Grocery stores selling wine could change

[Don Giovanni]

Grocery stores selling wine could change wine sales forever in NYS

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"We will create a spike in the sale of wine," especially New York wine, Patrick Hooker, the state's agriculture commissioner, told Gannett News Service.

Wegmans, a leading upstate supermarket chain, applauded Paterson's plan yesterday, saying the law is long overdue.

"We love the idea of supermarkets being allowed to sell wine," spokeswoman Jeanne Colleluori said.

"We have supported this idea for decades because we believe it's a great service to the customers," she said.

But liquor stores were quick to criticize the proposal, saying it would lead stores to close and therefore damage the local economy.

"It would hurt our stores. It would hurt our members," said Mark Ressler, a Buffalo liquor-store owner and vice president of the state Liquor Store Association.

[Steamtrain]

is this a bad or good idea?

sounds like a good idea to me as a consumer

[Don Giovanni]

is this a bad or good idea?

sounds like a good idea to me as a consumer

←

No so bad for the consumer , but we need NYS wines in the stores too...

[Jaymes]

Alcohol laws of the US

The majority of US states do allow wine sales in grocery stores, but not distilled spirits. And wine/liquor shops still seem to do just fine. It seems to me that most grocery stores sell inexpensive table wine that folks walk over and grab a bottle of. Most of these customers know little about wine, and don't really care. In fact, I suspect that if the wine wasn't handy, many of them wouldn't even bother making a separate stop to buy some. Wine shops cater to a completely different consumer.

I'll use myself for example. Over the last two weeks:

While shopping in the grocery store, I picked up a couple bottles of Yellow Tail, just to have on hand for drinking or cooking. It was an impulse buy as I pushed my cart through the wine section. I wouldn't have bought them otherwise.

I was invited to someone's home for dinner. I brought two bottles of wine as my contribution and hostess gift. For that, I stopped by my local wine shop to look over the selection and receive advice from the proprietor.

Different situations call for different solutions.

But since so many states do allow wine sales in grocery stores, I'd think it'd be pretty easy to do research on how that has affected wine shops. My guess is not much. In fact, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that the easy availability of wine in grocery stores might even contribute to an increase in wine shop sales as more and more folks consume, enjoy, and learn about wine, leading them to increased knowledge and appreciation. Exactly the kind of customer that patronizes wine shops.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Jaymes (log)

[Steamtrain]

is this a bad or good idea?

sounds like a good idea to me as a consumer

←

No so bad for the consumer , but we need NYS wines in the stores too...

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where should NYS wines be competing?

i think jaymes for me has it right, day to day wines in the grocery store and great wines in the shops

^^very simplified^^

[GordonCooks]

is this a bad or good idea?

sounds like a good idea to me as a consumer

←

From a small business standpoint, Wegmans is a capitalized, dominating player in the market. The addition of in store wine would not stop at the lower and mid-level market. The prefer the upper middle demographic and would, err rather will push any competition out. I don't think it's any secret that this has long been their desire and with the recent purchase of the area's largest wine/spirits store, this is what they're anticipating.

[Fat Guy]

Whether or not grocery-store sales affect wine-store sales, protecting wine stores is not the stated purpose of the regulations that forbid grocery-store sales. The regulations are premised on Puritanical notions of the evils of alcohol, as well as (dubious) claims about youth consumption. If the only reason some wine stores are currently able to stay in business is that there's a poorly justified law giving them a monopoly, I'm not going to cry over their loss. The good ones should be just fine, as they are in states where grocery-store wine sales are already allowed. And certainly, from the standpoint of the consumer, it's a pleasure to be able to buy wine at the grocery store -- especially in places where going to the wine store requires an additional stop in the car.

[GordonCooks]

Whether or not grocery-store sales affect wine-store sales, protecting wine stores is not the stated purpose of the regulations that forbid grocery-store sales. The regulations are premised on Puritanical notions of the evils of alcohol, as well as (dubious) claims about youth consumption. If the only reason some wine stores are currently able to stay in business is that there's a poorly justified law giving them a monopoly, I'm not going to cry over their loss. The good ones should be just fine, as they are in states where grocery-store wine sales are already allowed. And certainly, from the standpoint of the consumer, it's a pleasure to be able to buy wine at the grocery store -- especially in places where going to the wine store requires an additional stop in the car.

