Problem with pine nuts affecting taste sensation

[Chris Amirault]

As is often the case, Harold McGee is, um, on the case. From his blog:

[T]he Danish food ministry (the Fødevarestyrelsen) has found that to meet the increased demand, Chinese producers have been exporting nuts from two unusual pine species, Pinus armandii and P. massoniana, the Chinese white and red pines, which are smaller than standard pine nuts, often either round or triangular, and differ in composition from them.

For now, McGee says, stick to European, American, or Korean sources.

[Porthos]

Thanks for the update, Chris.

[OliverB]

strange, I'd sure not want that experience! Of course, the fact that pine nuts are either not available or cost some $30/lb here right now makes me feel rather safe. TJs can't get them, Safeway hast the expensive ones in an open bin (uh - super expensive nuts in an open bin? Spells rancid to me...) and I can't find them anywhere else either. But I will stay away from Chinese ones from now on. I'll rather pick up some local walnuts at the farmers market for my pesto I think.

[Pierogi]

.... TJs can't get them, Safeway hast the expensive ones in an open bin (uh - super expensive nuts in an open bin? Spells rancid to me...) and I can't find them anywhere else either....

My local TJs (LA Basin) had them back in stock like 2 weeks ago, and I snagged a bag. Didn't check the last time I was there, but they had a good-sized display when I saw them, so I assume they fixed their supply problem.

[Chris Amirault]

FWIW, the ones that created the problem in our household (for my wife) were from TJs.

[Pierogi]

GACK ! Well....now there's an interesting quandry. I have the remains of a very small bag I bought at Albertson's for $5.99 in the fridge, and the new one from TJs, nearly twice as big as the other, that was $7.99. Do I use the unknown TJs, or throw 8 bucks in the trash...?

BTW, I did just check and the source of the TJs nuts is "Russia or Korea". Based on the info from McGee, they should be OK.

I hope.

[FrogPrincesse]

That's amazing. I recently experienced a horribly bitter taste in my mouth that completely altered my sensations and turned to metallic towards the end. It lasted for 2 very long weeks. I was quite miserable and could not think of any reason until now... Yes, now I realize that it coincided with the use of pine nuts from Whole Foods. Mystery solved.

Edited September 24, 2010 by FrogPrincesse (log)

[gfweb]

GACK ! Well....now there's an interesting quandry. I have the remains of a very small bag I bought at Albertson's for $5.99 in the fridge, and the new one from TJs, nearly twice as big as the other, that was $7.99. Do I use the unknown TJs, or throw 8 bucks in the trash...?

BTW, I did just check and the source of the TJs nuts is "Russia or Korea". Based on the info from McGee, they should be OK.

I hope.

Assuming the Russians and Koreans are trustworthy....

[nakji]

GACK ! Well....now there's an interesting quandry. I have the remains of a very small bag I bought at Albertson's for $5.99 in the fridge, and the new one from TJs, nearly twice as big as the other, that was $7.99. Do I use the unknown TJs, or throw 8 bucks in the trash...?

BTW, I did just check and the source of the TJs nuts is "Russia or Korea". Based on the info from McGee, they should be OK.

I hope.

Assuming the Russians and Koreans are trustworthy....

I like how they think it's one or the other but aren't quite sure which.

Incidentally, I had this "taste switch" happen to me in Korea a few years ago, after eating Korean pine nuts. I tried googling it then, but all I came up with for "bitter taste in mouth" were pregnancy websites. Almost sent me to the drugstore for a pregnancy test!

[percival]

Fun/interesting thread. I guessed that alternate plants were being used a few posts in, before it was confirmed by the McGee quote. "If it looks like a duck and tastes like a duck..." right? Fishermen do this every single day in every single market. "White salmon" that's not salmon at all. "Basa" that's not catfish (but it is.) And the fact that trees have oils that weren't meant for human -- or more importantly, insect -- digestion. The "soapy" comment pretty much gave it away -- the taste of aldehydes, defensive chemicals released by plants that certain people tastes as bad, notably in cilantro, which McGee also wrote about in the NYT. Probably something similar is going on with those species of conifers. It would only affect certain people who had that genetically recessive ability, so most people would eat the nuts and go, "hey, these taste just like the regular pine nuts we sell -- bingo!"

[DinnerDog]

I had this problem as well! It was absolutely horrible, nearly turned me off pine nuts for good. The pine nuts i bought were imported from china

You can see my crazed reaction to the pine nuts here:

http://gregscooking.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/r-i-p-nuts/

[rooftop1000]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rozanne-gold/pine-nut-mouth_b_1310216.html?ref=food&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl7%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D139534

I dont know how long these links stay active so I will cut some pertinant info in

Rozanne Gold-Chef and author

""The condition is called "dysgeusia" or "metallogeusia" and not everyone is affected. The FDA says it is not an allergy but instead is an adverse reaction to something in the nuts. Its cause is still somewhat of a mystery. Lots of pine nuts have been shipped from China because they're plentiful and cheaper, but starting about ten years ago one particular variety of white pine nut grown there -- pinus armandii -- has been infiltrating packages of the good stuff. Pinus armandii is not classified as edible by the Food and Agriculture Organization, and is called "unfit for human consumption" by food safety experts at the European Commission. Strictly speaking, they're poisonous but don't cause permanent harm, which is why you still find them on food market shelves. These nuts, if you trouble to look, are much shorter than the more expensive ones from Italy that we once exclusively consumed; they should be avoided.""

Edited March 3, 2012 by rooftop1000 (log)