Surprise! What is actually in my food?

[teagal]

I ordered dinner from Pizza Hut tonite--it was a long week and that's what the husband wanted.

As I waited at the counter for my food I watched as an employee took a pizza out of the oven and then took one of two cans on the counter of "Golden Swe___" (only could see part of the can haha) and sprayed the crust with it. As I peered over to see more of the can it said garlic butter spray.

For some reason I've always thought the garlic butter on the crust was uh garlic butter, or really, since we're talking Pizza Hut, garlic margarine. How darn hard is it to mince a few cloves of garlic? And as far as healthful chain restaurant items I thought pizza might be a good choice-minimally processed, only bread, sauce, toppings; but that's what I get for thinking. What the heck is in that can? I do not want it on my pizza!

Now this got me thinking-what else are we missing being not being in the kitchen to see what actually goes into our food? Anyone want to share their knowledge of "extra" ingredients added to things? This has got me really curious and also enforcing my want to eat local and fresh.

[jgm]

I think it's probably safe to assume that in any chain restaurant, you're going to get processed foods. It's about consistency. Also you might want to read "The End of Overeating" by Kessler. Even if overeating isn't an issue in your life, you'll learn quite interesting things about how the chain restaurants approach menus and ingredients.

[Darienne]

I don't know much about chain food eateries and their ingredients, but when we are on the road to and from Utah to Ontario, we sometimes break down and grab something. You know how it is... you forget to get stuff ahead of time, it's way past eating time, you are tired and sore, etc, etc. Quickly...get something to eat before you disintegrate into little pieces...

As far as I can see, you are most likely to get 'real' food in Subway Subway. We stopped for wraps at one somewhere and discovered that we could order salads also...for that night's supper...and that the salads actually would contain more than lettuce and tomatoes, stuff like onions and peppers. That was a pleasant discovery. Of sorts. The quality of said onions and peppers I know nothing about. Don't want to think about it.

[Lilija]

Here's something I learned at work. We can synthesize *any* flavor. In typical jarred pasta sauces, you taste basil, and parsley and garlic, right? Fake, fake, fake. Not all brands, but last summer, we spent months working on those three flavors for a big sauce company (they wouldn't tell us which), and it got to the point that I couldn't tell the difference between artificial and natural basil. That's just one small example. I've also had fake chicken and beef flavors, for a type of packaged gravy, and innumerable (and impressively realistic) fake fruit flavors. Thursday I had a fake popcorn flavor, not popcorn butter, but popcorn itself, flavor sprayed on little rice puff things. It was startlingly similar.

Also, MSG is in way more stuff than you would think. Any packaged food that is salty, meaty, savory has a form of MSG in it, even though it might not be labeled as such. MSG is derived from all sorts of stuff, so one thing you might see on a label is "yeast extractive" or something, and that's just fancy terms for MSG. Chips, dressings, soup, just...any thing. MSG also occurs naturally in a lot of foods, like tomatoes, seaweed, mushrooms, cheese, but at way smaller concentrations.

My job has made me quit processed food.

[azurite]

Lilija,

Thanks for the information. I don't eat that much processed food (canned/jarred sauces unless I canned it myself, etc.) but if I'm thinking of buying something canned to have around (power outage supplies, if I'm feeling too ill to cook for awhile . . .) I almost always read the list of ingredients. I can figure out most of the less than straightforward terms, but the few occasions I saw yeast extract or a related phrase I really didn't know what it was (thought it might be brewer's yeast). Glad to have that question answered!

azurite

[Jenni]

Also, MSG is in way more stuff than you would think.  Any packaged food that is salty, meaty, savory has a form of MSG in it, even though it might not be labeled as such.  MSG is derived from all sorts of stuff, so one thing you might see on a label is "yeast extractive" or something, and that's just fancy terms for MSG.  Chips, dressings, soup, just...any thing.  MSG also occurs naturally in a lot of foods, like tomatoes, seaweed, mushrooms, cheese, but at way smaller concentrations.

←

Are you sure, because I know yeast extract as a different product altogether, though it is used in a similar way to msg, according to this wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast_extract

Oh hang on, have just spotted on that page that says yeast extract is actually a source of msg. But I'm assuming when it says yeast extract on the ingredients list of a product, that means it's got all the yeast extract in it, not just extracted msg. And that's pretty much just marmite then!