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Agreed from consumer standpoint and NYC point of view. But from the Upstate side, it's the small, specialty shops selling boutique and lesser known labels. I'm very much in the minority here but that I don't see how these smaller shops will survive another loss in market share. Pleasing the masses will mean a homogenized selection of popular, high production, wines and no brick & mortar alternatives. Just my .02

[Jaymes]

Pleasing the masses will mean a homogenized selection of popular, high production, wines and no brick & mortar alternatives.

And perhaps you will be right. But I have moved some 37 times in my life, and have lived all over this country (and I mean from Alaska to Florida, New York to Southern California, and most points in between) and nowhere has that been the case. In every single locale where grocery stores sell wine, which has been by far the majority, there are also small boutique wine shops doing just fine. Perhaps they haven't had Wegman's to compete with, but nowhere did they seem to have a "pass" from the local large grocery chain.

The wine shops compete with things like special wine tasting nights, newsletters, lecture series, hosting wine tastings in people's homes, establishing a relationship with customers by knowing their preferences, notifying them of special arrivals of their favorites, intelligent salespeople offering excellent advice, etc. And by just in general fostering an air of clubby upscale knowledge and exclusivity, something completely opposite from the grocery store, where pimply and clueless store clerks often can't even tell you how to find the bread aisle, much less advise you as to what year was best for the white burgundies of France.

I'm currently living in Houston, Texas, where wine sales have been allowed in grocery stores for years. And while nobody would call Spec's "small," it is definitely a "brick & mortar alternative," and it is doing spectacularly well. It's done so by identifying a target market and pleasing them.

If grocers are allowed to sell wine in NY, I'd suggest the current brick & mortar wine shops do the same.

I will say that it's possible that in any given town perhaps there were four or five wine shops and after grocery store sales were allowed, that number dropped to the two or three best. But as Fat Guy says, if the only reason you're still in business is because you're being protected by some archaic law, perhaps you should try harder.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Jaymes (log)

[GordonCooks]

Pleasing the masses will mean a homogenized selection of popular, high production, wines and no brick & mortar alternatives.

And perhaps you will be right. But I have moved some 37 times in my life, and have lived all over this country (and I mean from Alaska to Florida, New Hampshire to Southern California, and most points in between) and nowhere has that been the case. In every single locale where grocery stores sell wine, which has been by far the majority, there are also small boutique wine shops doing just fine. Perhaps they haven't had Wegman's to compete with, but nowhere did they seem to have a "pass" from the local large grocery chain.

The wine shops compete with things like special wine tasting nights, newsletters, lecture series, hosting wine tastings in people's homes, establishing a relationship with customers by knowing their preferences, notifying them of special arrivals of their favorites, intelligent salespeople offering excellent advice, etc. And by just in general fostering an air of clubby upscale knowledge and exclusivity, something completely opposite from the grocery store, where pimply and clueless store clerks often can't even tell you how to find the bread aisle.

I'm currently living in Houston, Texas, where wine sales have been allowed in grocery stores for years. And while nobody would call Spec's "small," it is definitely a "brick & mortar alternative," and it is doing spectacularly well. It's done so by identifying a target market and pleasing them.

If grocers are allowed to sell wine in NY, I'd suggest the current brick & mortar wine shops do the same.

I will say that it's possible that in any given town perhaps there were four or five wine shops and after grocery store sales were allowed, that number dropped to the two or three best. But as Fat Guy says, if the only reason you're still in business is because you're being protected by some archaic law, perhaps you should try harder.

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The things you're talking about the smaller wine shops is what Wegman's is currently doing, quite aggressively as a matter of fact. We're less 3 smaller, neighborhood specialty shops. I can't fault them for being good at what they do - business is business afterall. But I wouldn't want to be on the smaller volume side is weathers the correction.

Edited December 22, 2008 by GordonCooks (log)

[Jaymes]

Well, GC, if Wegman's succeeds in closing all the small specialty shops, that will indeed be a shame. I'll join you in hoping not.

However, it sounds like Wegman's is opening large wine & liquor stores that are having the same effect as selling wine in their grocery stores. So the legislature might just as well go ahead and let everybody sell wine in the grocery stores. Perhaps the competition would do Wegman good. It might make their investment in stand-alone wine stores a waste of money.

[GordonCooks]

Well, GC, if Wegman's succeeds in closing all the small specialty shops, that will indeed be a shame.  I'll join you in hoping not. 

