt. 44. I make the stuffing outside, in a baking dish. But I also put some in the turkey because I think it adds flavor to the bird. Doesn't it?

[maggiethecat]

good man toby -  its not suggested  because of bacteria these days, to stuff your turkey and eat the stuffing.  Alton Brown thnks its a bad idea as does Charlie Trotter among others...I follow their advice....

I know that I am of the minority opinion here: I like my stuffing stuffed into the cavity.

Lord, the arguments every Thanksgiving! His Handsomeness is firmly in the "Baked outside the cavity" school. Dressing's o.k. I have eaten enormous quantities of it! But no matter how often you baste dressing with stock or juices, it just isn't as tasty as stuffing. Does Stuffing sometimes get soggy? Or dry? Yeah. It's still good!

And there is some kind of childhood thing going on too: we all loved to watch Daddy take the first spoonful of stuffing out of the bird. That glorious whiff of herbal, oniony steam!

I know not of a single human being (personally) who has become sick because of stuffing.

BUT: The compromise now is that I make a classic sage/breadcrumb/herb onion stuffing for the cavity and H.H. makes a separate dressing according to his whim of the moment. I like his cornbread, sausage and jalapeno version...tasty, and the sausage helps keep it moist.

[Dave the Cook]

good man toby -  its not suggested  because of bacteria these days, to stuff your turkey and eat the stuffing.  Alton Brown thnks its a bad idea as does Charlie Trotter among others...I follow their advice....

I know that I am of the minority opinion here: I like my stuffing stuffed into the cavity.

Lord, the arguments every Thanksgiving! His Handsomeness is firmly in the "Baked outside the cavity" school. Dressing's o.k. I have eaten enormous quantities of it! But no matter how often you baste dressing with stock or juices, it just isn't as tasty as stuffing. Does Stuffing sometimes get soggy? Or dry? Yeah. It's still good!

I am a dedicated Alton Brown fan, but for God's sake, the man won't stuff a pork chop without putting on latex gloves!

AB's "stuffing is evil" argument goes like this: a) stuffing robs the meat of moisture; b) since the stuffing is in significant contact with raw meat juices, it needs to be cooked to the same temperature as the meat (160 F). This means the meat will be way overdone by the time the stuffing reaches the proper temperature.

To (a), I say: of course it does--that's the point, isn't it? But I also think that brining will mitigate this, as will a suficiently moist stuffing.

To (b), I say: OK, but should be subject to the common sense rule. As maggie suggests, people are not dying by the thousands because stuffing gets cooked inside the bird. Still...

I've gone the outside route the past few years, but it's not the same. Stuffing cooked outside the bird is fancy baked starch. It can be interesting, but it's not stuffing. So this year I'm going a third way. I'll stuff the bird and cook until the meat is done. Then I'll remove the stuffing to a deep casserole and put it back in the oven while the bird rests, and heat it to 160 F internal, then broil for a minute. I hope to get safe, bird-basted stuffing, plus a crispy top, which has been the single saving grace of out-of-the-turkey method.

(I will find out that everyone wears latex gloves to stuff pork chops except me. )

[trillium]

Hi Dave,

I hate stuffing cooked outside the bird too. I use the technique in Cook's Illustrated to avoid the danger zone for stuffing inside the bird. I usually hate their savory recipes and just use the sweet ones, but their turkey method is right on. You brine the turkey and let it dry overnight in the fridge (if you want crispy skin). When it comes time to stuff the bird, you heat the stuffing in the microwave to 120 -130 F. At this point it's too hot to handle with your bare hands, but they have you put it in a cheesecloth bag before heating. I don't do that, I just use my silicone spatula spoon to get it in while someone else holds the turkey. This give the stuffing headstart so it reaches the proper temp and the turkey doesn't overcook. You roast it breast side down for 1 hr at 400, turn it down to 250 for 2 hrs, flip it breast side up and roast it at 400 until the breast registers about 165 degrees, thickest part of thigh registers 170 to 175 degrees, and stuffing registers 165 degrees on instant-read thermometer, 1 to 1 1/2 hours longer (this is for a 14 lb turkey). I actually pull it out when the breast registers 160 because it climbs up at least 5 degrees while it sits.

regards,

trillium

[Dave the Cook]

Trillium--this sounds very promising. I will have to make some modifications, since I'll be grill-roasting it, but I might try it this way. Thanks!

