Gift for lover of Jack+Coke, Rum+Coke?

[tavogels]

I need to get a thank-you gift for a boss who went above-and-beyond to cover for a pleb (me) on vacation. Thought about a nice bottle of wine, but heard "inside info" that BOSS' drinks of choice are jack and diet coke and rum and diet coke, drinks about which I know nothing other than what their eponymous names suggest.

Anyone have good ideas for liquors besides good ol' fashioned Jack Daniels and/or Bacardi White (no disrespect to them intended) that are a little more "upscale" or, perhaps put better, a little more "gift worthy"? I'm ok with taking BOSS a little out of his/her comfort zone if it's worth it, but if folks think there's no sense improving on a good thing, I'll stick to the basics. Thanks in advance for all replies!

[Alcuin]

Are you thinking of something that's going to be mixed with coke? Or do you want to get a whiskey or rum that's worthy of sipping straight?

I might be wrong (not being an jack/rum and coke drinker myself), but it seems to me that the value of a gift-worthy liquor would be lost if mixed with diet coke.

[thirtyoneknots]

Alcuin makes the obvious (but good) point that sweet mixers will typically cover up the more interesting characteristics of better liquors, but that said there are a few that I think might be on the fence, price-wise that are sufficiently unique in character and delicious that it might tempt a "and coke" drinker to try the naked creature out, it might even become their gateway to a new world of liquor appreciation. My votes are for Eagle Rare 10 yr in the Whiskey category and Cruzan Single Barrel in the rum department. You should be able to find either for about $25/btl, and while both are artisinal products worthy of the snifter, neither is so rare or exotic that I would cringe at giving them to someone who would probably mix them with coke. The Cruzan Single Barrel in particular has a charcoal/woodshop character to it that might appeal to the lover of both Jack Daniels' and rum. It might be worth tactfully noting in giving the gift that these are just as good on the rocks or neat as with Coke.

Hope this helps.

-Andy

[MattJohnson]

One other thing to think about. It seems the point of the gift is to show that you noticed and appreciate his help, not to get him to drink good booze. It seems to me that Crown Royal is seen as a household name for a higher end booze. That may do the trick. I've never drank it, but I've seen it given as gifts and people appreciate it... ymmv.

That said, if you don't want to go that route, I second the eagle rare 10 year. Its a really nice bourbon for the price and I think the packaging is quite classy.

[bigbear]

If he likes Jack Daniel's, get him a different brand of Tennessee whiskey. George Dickel No:12 is quite respectable.

Edited July 25, 2008 by bigbear (log)

[tavogels]

Thanks to all for the helpful responses!

[brinza]

You could always just move up a few notches within the Jack Daniels product line and go for Gentlemen Jack, or better yet, the Single Barrel. That way, if he still chooses to mix it, he'll have the familiarity, but then again he just might be inclined to try it straight. The Single Barrel would show both that you know what he likes and that you went for something above what he probably normally buys for himself (not to mention it is very good--I'm not really a Jack drinker, but it's hard to not like the SB).

[db_campbell]

I've used this thread to give myself a little weekend project, as well as to hopefully provide some good info (if you haven't purchased the boss' hooch already). I took 12 mid-range Bourbons / TN Whiskies from my cabinet, mixed them in a 3:2 ratio with 8 oz. glass bottle Coca-Cola (0.75 Bourbon, 0.5 oz Coke, 1 large ice cube), took down tasting notes, and affixed a score out of a ten point scale. Hope this proves informative:

Gentleman Jack: Classic JD aroma, a little earthy/grassy on the palate; generally mellow flavour profile, though at this ratio it still dominates the cola. As the ice melts, it rounds out the grassy characteristic, though not completely. 5.5

JD Single Barrel #6-1859: Fairly indistinct on the nose; the classic TN whiskey straw-note dovetails w/ the cola flavour to create a massively expansive earthy/sweet dynamic on the palate. The reserved nose may be a white noise of sorts resulting from this interaction. Eminently drinkable, even moreso than what would be the seemingly more restrained 80 proof Gentleman. 8

Buffalo Trace: Seamlessly integrates into the cola, retaining all the original cola character one could want, while providing the stern Bourbon backbone one would expect. Flavours of spice, with a slight hint at vanilla. 8.5

Weller Antique: The syrupy flavour of the Weller Antique - backed by its 107 proof - shines thru, merely using the cola sweetness as momentum-fuel for its steam engine-like assault on the palate. While a bit on the intense side and lacking complexity, at least the singular note it provides the palate is enjoyable. 6.5