[Darienne]

If you google MSG, you will find a number of sources of information, including articles like 'The Hidden Names of MSG'. Should be an early morning downer.

[v. gautam]

There is a leap of logic being made here that itself may be open to more self-doubt or scrutiny: if it ïs "processed" [not defined here] synthesized [ how, to what degree], or "comes out of a can/spray device" it MUST necessarily be unhealthy/inferior to a "natural". possibly fresh, product.

This is an a priori judgment. In many cases this could be true, but not necessarily. There is a product sold as ''liquid aminos" lovingly used by a certain group of people who shun crytallized MSG and allegedly suffer from scratchy throats, thirst etc. & shun MSG in their diet. They are buying into the biggest bunch of nonsense, as they are consuming exactly the same glutamate, in brown liquid rather than white crystal. The same applies with people currently purchasing demerara cane sugar, and natural cane sugar. If consuming sugar is not appropriate for their personal physical condition, it will not matter matter if they consume sugar express-mailed from Heaven itself!

There is a sensible judgment to be made: not all processed foods are the Satan's playing field, nor are all additives, many of which are extraordianarily positive. I have no relationship with the food industry, but am a plant membrane biochemist who deals with aspects of plant defense reactions as well. From that viewpoint, I can assure you that "natural" foods, including healthy foods like cabbages and carrots are not necessarily innocuous, from a human health POV. As soon as they are harvested and stored, they think themselves injured (in certain instances) and produce minute but still significant quantities [when added up over a lifetime] of coumarin-based anti-herbivore compounds.

People eat raw button mushrooms. Many countries discourage their raw consumption owing to the presence of agaritine, another natural toxin we disregard at our own risk.

So here again, you have natural additives you do not recognize, or choose not to. Much more could be written about the blindness, and ideological partisanship of a certain group of people who today have become the opinion makers of the American food movement.

Fresh salads have the potential to carry parasites of strains that can penetrate the blood-brain barrier. There is no way that the simple washing advocated by the USDA can ever rid salad, cilantro greens & such of these hookworm-type parasites. There can never be guarantees of non-contamination and illness is never acute but month or years in the making. Has anyone ever inquired about the 100% guarantee of freedom of all raw greens from these?

And what about that most dangerous and pernicious of all dietary habits that gets such approbation today, the consumption of raw meat and seafood? Aside from ever so many nutritional availability aspects, people should inform themselves about the bacterial, viral and subviral types & titres of ocean waters. These can never be eliminated, no matter how high priced the sushi chef.

[slkinsey]

If you google MSG, you will find a number of sources of information, including articles like 'The Hidden Names of MSG'.  Should be an early morning downer.

One should note that there is a difference between "natural source of free glutamates" and "refined MSG." One person's perfectly natural "kombu broth" is another person's "MSG."

[Jenni]

If you google MSG, you will find a number of sources of information, including articles like 'The Hidden Names of MSG'.  Should be an early morning downer.

One should note that there is a difference between "natural source of free glutamates" and "refined MSG." One person's perfectly natural "kombu broth" is another person's "MSG."

←

That's what I was thinking, I have no problem with the natural glutatmate in the form that nature intended it to be! I think many of these things only cause a problem when humans refine them to a concentrated form.

[Irenesh]

One is just better off cooking at home. Fast food has become so industrialized that even the simple things come in spray cans.

[Moopheus]

The same applies with people currently purchasing demerara cane sugar, and natural cane sugar. If consuming sugar is not appropriate for their personal physical condition, it will not matter matter if they consume sugar express-mailed from Heaven itself!

It's been my experience that the main reason to use demerara sugar is that it just plain tastes better. Especially for baking--it has a much richer flavor than ordinary brown sugar (the stuff that's actually white sugar sprayed with molasses).

And it is true that some people make poor choices in trying to avoid artificial ingredients, especially when what they're buying is eseentially identical. But scary talk about the "dangers" of natural foods like carrots and mushrooms is hardly persuasive, unless you can demonstrate actual harm.

