Smoking Brisket: The Topic

[ronnie_suburban]

Quality work, as usual, woodburner. It takes talent and dedication to turn out flats like that. Nicely done.

Thanks also, for sharing those mouth-watering pics. I also appreciate the mini tutorial about the rub methodology. Very interesting stuff.

=R=

[woodburner]

Thanks, Ian and Ron.

Not only was it fun, it was pretty good woofies.

woodburner

[snowangel]

Beautiful! And I also appreciated the rub system tutorial.

It's breakfast time here in Minnesota and I'm sure wishing I could nibble on brisket!

[woodburner]

Thanks Susan.

Cooking a passable brisket, involves various small techniques that can make or break it.

Look at the image below, and you can see a small break in the top part of the flat on the lower right. I made that small insicion with a knife after examing the meat grain in the raw state, I knew that I would be cutting slices perpendicular to that cut. Cutting in the opposite direction would have caused the brisket to shred.

woodburner

[Abra]

I've considered doing something to mark the grain before cooking - it can often be hard to really see afterwards. I'm glad to see that it works, and next time I'll try it. Especially with flap meat (sometimes called bottom sirloin) the grain is hard to find after I grill it.

[snowangel]

Brisket currently smoking over here.

[rooftop1000]

In one of John Willingham's bbq books, he builds a rub using brown sugar which has been set in the top half of a double boiler and slowly dried, removing excess moisture which then makes it easy to apply to meats without clumping. Here, I've taken my personal collection of ground chile's, and incorporated the sugar into the chile powder.

After the 4 hour mark and during the brisket stall, I re-rub the outside of the brisket on both sides with my "sweet-heat", chile/sugar combination, and put it back on the cooker

woodburner

←

I didnt come check to see exactly what you had used, but while making some ribs Tuesday I remember about the brown sugar rub....I used brown sugar and onion powder a couple of hours in and then brown sugar and hot paprika just before serving...left em on just long enough to melt the sugar. Oh My these where the best ribs I have ever made and maybe the best I have ever eaten. We didnt even notice I forgot to serve sauce. They were sticky and drippy all on their own. Nice crispy edges, pulled right off the bone, and pretty in a pink ring. Cooked 3 hours with damp Kingsford Charcoal and Hickory.

tracey

[woodburner]

Sounds terriffic.

By layering different rubs on at different times seems to help the flavor profile quite a bit, at least to me, and now to you. I have also turned into a non-saucer on many bbq meats.

Makes me wonder why there is such a vast amount of sauces on the market. Is the reason because many people do not really cook the ribs properly.

woodburner

[ronnie_suburban]

. . . Makes me wonder why there is such a vast amount of sauces on the market. Is the reason because many people do not really cook the ribs properly. . .

←

I often wonder about this myself and yes, I think the reason is because most folks don't know how to cook ribs or any other BBQ for that matter.

=R=

[Doc-G]

For those who remember this topic, I am finally about to become initiated in the ways of smoking the Beef Brisket. I'm really excited!!!

I am marinading my Beef Briskets overnight with an adapted colKlink rub and will start smoking them @ 7am tomorrow morning for a 6pm dinner.

They are called 'deckle off' briskets but were very 'untrimmed' so they still have all their fat on them. They weighed about 12 pounds each. I am going to smoke them with a combination of hickory chips and redgum. We will be using a SmoKing oven (a smallgoods smoke oven).

I have also made Mark's Carolina Mustard sauce. I have alot of it and I am thinking of using it to baste my brisket while they smoke.

Firstly, does anyone here think that it is a bad idea to mop the brisket with this sauce throughout the day given the sugar content of the sauce? Should I only baste towards the end? I left most of the fat on to keep it really moist.

Secondly, I am serving it with skillet cornbread ala Rachel Perlow and Apple and Celery 'Arkansas 'slaw' from Steve Raichlen. Is this how it would be typically served in the US?

Do I need to re-heat the cornbread in the oven before I serve it or is it served cold in America? Should I have baked it fresh to serve at dinner?

Besides the beer, what am I missing?

Any last minute tips?

Cheers,

Doc-G

I promise to update with pics of the whole event once it's done and I've recovered!

Edited January 5, 2006 by Doc-G (log)

[snowangel]

I personally would not mop the brisket with a sauce. If you think it needs a mop, just use oil. Not mopping gives people the option of either having sauce (which should be warm or room temp) or not, and makes the leftovers more versatile.

As to the sides, yes, you are right on! I often do cornbread (or not) and slaw is very typical.

And, yes, you probably should have made the cornbread just before eating, but reheat it gently. It doesn't have to be hot, hot, hot.