BTW, I think most of us are on board with brining. If you haven't seen this thread, it's where we tried to teach awbrig and tommy about brine. There are some interesting contributions.

click me

In the meantime, I think we're all waiting for more details on Toby's cornbread-buttermik biscuit stuffing...

[Shermar]

In the meantime, I think we're all waiting for more details on Toby's cornbread-buttermik biscuit stuffing...

And waiting and waiting

[trillium]

Trillium--this sounds very promising. I will have to make some modifications, since I'll be grill-roasting it, but I might try it this way. Thanks!

BTW, I think most of us are on board with brining. If you haven't seen this thread, it's where we tried to teach awbrig and tommy about brine. There are some interesting contributions.

click me

In the meantime, I think we're all waiting for more details on Toby's cornbread-buttermik biscuit stuffing...

Hmmm. In a weber kettle, I take it? We have the smallest of the small, because I've really got my heart set on one of these babies. The spouse argues against immediate purchase because of a silly thing like needing 6 grown men to move one and the fact that we want to move soon.

Yes, I remember that thread on brining, that's where you got one of the lines in your sig, no? I'm not sure one can really be "scientific" about food, since it's even more subjective then science, BUT CI did go through hundreds of turkeys and blind tasting (though not double-blind, I think) before they decided brining was better.

regards,

trillium

[Dave the Cook]

Those eggs are very pretty. I hear you can get awesome temperatures out of them, and I like the way they can focus flame and smoke. I have a friend with a big egg, and he swears by it. But I need more grilling area for swim meets (usually 250-300 burgers/dogs/chicken breasts in a few hours). An egg that big is way out of my league. But I can grill vicariously, too. If you do get one, I want to hear about it.

I did turkey in a Weber last year and it turned out fine, but I never really felt in control. Even on the 22-1/2" grill, with only a 14-pounder, it seemed crowded. The fire was very close, and if something had gotten out of control, I'm not sure how I would have handled it. Klink says it's no problem, but he lives and breathes this stuff. With everything else going on come Thanksgiving, I have to have more margin for error. So this year, I'll have this guy.

As for science, and particularly double-blind testing and the like: I've been doing a series of tests to check some things that have been brought up here. Let me tell you, double-blind protocols are a b***h. When ther are just two or three people involved, it means lots of secret tables and copious note-taking and much misplacing of ingredients and double-checking and labeling. Not sure it's worth it, considering the knowledge likely to be gained from this particular experiment. But since I went in with certain expectations, I didn't want to be fooling myself, and had to eliminate the potential for personal prejudice to affect the results.

And as for science in general, the job of the cook is made easier by the assurance that certain things are true, or that they work in certain predictable ways. I don't understand why some people reject the freedom that science represents for the intelligent and resourceful cook. We ought to welcome science into the kitchen. It leaves more room for experimentation and creativity.

But science can only take you so far, at least with the tools we have now. You can cook a turkey to a certain temperature, but a thermometer can't tell you when the skin will be perfectly crisp, or even that it will taste good. Or, to take an example from this site: someone wanted to know an easy way to measure a liquid as it reduced. There are a few ways to do that "scientifically," but eventually, someone came up with a more correct answer, which is that you have to learn when a liquid has been reduced a proper amount by looking, listening, smelling, swishing, swirling and tasting. There's no scientific method that can do that. (climbs down from soapbox)

Oh yeah, the sig--it's kind of stale, isn't it? Guess I need to come up with something else. Besides, I'm getting tired of paying tommy license fees.

[Toby]

In the meantime, I think we're all waiting for more details on Toby's cornbread-buttermik biscuit stuffing...

And waiting and waiting

Sorry, I've been out all day. It's a sort of complicated recipe and I don't remember it that well -- haven't made it in a few years. Will have to go and dig it up, and will post it in a couple of days.

[trillium]

300 burgers/dogs/chicken breasts in a few hours). An egg that big is way out of my league. But I can grill vicariously, too. If you do get one, I want to hear about it.

snip

As for science, and particularly double-blind testing and the like: I've been doing a series of tests to check some things that have been brought up here. Let me tell you, double-blind protocols are a b***h. When ther are just two or three people involved, it means lots of secret tables and copious note-taking and much misplacing of ingredients and double-checking and labeling. Not sure it's worth it, considering the knowledge likely to be gained from this particular experiment. But since I went in with certain expectations, I didn't want to be fooling myself, and had to eliminate the potential for personal prejudice to affect the results.