Old Rip Van Winkle 10 yr: This is the 107 proof variety, not the more recent 90 proof iteration. Surprisingly astringent nose; attacks the palate like its stable-mate, the Weller Antique, and incorporates the same type of syrup element, yet retains a more nuanced panache - almost touching on the grassiness of the JD offerings, but then drawing back. An elegant dram, if a slight misuse of the ORVW. 7.5

W. L. Weller 12 yr: Very reserved; the oak melds with the cola, but provides a deeper-note contrasting backdrop to the higher-note cola. One almost tastes two concurrent drinks, producing a slight, though not off-putting dissonance. 7

Elmer T. Lee Single Barrel [no barrel # provided]: The HFCS of the cola merely adds an onerous sweetness to the Bourbon, resulting in a sickly cacaphony of high-flying flavours. Really underrated Bourbon; really poor utilisation. 4

Old Forester: This is the 100 proof, but not the Signature. Nose is evocative of maple; this is confirmed on the palate in a very lively fashion. It's sweeter than most, almost asymptotically approaches cloying -- and falls just shy. This is a very engaging beverage that some may find a tad sweet, though others will be inevitably entranced by its playfulness. 7.5

Elijah Craig 12 yr: The oak is prominent, yet doesn't clash with or overpower the cola. Rather, the sweetness of the cola just sort of glissades over the woodiness of the Bourbon. A much more suave Bourbon & coke, and really a new take on the genre. 8.5

Woodford Reserve: Fairly powerful stuff, surprising for the 90.4 proof. One doesn't taste the coke so much as one tastes a slightly-gussied up .. .. Woodford Reserve; which isn't a bad drink, mind you, it just sort of tends to blow apart the entire purpose of this exercise. 7.5

Old Grand-Dad 114: First off, this is just such a great-smelling Bourbon. So deep, so rich, so seductive, so cinnamon-spicy. As for the mixed drink, it's simply marvelous. The cola suffuses perfectly with the rich flavours of the OGD, never supplanting, simply highlighting. If the Elijah 12 is a new take on the genre, this is a transformative experience within the genre. 9.5 (simply because I refuse to bust out the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection on principle)

FWIW, the preceding was also the first of the bunch to possess a noticeable finish.

Wild Turkey Rare Breed Batch # WT-03RB: Impressive stuff; I've still yet to find a bad application for the Rare Breed. Very upfront spice notes, which eventually recedes into a gradually enveloping classical cola flavour. This drink possesses no discernable flaws, yet lacks that immediate wow-factor that made the OGD 114 such a transcendental "... & Coke" experience (and also the finish). 9

EDIT: proper spelling

Edited August 1, 2008 by db_campbell (log)

[markemorse]

Awesome weekend project.

[Dave the Cook]

I'll say. With a new weekend upon us, who's volunteering to do the same for rum?

[Chris Amirault]

I can't imagine why db_campell had to recheck spelling after all those tests.

[maggiethecat]

Awesome weekend project.

←

Gosh, what a lavish expenditure of time, money and brain cells. Totally tubular.

In response to Dave's question, I nominate db for the job and look forward to reading the field research.

[Fat Guy]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

I wonder if this can be expanded upon to include other cocktails. I've often heard it said that, for example, good tequila is wasted in a Margarita. But in drinking Margaritas made with better and worse tequilas, I think I've noticed plenty of differences -- albeit never in a systematic tasting format.

[db_campbell]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

I think generally, you'd be dead on in your initial assessment, for two reasons. The first, most often when you get a whiskey & coke, it's going to inevitably be almost an entire glassful of coke, with an ounce - maybe two - of whiskey. Since I like my highballs a wee bit stiffer, I turned those ratios around, which served to really highlight what the coke does to the whiskey, rather than what the whiskey does to the coke.

Secondly, whiskey & coke tends to be a slamming type drink for most people, whereas I took the time to ponder after each sip as if I were tasting a well-made cocktail or even a malt. Even minute differences will become exposed under such scrutiny.

I suppose I'll cull the cabinet tonight for a dozen decent rums, and get started on that tomorrow ...

[Dave the Cook]

You're spot-in with the typical recreational use of X + Coke: it's an ounce of two of spirits and four or five of cola in a beer stein. That's a recipe for getting drunk as fast as possible without having to actually taste the liquor.