Remember all of the advice on the other topics. Smoke it low and slow. Keep the heat down on the smoker!

Edited to add: Have fun and be sure and report back!

[Bill Miller]

For those who remember this topic, I am finally about to become initiated in the ways of smoking the Beef Brisket. I'm really excited!!!

I am marinading my Beef Briskets overnight with an adapted colKlink rub and will start smoking them @ 7am tomorrow morning for a 6pm dinner.

They are called 'deckle off' briskets but were very 'untrimmed' so they still have all their fat on them. They weighed about 12 pounds each.

I have also made Mark's Carolina Mustard sauce. I have alot of it and I am thinking of using it to baste my brisket while they smoke.

Firstly, does anyone here think that it is a bad idea to mop the brisket with this sauce throughout the day given the sugar content of the sauce? Should I only baste towards the end? I left most of the fat on to keep it really moist.

Secondly, I am serving it with skillet cornbread ala Rachel Perlow and Apple and Celery 'Arkansas 'slaw' from Steve Raichlen. Is this how it would be typically served in the US?

Do I need to re-heat the cornbread in the oven before I serve it or is it served cold in America? Should I have baked it fresh to serve at dinner?

Besides the beer, what am I missing?

Any last minute tips?

Cheers,

Doc-G

I promise to update with pics of the whole event once it's done and I've recovered!

←

Snowangel is right on. Keep the temp below 250--raise the lid as little as possible. Most Texans do not use a sauce on brisket. The sides are good--add sliced sweet onions, dill pickles, and jalepenos. Cook with the fat side up.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Bill Miller (log)

[fifi]

Yep to the sides. I would maybe add potato salad with a mayo-mustard dressing.

NO to the mopping business. It really won't do anything but disrupt the temperature profile in the smoker. In my Weber Smoky Mountain, I can maintain 225 F at the grate (250 F at the top vent) for many hours without much fiddling and that is what you want. Let it be!

I typically put the rub on and let it sit overnight. I put it in the smoker really cold so that it gets the optimum smoke absorption which supposedly stops at about 140 F. I don't know about that but that is what "they" say.

I can't wait to see how a Texas brisket translates down under. That is a mighty fine looking piece of meat, BTW.

[dls]

Doc-G Good luck on your smoking venture. Keep us posted with pics if you can.

A couple of comments. The sides mentioned by you and others will all work just fine. With brisket, I also like serve some homemade onion rings with a few dashes of cayenne in the batter.

As others have mentioned, don't mop with the sauce. Won't accomplish much and you'll screw up your temps and timing. Sugar content in the sauce could create problems also.

With regard to timing, do you have a backup plan for dinner ? An 11 hour smoke for the brisket(s) you have is, IMO, a stretch. I smoke briskets 1 or 2 times a month and they consistently take 1.5-2 hours / lb. plus a rest of 2-3 hours once I hit my target internal temp of 190F.

Did a 9 lb untrimmed flat a couple of weeks ago as follows.....

Trimmed the fat to a 1/4" cap, mixed rub with mustard and "painted" the brisket. Wrapped and refrigerated. The following evening, at 10:00 PM, unwrapped brisket, added more rub, and put brisket into the smoker cold as fifi mentioned (internal temp was 34F). Set smoker (Cookshack electric) for 200F, had a beer and went to bed. At 8:00 AM the following morning, internal temp was 145F and I raised the smoker temp to 225F. At 4:00 PM, hit target internal of 190F - 18 hours total. Removed brisket, made up a packet with a couple of sheets of HD foil, added a mix of 1/2 cup each apple juice and beef stock, and sealed foil. Then wrapped in a large beach towel and put into a warm Coleman cooler to rest for about 3 hours (internal rose to 196F). Removed, sliced, and served at 7:00 - Perfect.

Again, good luck and keep us posted.

[ronnie_suburban]

I agree with dls about the timing; you may not have enough of it in this case for optimal results. But here's the important thing -- you're doing it. The experience you get from this first venture will be quite valuable going forward.

It's hard to get everything exactly right the first time around, no matter how much good advice you get. Before that, you'll have these initial efforts which will help you greatly down the road. No matter what, it won't be bad this time around and on your next effort you'll have the benefit of this experience under your belt.

=R=

[Doc-G]

Ok it's done!

I cant believe how impressive a beast it really is. I ended up only getting 9 hours in the oven but I did get it to reach 100oC (212oF).

As I said I first concocted the rub.

and got the meat ready with minimal trimming

and applied the rub to the meat and placed it in the smoke oven:

Anyway after nine hours of smoking with a combination of hickory and redgum it looked something like this:

And finally when plated up with sides looked something like this:

Texas Beef Brisket served with 'Arkansas 'slaw'' and bacon cord bread

The meat was extremely tender and the flavour was something of another dimension. It really was beef heaven!