[Chris Amirault]

Here's something I learned at work. We can synthesize *any* flavor. In typical jarred pasta sauces, you taste basil, and parsley and garlic, right? Fake, fake, fake. Not all brands, but last summer, we spent months working on those three flavors for a big sauce company (they wouldn't tell us which), and it got to the point that I couldn't tell the difference between artificial and natural basil. That's just one small example. I've also had fake chicken and beef flavors, for a type of packaged gravy, and innumerable (and impressively realistic) fake fruit flavors. Thursday I had a fake popcorn flavor, not popcorn butter, but popcorn itself, flavor sprayed on little rice puff things. It was startlingly similar.

Lilija, can you say more about your work and its relationship to processed flavors? IIRC, Eric Schlosser argued that there's little difference between artificial and natural flavorings these days, given that "natural" simply means that the chemical was derived from an extremely complicated process starting with a grown ingredient instead of a synthesized one; as a result, there's little to no chemical difference in the two.

[slkinsey]

And it is true that some people make poor choices in trying to avoid artificial ingredients, especially when what they're buying is eseentially identical. But scary talk about the "dangers" of natural foods like carrots and mushrooms is hardly persuasive, unless you can demonstrate actual harm.

I don't think this is "scare tactics" so much as I think it points out the ridiculousness of decrying the "danger" of eating so-called refined or synthesized foods (e.g., MSG) when there are so-called natural foods which either contain the same substances or other substances that are equally "dangerous." Another way of putting it would be to say that if you're going to run around with your hands in the air shouting "eeeeeeeee! MSG!" then you should also be shouting "eeeeeeeeee! agaritine in raw mushrooms! eeeeeeeee! free glutamates in 'liquid aminos'! eeeeeeeeeee! parasites in raw salad greens!" and so on. The point being that "refined" and "synthesized" doesn't automatically equate with "bad" or "dangerous," and there are lots of naturally-occurring substances in foods that are equally "bad" and "dangerous" -- if not moreso.

[Darienne]

Corn.

According to an article we read recently in one of the 'organic, green' periodicals...sorry, the name is gone...what's mostly in our food is corn. According to the author, we eat more corn than the Mexican peoples who actually "eat" corn.

There is corn in some fashion in and on pretty much everything we eat. They can now trace the amount of corn we eat through our blood. Corn has a very special chemical composition...one extra whatever...I think some kind of carbon molecule...and it stays in the blood in some fashion.

Sorry, the above is so lacking in precision, but the mind tends not to hold as much information as it used to. My days of the steel trap mind are long gone. The gist remained.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Darienne (log)

[Lilija]

Here's something I learned at work. We can synthesize *any* flavor. In typical jarred pasta sauces, you taste basil, and parsley and garlic, right? Fake, fake, fake. Not all brands, but last summer, we spent months working on those three flavors for a big sauce company (they wouldn't tell us which), and it got to the point that I couldn't tell the difference between artificial and natural basil. That's just one small example. I've also had fake chicken and beef flavors, for a type of packaged gravy, and innumerable (and impressively realistic) fake fruit flavors. Thursday I had a fake popcorn flavor, not popcorn butter, but popcorn itself, flavor sprayed on little rice puff things. It was startlingly similar.

Lilija, can you say more about your work and its relationship to processed flavors? IIRC, Eric Schlosser argued that there's little difference between artificial and natural flavorings these days, given that "natural" simply means that the chemical was derived from an extremely complicated process starting with a grown ingredient instead of a synthesized one; as a result, there's little to no chemical difference in the two.

Honestly, I wish I could tell you more. I'm on a taste panel, and we're deliberately kept in the dark about most of the process, due to the nature of what I do. Generally, we're start with an unlabeled, uncolored, plain looking food or beverage product, most basically white rice or plain water with the flavor compound introduced. When we do new stuff, and it's up to us to figure out wtf it is/tastes like. Then, once we hit on WHAT it is, then we have to analyze the intensities, off tastes, various nuances, and aftertastes. Then we compare it to a fresh item, say basil, for instance, and analyze that, too, differences, similarities, all that. Then, we analyze the flavor in the actual product, sauces, soups, broths, noodle or rice dishes. We're the "after", the how whatever flavoring works in the food it's contracted for.