Gary Regan lists more restrained proportions in Joy of Cocktails:

Cuba Libre

2 ounces light rum

1 ounce lime juice

3 ounces cola

Bourbon and Coke

2 ounces bourbon

3 ounces cola

These respect both the spirit and the mixer, and make for more interesting cocktails.

[Jon Savage]

On the rum front I'd recommend Zaya. Even the 20 YO stuff is reasonably affordable around $20- a bottle. Great for sipping OK for mixing.

[db_campbell]

On the rum front I'd recommend Zaya. Even the 20 YO stuff is reasonably affordable around $20- a bottle. Great for sipping OK for mixing.

←

Wow, that's impressive. In Florida, the best price I've seen on the Zaya 12 yr is low 30s.

Rums; same rules and procedures as before. Ed Hamilton will most likely have my head for this ....

Flor de Cana Extra Dry 4 yr: Seems to really highlight the floral aspect of the rum; spirit does a good job of not allowing the coke to take over, considering it's a white rum. Nothing spectacular, but perfectly acceptable Spring/Summer drinking. 7

Ten Cane: Fairly astringent nose. Features a really biting attack, sort of evocative of what I imagine thorn bushes would taste like. Of course that makes it sound far worse than it actually is, but this is a remarkably harsh beverage (not alcohol-wise, but from an integration of flavour standpoint) for such a simple concoction. **In the interest of full disclosure, I've had this bottle open for just over two years now, though it's still at least 2/3 full, so oxidation shouldn't be at play. Perhaps there's a reason so little has been emptied. 4.5

Appleton V/X: Surprisingly, tends to possess the same general flavour profile of the Ten Cane version, but with more depth, better integration, and a bit of a honeyed character. Still isn't close to being the best representative of the style, though. From sampling these last two, it seems that the more dry, edgier, idiosyncratic rums tend to not play as well with cola as their tamer brethren might. 6

Cruzan Blackstrap: Deep, caramalised nose. Huge syrup note on the palate, borders on becoming too sweet, but then the inherent heaviness of the Blackstrap dials this back. Enjoyable drink, though the rum tends to dominate the cola a tad too much for my liking. 7.5

Pyrat Pistol: Tastes like a thinned-out version of Creole Shrubb with a heavier emphasis on the orange peel. Having just opened the bottle for this exercise, I can't imagine how orange-y the rum must taste on its own, sans cola. Late emphasis on spice comes through, once your palate's finished wrapping itself around the gigantic orange presence. Slightly musty. Not bad, just - - wow, how's this not a flavoured rum? 7.5

Pyrat XO: I can detect no discernable difference between this rum and the Pistol when mixed with cola, except the XO seems to taste slightly deeper, and smell a smidge more musty. 7.5

Ron Centenario Conmemorativo: The honey flavour of the rum really comes through here, with just enough age to balance the sweetness of the cola. A couple integration issues seem to persist, as the cola and rum appear to be engaging in a bit of a tussle for the palate's affections, but overall a very enjoyable drink. 8

Diplomatico Reserva: The rum's heavy vanilla note explodes through the palate, but effortlessly welcomes the cola without any issues of balance. Fully integrated, this is a single coherent beverage, devoid of any infighting amongst the constituent elements. Only marked down due to the extremity of the vanilla at the exclusion of any other flavours. 8.5

Diplomatico Reserva Exclusiva: Spice explosion. The spice-laden Reserva Exclusiva carries the cola perfectly with seamless integration. Think the Diplomatico Reserva, but replace the vanilla with a plethora of less-distinct spices. Wonderful. 9.5

Barbancourt 15 yr: I was expecting this to suffer from the same issues that plagued both the Ten Cane and the Appleton V/X, knowing the Barbancourt 15 to be among the drier of the aged rums. Surprisingly, while hinting at that thorny / bushy characteristic that I'm not terribly adept at describing, the age of the rum really serves to carry the beverage through toward enjoyability. It's still not nearly as suave as the Diplomaticos, or even the Conmemorativo, but relative to expectation this drink accounted itself well. 7.5

Ron Matusalem 15 yr: Very deep. The Matusalem's vanilla shines initially, though gives way on the end-palate and finish to a heavier, more nuanced spice tone. Fully integrated. Almost completely splits the difference between the two Diplomaticos, though carries with it an overall deeper character. 9

Ron Zacapa 23 yr: In terms of depth, this is the Russian bass of the dozen. Flawlessly suave, this itself is ironically also the largest flaw of the drink -- the Zacapa 23 is so smooth and understated, that one feels as if he/she is drinking a heavier form of Coca-Cola. Little flavour development ensues, beyond what is inherent within the cola. Simply put, this is a misapplication of an eminently suave rum. 8