To anyone who has not tried this before, the closest thing would be to say that it is as tender as a braised lamb shank and with the beefy flavour profile and intensity of beef jerky!

In other words, it is difficult to describe how good it is but I can assure you, it is totally worth every second of effort put in.

I still have 7 briskets like this sitting in my freezer at work. I will try to find out ways to improve it. One thing for sure will be longer cooking time.

The other thing was that the edges of the meat were pretty dry whilst the bits that were covered in fat were very juicy (for obvious reasons). I was wondering however if there is anything I could have done to fix this for next time?

Also, I did not observe an obvious smoke ring. How can I get this to be more prominent? Should I even worry about it?

The other thing is to try it with a Wagyu brisket. All that fat will be for an ultimate cause. The other thing is that the flavour profile of the Wagyu will intensify the already 'full on' flavour that the smoked brisket carries.

Anyway, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for all for your help and tips and most of all encouragement.

Having eaten at Arzak, Le Manoir au Quatre Saisons, Chez Nico....etc I can say that this whilst extremely close to being one of the best pieces of meat I have ever eaten was certainly the most exciting thing I have EVER done with food.

I hope you like the pics!

Cheers,

Doc-G

Edited January 7, 2006 by Doc-G (log)

[woodburner]

Very nice.

Could you post some photo's of your smoke oven with some explanations?

In the above photo I've applied a second rub application halfway through the cooking time. Something you might consider.

I don't have an explanation yet on why you have no visable smoke ring.

woodburner

[nathanm]

Smokers like Doc-G are using use small wood chips which are burned on a hot plate smoke generator. Generally they smolder at fairly low temperature (under 600F) and do not produce enough nitric oxide to create a smoke ring. In order to get a smoke ring you need to burn at a higher temperature - either with solid wood, or pellets or another source which is really burning (600F to 750F usually). Note that I am talking about the temperature of the actual combustion, not the temperature of the air around the meat! Air temperature in smokers is usually below 225F.

The high combustion temperature produces nitrogen dioxide gas that penetrates the meat and creates the smoke ring. It works best if the meat surface is moist, and as a result happens early in the cooking process. Here is an explanation by a meat scientist at Iowa State University.

There are two points of view you can take on the lack of the smoke ring. On one hand, the smoke ring is traditionally used to judge the quality of the smoking in barbeque contests and the like. So from that standpoint a smoker that does not produce a smoke ring may seem inferior.

On the other hand it is not clear to me that it is really necessary for flavor - I am not sure you could tell the difference if you tasted blindfolded. It would be interesting to find out in a carefully controlled test.

It is possible that you can taste the smoke ring in the final product, but I think it is equally possible that the smoke ring is more of a by-product that is diagnostic of good barbeque technique rather than something you can taste. Unfortunately one aspect of the barbeque world is that peolpe often seem to have strong opinions about what is true and false, but don't always have strong evidence to back it up.

This site by the "Dr of BBQ" claims that it is purely aesthetic.

Propane or gas fired grills can produce a smoke ring without any wood whatsoever, because nitrogen dioxide can be formed in propane combustion. This tends to argue that it is not as important as people think.

Note that I have both kinds of smokers - one that produces a smoke ring, and one that does not. I have cooked on competition barbeque teams, and I am very familiar with what barbeque is supposed to taste like.

The red smoke ring in the meat is similar chemically to the red color in meat cured with sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate (also known as prague powder, tender quick, curing salt, pink salt). These curing salts do produce a pronounced taste in fully cured meat - the taste of cured meat (i.e. ham versus pork, summer sausage versus fresh sausage). However is not clear to me from what I have read whether the cured taste of curing salts is related to color change - i.e. nitrogen dioxide gas and curing salt both create the color, but the cured meat taste has more to do with the concentration of the curing salt itself and its interaction with the meat proteins, not the chemical reaction that causes color change.

You can use curing salts to create a smoke-ring like effect, and many people do that for barbeque. Purists regard this as a "fake smoke ring".

[fifi]

Well, Doc-G . . . Now you know what all the fuss is about.

I am going to make a guess about the smoke ring. The first clue is that it only went 9 hours. You didn't say what temperature the smoker was operating at. The deepest smoke ring I ever achieved was one day when I had some trouble maintaining 225F (107C) at the grate in the Weber bullet. That is my typical smoking temperature. It rocked around more like 210F (98C). It took the tip portion almost 18 hours to cook. I think I pulled the flat portion after about 15 hours. The brisket was about the same size as yours.