My friend is in the "before" phase, they develop the flavors, to match real as closely as possible. When they're trying to make a better beef, they have to taste and analyze beef in many forms, roasted, grilled, boiled, and many cuts, ground, cubed, diced, with many salt levels. Then they try to determine which works for the product, and which sums up "beef" the best, for whatever it is. Then, I suppose the data goes off to the lab for creation. We've done everything from orange drink, to sports drinks, yogurt, beef, chicken, roasted beef and chicken, plain umami, salted umami, the heat and biting compounds of ginger, ginger, various mint flavors, and the cooling and biting compounds of mint, fruit flavors, fruit in yogurt, the dairy (yes, that's a flavor profile) the dairy flavor of yogurt, fruity cereal, vegetal flavors for salty snacks, garlic, basil, parsley for broths, sauces, and salad dressings, heat and biting compounds of cinnamon for gum, mint for gum, sweeteners for gum, and we went for almost a year working on sugars, sugar alcohols, artificial sweeteners, and natural lower calorie sweeteners, for the big soft drink companies. We did a ton with Stevia, when it was approved. Everything we try is FDA approved, or GRAS. Once, they tried getting us to do a non approved pharmaceutical salt blocker type of blood pressure drug, but the whole panel mustered together, and declined.

Now, when I say "fake" it might be naturally derived, and they certainly don't have to put on the label that it's fake, you don't really see that too much on say, chicken broth. But, it's pretty damn far from a boiled chicken. Umami is a naturally occurring flavor in many things, which is what I was getting at initially. I chuckle to myself when people freak out about MSG, and they eat it regularly and in vast quantities, when they munch on Doritos, rice cakes, or have a can of condensed soup. I don't see those same people freaking out about their cheese or tomatoes, or mushrooms, either...

I don't know thing one about the process of creation. I only know that most "fake" will fool any typical consumer. It fools me, and I was trained for it, for years. It's a very cool, slightly high pressure job. A sinus infection can really screw up your week.

The company contracts out to huge conglomerates, like Unilever, for scents and flavors. We do a lot of stuff for Knorr, Bertolli, Lipton. Pepsi and Coke are other companies that hire IFF for flavors. There's a whole scent side, too, that deals with soaps, shampoos, fine fragrance, air fresheners, cleaners. We don't make the stuff, we make what makes it smell and taste good.

Sorry for rambling about my job so much, I hope it is at least a little enlightening.

[Darienne]

Very interesting job. Tell me, do you have more than the usual number of taste buds (?) on your tongue for this kind of job. I seem to recall Chloe Doutre-Roussel saying that she had more of whatever it is that does the tasting than the normal person.

I wonder if my DH and I have the same number of tasters on our tongues. He likes more salt and more spice on things that I do. I like to taste what the vegetable or whatever tastes like. But then years of smoking changes something in the taste buds...or does it?

[Lilija]

I don't know if I have more than what's typical. I did have to sort of audition for this position for about 6 weeks, before they narrowed it down to myself and two others. There were over 800 people staging initially, and it came down to three. It's possible that I do have more tastebuds, but I never stopped to count them I can taste something and identify most if not all of what's in it, to what degree of intensity, and mostly if it's "real" though. On eGullet, that's not so special, it's a sport to deconstruct stuff and remake it at home! I bet everyone here would make it on the team, so to speak.

Smokers have dulled or reduced tastebuds, there are no smokers allowed on my panel, whatsoever. We also have a lot of rules about what we can and cannot eat or do surrounding the workday, and smoking is THE big one. Also, no coffee 3 hours before, no strong mouthwashes, tooth brushing, perfumes, strongly scented soaps or body products, no lipsticks or balms, the "don't" list goes on forever.

I think everyone has different numbers of tastebuds, or flavor receptors, or levels of intensity. Even in my highly specialized place, there's a LOT of dissent and arguing, when we first tackle something. There's a whole lot of background both physiologically and psychologically that goes into taste, flavor recognition, and perceptions.

Even though I'm sensitive, I love a lot of salt, sharp, tangy, bitter, and spicy flavors, the one thing I can't handle is an overload of one thing, like heavy garlic used exclusively. I don't think preferences are conclusive, really.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Lilija (log)

[teagal]

Your job does sound like it would be ideal for most of us on this site! You must be great at recreating dishes!