[slkinsey]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

As others have pointed out, these are iconoclastic highballs he's making there. A typical highball would be something like 1.5 ounces of spirit in a 9 ounce glass with ice and a fill-up of lengthener to the tune of 4 ounces or so. And I should point out that these wouldn't necessarily be crap drinks, either. This is a fairly classic ratio. In contrast, db_campbell's version would be around 3 ounces of spirit with 2 ounces of lengthener. It's no surprise that the quality and qualities of the spirit would be much more important in this kind of drink. It's also no surprise that a high proof, fairly dry (as these things go) bourbon with big flavors like Old Grand Dad would come through the strong, sweet flavors of Coca-Cola better than others. As a general rule of thumb, more intensely flavored and higher proof spirits (these often go hand-in-hand) do better in long drinks, because the flavors and alcohol are able to carry through. And it stands to reason that a dryer spirit would do better than a sweeter one when it is being combined with lengthener as sweet as Coca-Cola. This is not usually an issue with most spirits (no brand of gin is going to make one G&T appreciable sweeter than another), but bourbons can be quite sweet and often seem to potentiate sweet flavors around them. What's nice about db_campbell's results is that OGD 114 isn't terribly expensive.

[The Drinkist]

Great stuff. My hat is off to you, db_campbell. Those are some really solid tasting notes.

Personally, I have a weakness for X + coke style drinks that I don't usually admit in proper cocktail circles. They let me get caffeine in the system along with the alcohol so I can have them first thing in the morning or as a quick pick-me-up during a night out on the town. A nice, straightforward, simple pleasure.

With these whiskey and rum tasting notes in hand, I'm now wondering what experience people might have had with colas besides the HFCS versionof Coca-Cola. I've had pleasant experiences mixing sugar-cane sweetened versions from Latin America with rum. Anybody else tried any of the other colas, especially the "premium" ones, in a highball? Anything that didn't work as well as expected?

[brinza]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

As others have pointed out, these are iconoclastic highballs he's making there. A typical highball would be something like 1.5 ounces of spirit in a 9 ounce glass with ice and a fill-up of lengthener to the tune of 4 ounces or so. And I should point out that these wouldn't necessarily be crap drinks, either. This is a fairly classic ratio. In contrast, db_campbell's version would be around 3 ounces of spirit with 2 ounces of lengthener. It's no surprise that the quality and qualities of the spirit would be much more important in this kind of drink.

←

Wouldn't that then make these more cocktail-like drinks than highballs or long drinks? I'm saying that even though the second ingredient is in fact soda, the proportion in which it is used in more like what would be used in a cocktail. And thinking of the sweetness of the soda, it's being used more like a liqueur than a lengthener. I wonder what it would be like to use flat cola. It sounds strange, but it could be interesting. The drink would have an entirely different texture.

[tsquare]

Okay, I am counting - did you drink or swish and spit those cocktails?

11 x .75 = 8.25 ounces of whiskey (and a little more rum.) Even over two days I wouldn't be able to function. Slight exageration - less than 4 standard mixed drinks. I suppose that is doable, maybe even one long evening if you are well trained.

In Guatemala, the Ron Zacapa was served at the Coppola Eco Resort neat Tikal as an after dinner drink - neat. They would not mix it, even at a customer's request.

Hat's off to you.

[thirtyoneknots]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

As others have pointed out, these are iconoclastic highballs he's making there. A typical highball would be something like 1.5 ounces of spirit in a 9 ounce glass with ice and a fill-up of lengthener to the tune of 4 ounces or so. And I should point out that these wouldn't necessarily be crap drinks, either. This is a fairly classic ratio. In contrast, db_campbell's version would be around 3 ounces of spirit with 2 ounces of lengthener. It's no surprise that the quality and qualities of the spirit would be much more important in this kind of drink.

←

Wouldn't that then make these more cocktail-like drinks than highballs or long drinks? I'm saying that even though the second ingredient is in fact soda, the proportion in which it is used in more like what would be used in a cocktail. And thinking of the sweetness of the soda, it's being used more like a liqueur than a lengthener. I wonder what it would be like to use flat cola. It sounds strange, but it could be interesting. The drink would have an entirely different texture.

←

Couple of dashes of bitters and I think that would pass as a cocktail in anyone's book, recognizeable even to the Ancients of Mixology.