This confirms what I saw at a little BBQ joint in, of all places, Pahoa on the Big Island of Hawaii. This guy hauls out this little brisket flat to slice some for our sandwich. That sucker was deep pink all the way through! I offhandedly accused him of using nitrate on it. He almost came after me with the slicing knife. After I got him calmed down, he told me that the secret was to do it really slow. He thought that the smoker temperature was about 180-190F (82-87C) and it went almost 24 hours. He used lots of Kiawe wood, which is related to our mesquite here in Texas. Oh . . . It wasn't dry at all. The juices ran as he sliced it. The meat almost melted in your mouth.

I haven't tried to duplicate that flat but I do aim a bit lower on the temperature for brisket.

Here in Texas, we call the rather dry parts the "ends" and sometimes the guy slicing the brisket will ask if you want "ends or middles." One of the fun things about brisket is the range of textures you can get.

I can't wait to hear about Wagyu brisket.

[fifi]

Oops. Cross posted with nathanm. What he said. I think what was going on in the Weber that day was that with the lower temperature there was more time for the nitrous oxides to penetrate the meat. I use wood chunks pretty liberally along with the charcoal.

[ronnie_suburban]

Great job, Doc. The finished product looks excellent and I can tell from your description that you made it to the promised land

I know you mentioned upthread that your briskets were without their deckels, but in the early pics, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Now that round one is done, are there already some things which come to mind that you'd do differently next time around?

Again, great job and thanks for sharing!

=R=

[Bill Miller]

You did good young man!! Wood pieces soaked water added to the charcoal is the key to the ring. I smoked one for four hours that way--lost my fire, wrapped in foil and finished in the oven and still got a beautiful ring-- not a bad way to cook it either.

[Doc-G]

Hi there,

Thanks for all the comments.

Firstly the oven that I am using: It is called a SMO-KING Turbo 1100 and is used primarily for smoking smallgoods. To use it you switch it on, set the oven temperature to desired temp and then choose whether to cook with a timer or temperature probe. If using timer, set time and oven will switch off after said time has elapsed. If using Temperature probe (as I did with this brisket), you set the temperature for the probe and the oven will switch off when the probe reaches the said temperature. There are a couple pics below:

This is of the oven. Temperature and smoke are separate issues. It is possible to have the oven on with no smoke or you can have the oven on at any temperature with smoke. As nathanm stated above, the wood goes into a tray as seen in the pics below of the wood and is heated by an electric element in the tray.

This pic demonstrates the two dials used for oven temp and probe temp. This picture was taken during 'brisket stall'. It took only 4 hours for the meat to go from 4oC up to 80oC but then another 5 hours to go from 80oC to 100oC. I'm sure you are all familiar with this phenomenon.

With regards to the chips I used:

Redgum (fine) and Hickory (coarse and soaked in water for an hour) were used in my smoke oven.

Maybe if I used my BBQ at home next time for Brisket, I could get the smoke ring. I have a gas burner with a smoke box attached. I used the smoke oven at work for a number of reasons. Firstly, it meant I could cook it whilst at work and secondly, the smoke oven is so easy to use and requires very little attention. I'm not sure if I would have the same control over my BBQ at home.

Next time I cook it, I will definetly go for a longer period.

Also as stated previously, I will also try using Wagyu.

As for deckle on/deckle off, I am only going by what was said on the side of the box. Either the meat packer left it on and just put it in the box anyway (reasonably likely!) but I wasn't sure how it was supposed to look anyway so I just assumed it was deckle off as the box said. I will try to remember to have a proper look at the other briskets I have to see if they look any different.

Anyway, thanks again for all your input. It was a great exercise and the most BEEFY experience I have ever had....and that's no BULL!!! lol

Cheers,

Doc-G

Edited January 7, 2006 by Doc-G (log)

[sarashrugs]

I've been reading about techniques and I had such a rewarding experience with my bbq pork butt I can't wait to try this. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions.

[Luckylies]

get a spritz bottle and fill it with apple cider, vinegar, salt etc. and spray your brisket every few hours until you get bored of spritzing.

For a large whole brisket, reserve AT LEAST 17 hrs for it to hit 195-200f.

Get a big cooler so you can foil it, towel it and rest it for a bit. It really improves the meat (in my opinion)

pop the brisket (rubbed) in the freezer for about 45 mins before you smoke it (helps with smoke flavor)

dont be afraid to oversmoke, brisket is pretty resilient.

DO NOT TRIM THE FAT. ANY OF IT. you could trim it later if you were so inclined, but, really, why?

invite friends.