And as for science in general, the job of the cook is made easier by the assurance that certain things are true, or that they work in certain predictable ways. I don't understand why some people reject the freedom that science represents for the intelligent and resourceful cook. We ought to welcome science into the kitchen. It leaves more room for experimentation and creativity.

snip

Right I'm in the lusting stage, but I've been eying them for a couple of years. Some people think we should be buying furniture instead of more stuff to cook food in and on. Feh. I'll be sure to let you know if I ever get my hands on one of them. I'd really like to be able to make my own tasso and andouillie.

Double blind studies are a lot easier with more than 3 people and I hate to tell you this, but to statisfy the staunchest critics, your methodology will need to be peer-reviewed and repeated with similiar results in other laboratories...oh wait...I forgot, this isn't work, it's just sugar! Whenever I can I like to use golden syrup or a less refined sugar in my baked goods, with those I can taste a difference.

I'm all for science in the kitchen or out, it's what pays the bills at our house...but I probably fall in the smug scientific bastard catagory, so what do I know? And you're right, cooking is easier with a few known constants, but the variables are usually best addressed with experience and your senses.

regards,

trillium

[Dave the Cook]

Sorry if I was presumptuous in my preaching, Trillium--didn't realize we were in the same choir.

make my own tasso and andouillie

[trillium]

Sorry if I was presumptuous in my preaching, Trillium--didn't realize we were in the same choir.

make my own tasso and andouillie

Don't worry about it, I didn't see it that way. eGullet is easy compared to years on Usenet! And I'm looking forward to hearing the results of your sugar tests.

regards,

trillium

[ChocoChris]

jaybee,

Any change that you can share your stuffing recipe that started this thread? Sounds yummy!

ChocoChris

P.S. Dave .... there's nothing like "snapping on the latex" when stuffing them chops

[Dave the Cook]

.... there's nothing like "snapping on the latex" when stuffing them chops 

Safety tip or evocative sexual euphemism? Please discuss.

[ChocoChris]

Actually I borrowed the quotation part from an Xfiles episode. Put coupled with stuffing the chops and you can take that wherever your heart (etc...) desires

[Toby]

In the meantime, I think we're all waiting for more details on Toby's cornbread-buttermik biscuit stuffing...

And waiting and waiting

Sorry, I've been out all day. It's a sort of complicated recipe and I don't remember it that well -- haven't made it in a few years. Will have to go and dig it up, and will post it in a couple of days.

Well, I searched through all my notebooks and it looks like I never wrote the recipe down in its finished stages. I think I started with combining recipes for andouille smoked sausage dressing and cornbread dressing from Prudhomme's Louisiana Kitchen cookbook, and then changing them.

I used 1/2 loaf buttermilk cornbread mixed with 1/2 batch sweet milk (not buttermilk) biscuits. I just put the biscuit dough into a small cake pan and baked it as one big biscuit at 375-400 degrees for about 25-30 minutes until it was browning on top. I did this the day before and then let it sit out overnight.

For the stuffing, I melted 4 tablespoons butter (maybe more??) in a big pan and sauted 1 cup chopped onion, 2 stalks chopped celery, 3 chopped scallions, chopped garlic, some fresh thyme and bay leaves until the onion was translucent. I think I added chopped green pepper as well. Then I added 1 lb. of the smoked pheasant sausage (spicy version from Quattro), sliced into rounds and continued to saute for about 5 minutes. Instead of the pheasant sausage, you can use andouille. Then I added a seasoning mix of salt, white pepper, black pepper, and very hot African cayenne pepper and sauteed for a few more minutes.

I crumbled the half loaf of cornbread and half loaf of biscuit into a big bowl and added the vegetable-smoked sausages, tabasco (I like hot food), about 1 cup chicken or turkey stock, some chopped up hard-boiled eggs, a 13-oz. can of evaporated milk, 2 raw eggs and some chopped up parsley and mixed it all together with my hands. (The amount of stock, evaporated milk, and raw eggs are approximate -- I remember I added it in stages until it felt right.) I put it in a big pyrex round baking dish (deeper than wide), basted it with a little more broth if it was too dry and dotted it with butter and baked it for about 35 minutes at 375 degrees.

For a less rustic, cooked inside, stuffing, Alice Waters has a great recipe for cornbread and wild mushroom stuffing in the Chez Panisse Menu Cookbook (meant to be cooked inside a duck, but could probably be revised for turkey).