[Alcuin]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

As others have pointed out, these are iconoclastic highballs he's making there. A typical highball would be something like 1.5 ounces of spirit in a 9 ounce glass with ice and a fill-up of lengthener to the tune of 4 ounces or so. And I should point out that these wouldn't necessarily be crap drinks, either. This is a fairly classic ratio. In contrast, db_campbell's version would be around 3 ounces of spirit with 2 ounces of lengthener. It's no surprise that the quality and qualities of the spirit would be much more important in this kind of drink.

←

Wouldn't that then make these more cocktail-like drinks than highballs or long drinks? I'm saying that even though the second ingredient is in fact soda, the proportion in which it is used in more like what would be used in a cocktail. And thinking of the sweetness of the soda, it's being used more like a liqueur than a lengthener. I wonder what it would be like to use flat cola. It sounds strange, but it could be interesting. The drink would have an entirely different texture.

←

Couple of dashes of bitters and I think that would pass as a cocktail in anyone's book, recognizeable even to the Ancients of Mixology.

←

Another possibility might be to reduce the cola into a syrup. Build 2 oz bourbon/rye, 1/2 oz cola syrup, bitters, lemon twist could be an interesting Old Fashioned variation (the "Cola Fashioned"?).

[db_campbell]

Okay, I am counting - did you drink or swish and spit those cocktails?

11 x .75 = 8.25 ounces of whiskey (and a little more rum.) Even over two days I wouldn't be able to function. Slight exageration - less than 4 standard mixed drinks. I suppose that is doable, maybe even one long evening if you are well trained.

In Guatemala, the Ron Zacapa was served at the Coppola Eco Resort neat Tikal as an after dinner drink - neat. They would not mix it, even at a customer's request.

Hat's off to you.

←

The whiskies I tasted over two days, Thursday & Friday of last week. Since I decided to sample all the rums on Saturday afternoon, I set up both my tasting glass as well as a "refuse glass." Once I had sipped enough of the drink to glean all the impressions I needed, I'd simply pour the remainder of each of the 12 into the additional glass. I figured this to be the best way of ensuring both accuracy of impressions and lucidity of prose.

Of course, after I had posted, I then settled down to play some video games while polishing off the contents of the refuse glass.

Incidentally, it was the third time I had mixed the Zacapa 23. The first was before I was truly aware of what I had gotten my hands on, and the second when a buddy of mine challenged me to the "Abominations in Drinking Game" -- using infinitesimal amounts of one's most valuable liquors in short versions of highballs and cocktails. It's the drinking game where no one ever wins

Have you ever tasted the Zacapa 15 yr? It's my goal to pick that up the next time I'm down in Florida ..

[thirtyoneknots]

I think it's amazing and unexpected that there's so much variation in whiskey-and-Coke blends. I would have loudly proclaimed, before reading here, that it's a total waste to use a better whiskey in this application -- I'd have said the Coke makes them all taste the same. Now I know it's Old Grand-Dad 114 all the way.

As others have pointed out, these are iconoclastic highballs he's making there. A typical highball would be something like 1.5 ounces of spirit in a 9 ounce glass with ice and a fill-up of lengthener to the tune of 4 ounces or so. And I should point out that these wouldn't necessarily be crap drinks, either. This is a fairly classic ratio. In contrast, db_campbell's version would be around 3 ounces of spirit with 2 ounces of lengthener. It's no surprise that the quality and qualities of the spirit would be much more important in this kind of drink.

←

Wouldn't that then make these more cocktail-like drinks than highballs or long drinks? I'm saying that even though the second ingredient is in fact soda, the proportion in which it is used in more like what would be used in a cocktail. And thinking of the sweetness of the soda, it's being used more like a liqueur than a lengthener. I wonder what it would be like to use flat cola. It sounds strange, but it could be interesting. The drink would have an entirely different texture.

←

Couple of dashes of bitters and I think that would pass as a cocktail in anyone's book, recognizeable even to the Ancients of Mixology.

←

Another possibility might be to reduce the cola into a syrup. Build 2 oz bourbon/rye, 1/2 oz cola syrup, bitters, lemon twist could be an interesting Old Fashioned variation (the "Cola Fashioned"?).

←

I seem to recall that cooking Coke or other soft drinks will alter their flavor in a negative way, thus making reductions difficult. I really wanted to try this same idea some time back except with aged rums. Finding Coke syrup not in a bag proved difficult, and the next closest thing, Rose's Cola Tonic, didn't yield the hoped-for results (I think the Rose's is lacking in vanilla flavor).