However, it sounds like Wegman's is opening large wine & liquor stores that are having the same effect as selling wine in their grocery stores.  So the legislature might just as well go ahead and let everybody sell wine in the grocery stores.  Perhaps the competition would do Wegman good.  It might make their investment in stand-alone wine stores a waste of money.

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You never know how things like this turn out. Including and beyond grocery, The big "W" is a marketing juggernaut - be it fine dining, boutique chocolate, specialty teas, fine pastry - they will out-hire, out-train, and out-spend you. Like I said, you can't fault them for being good at what they do but sometimes you gotta root for David instead of Goliath.

[Hest88]

Ah, this reminds of the time I was fresh out of college and in NYC visiting friends. As a California girl I thought that on my way to a dinner I'd just pop into the nearest store to pick up a bottle of wine for our hosts. Little did I know...

[Don Giovanni]

is this a bad or good idea?

sounds like a good idea to me as a consumer

←

From a small business standpoint, Wegmans is a capitalized, dominating player in the market. The addition of in store wine would not stop at the lower and mid-level market. The prefer the upper middle demographic and would, err rather will push any competition out. I don't think it's any secret that this has long been their desire and with the recent purchase of the area's largest wine/spirits store, this is what they're anticipating.

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Hey Gordo,

This is why I have made our tasting-room the primary source for my wines...lost on a shelf is no good for anyone...if they do let the hounds out Wegmans will kill all the markets...except farm wineries like mine who specialize in micro lots of quality...

Cheers !!!

[Bill Miller]

I get so tired of this cr-p. The market should rule. If you can't compete use our convienient bankruptcy laws and reorganize. Texas has been a wonderful place since we opened up--I'm ordering wine from Oregon, Napa, Sonoma, Washington, and Zachys in NYC. I still get my local Texas wines--try them --you will be surprised.

STOP PROTECTING MARKETS THAT ARE NOT COMPETATIVE!!!

They will eventually fail after they take more of your money--I'm talking about wine, liquor, and --automobiles!

Edited January 10, 2009 by Bill Miller (log)

[Don Giovanni]

I get so tired of this cr-p. The market should rule. If you can't compete use our convienient bankruptcy laws and reorganize. Texas has been a wonderful place since we opened up--I'm ordering wine from Oregon, Napa, Sonoma, Washington, and Zachys in NYC. I still get my local Texas wines--try them --you will be surprised.

STOP PROTECTING MARKETS THAT ARE NOT COMPETATIVE!!!

They will eventually fail after they take more of your money--I'm talking about wine, liquor, and --automobiles!

←

How the hell is the small producer to exist...do you only want big production wines...they will get shelf space...not the small producer...so screw it I will keep on selling our the front door and handcrafting my wines...will they make us go Bkrupt hell no...will the distributors they pay off the buyers of the big stores with cash...you tell me...

[Carlovski]

I find this quite interesting - In the UK wine sales have for a long time been dominated by big name supermarkets. Most of the wine sold is from large wineries, often selling 'discounted' wines that surely never sold at the original price.

However it hasn't completely destroyed the independent retailer or the specialist chain outlets. And things have actually been improving recently with competition between the major supermarkets 'finest' and 'extra special' own label wines (often just rebadged wines from decent wineries) actually producing some quite decent bottles.

[Bill Miller]

I get so tired of this cr-p. The market should rule. If you can't compete use our convienient bankruptcy laws and reorganize. Texas has been a wonderful place since we opened up--I'm ordering wine from Oregon, Napa, Sonoma, Washington, and Zachys in NYC. I still get my local Texas wines--try them --you will be surprised.

STOP PROTECTING MARKETS THAT ARE NOT COMPETATIVE!!!

They will eventually fail after they take more of your money--I'm talking about wine, liquor, and --automobiles!

←

How the hell is the small producer to exist...do you only want big production wines...they will get shelf space...not the small producer...so screw it I will keep on selling our the front door and handcrafting my wines...will they make us go Bkrupt hell no...will the distributors they pay off the buyers of the big stores with cash...you tell me...

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If you can't compete, fold up your tent and find something else to do. If your product is good enough you will be successful. How do you think state stores help you? That is socialism--only the big prosper in that market--I lived in Pa.--I only got to drink what Big Brother wanted me to---and I couldn't buy from out of state. Don't preach to me!!!

Edited January 15, 2009 by Bill Miller (log)