Grooms cake

[highchef]

Being the mother of the groom, I wantend a personal part of my sons wedding. I decided to make his grooms cake, with everyone's permission. Since there are going to be (at least 250) a lot of people there, and the wedding cake is all that, I thought I'd be a little smaller. I'm going to make 3 cakes to resemble a drum set. My son is a musician, and he and fiance' met while he was drummer in (of course) a rock n roll band. I am going to do two cakes @ 14" and 4 @ 12" for a total of 3 cakes with 4 layers each. I'm going to crumb coat the exteriors, and buttercream the sides before adding the fondant to the top and edges. The cakes will be split, with 4 layers each. The largest will be chocolate, and the other 2 vanilla, with one lemon curd and the other possibly a nut paste..undecided. I have a 3 tiered server that will hold from 14", and will spread out to make the drum set.

Question is..I'd really like to make the cake before hand and freeze it. I've read the other threads about this and it seems like if you do the cake in advance, you screw the cake. Please, please, pleaseeleesssss tell me a way to do this. PLease??

If I sound desperate, it's because I've been reading so many threads and books and I AM totally confused. Is the cake messed up because it's butter based? So is there a recipe that can be frozen and come out fresh? It's very important to me that the cake taste GREAT. That's what is important to me, and I think the crumb layer will allow those who wish to take off the fondant to still have some frosting. I'm not worried about the decorations, but am worried about the perfect tasting cakes. advice? wedding is in July, in Louisiana, but very controlled environment for reception.

Thanks for listening.

Edited February 26, 2008 by highchef (log)

[chefpeon]

Are you saying you want to make the whole cake including decorating it first before you freeze it?

Or are you saying you just want to bake the cakes and freeze them, then decorate them just before the wedding?

For the latter, you will not lose quality if you wrap the cakes well and freeze them right away.

For the former, that's a lot trickier. Freezing cakes with fondant decorations is NOT a good idea.

They're fine frozen, it's just that the thawing part is tricky. Depending on your climate conditions, the interior of the cake, the kind of fondant you use, and how it's thawed are all factors. Two really bad factors for you are "July" and "Lousiana".

Humidity is the enemy of fondant. Add some heat in there and there's even more trouble. I know from personal experience that a frozen cake coming up to room temperature in my non-humid MILD climate (60 degrees) covered with fondant turned into a drippy icky mess. I don't actually know if this might have been alleviated if I had brought the cake out of it's frozen state in the refrigerator slowly, but somehow I think the results would have been the same.

My professional and safest advice to you is, freeze the cake with the crumb coat on it, but do not apply the fondant and other decorations until the cake is thawed, but still cold, from the refrigerator.

This is the safest thing to do. If you choose otherwise, then, well, that's the risk you elect to take.

[JeanneCake]

I agree with Annie - in the same situation I'd bake and freeze the unassembled cakes; then use a simple syrup to add a little moisture (and perhaps flavor, depending on what you end up with for flavors) when assembling them. Butter cakes tend to be perceived as drier than cakes made with other fats so the syrup will help with that.

But definitely don't freeze the cakes fully decorated with fondant; it's hard to bring them back out of the deep freeze without ruining the look of the fondant. I would prefer to freeze the layers rather than freeze the crumbcoated cake - but that's just my preference; I like to have two coats of buttercream under the fondant or a single thicker layer of buttercream.

Good luck!

[K8memphis]

Here's an idea to maybe and hopefully relieve some of that anxiety and give you confidence about your endeavor. Collect some recipes and do some testing. I suggest that you cut your formulas in half* so you don't go nutso with cake over load.

I could not agree more with Annie and Jeanne. One thing I do different though is that I splash my cakes before I freeze them because I like to just grab them out of the freezer and slap on the icing & decorate etc. It's so messy to assemble cake. I like to have all that messy part finished before I get to the final finishing. It helps my head to know that they are resting comfortably in the box waiting for the appointed time for extreme makeover.

Pour moi, I find that butter used to make my cakes will not relax enough after freezing so the cake can seem dry (even though it's a mouth feel thing rather than truly being dry) but I did not test out recipes to find one that would endure the freeze/thaw thing well either. I already had recipes that work great so I use those.

And of course, you know you will forfeit crucial time there right at the dawn of celebrating a new family being born to pursue your own passion of creating and delivering and setting up your artwork. Getting 'in the zone' under those circumstances will be quite intense. Plan plan plan. Have at least one back up plan for everything.

*When I do stuff like this I divide by the number of eggs. If a recipe calls for four eggs I quarter the rest of the ingredients. If it calls for three eggs I divide the remaining ingredients by three. That's how I do it but I overthink everything too.

Here's one for starters:

"So this is a great formula that is very common in cake circles--yes it does involve 'pre-measured' ingredients. You make yours any way you want. This makes a great wedding cake that will serve and stack great. One box Duncan Hines cake mix, one cup self-rising flour, one cup super-fine sugar, teaspoon vanilla extract, teaspoon of almond extract, cup of sour cream, three egg whites, one egg, one and a third cups of water and two tablespoons of oil."

And I have a great recipe in recipe gullet for chocolate cake--I now put some gelatin in the filling. mmmm And the chocolate cake recipe on the Hershey's can is super too.

To me the cake is a vehicle for the filling and icing. If your filling and icings are fresh and lovely you'll make magic cake. Not to mention all the love that goes in.

[highchef]

Thanks everyone. No I was not going to decorate before hand, just bake the cakes. There was a thread that suggested wrapping them while still warm and freezing, I'll have to find it. I am just afraid that freezing the cakes before hand will leave me a 'dry' cake. I need the time the day of rehersal to do other things.

Question: Do you think I should use what I know is a good recipe (I want to try the above mix as well, and compare fresh and frozen) sprinkle syrup, crumb coat then freeze, or just slice and freeze the layers...or even not slice but freeze the layers for easier cutting when putting together, and then add the syrup crumb coat and finally decorate? My sister is helping with the decorating so I'm really not over my head if the baking part is done. She's very, very good at decorating and my cakes are well received , so I thought that we could combine our talents to make a really outstanding cake. I just don't want to use my regular butter recipe if freezing it is going to make it suck. Thanks for the help and support.

[gfron1]

HERE'S the frozen cake topic. Quite controversial as I remember it.

[EllenC]

I tested several recipes and found one that freezes really well. I adapted the flavoring for the party cake in Dorie Greenspans "Baking from My Home to Yours" cookbook. I froze it for a week and thawed it and it tasted great. I even left part of it unfrosted and uncovered on the counter overnight and my friends still told me that it was better than any other wedding cake they had eaten.

I just freeze the plain cakes and then frost frozen cakes. Less crumbs.

YMMV

Ellen

[beacheschef]

I have to agree that the best way to be certain your cake will come out as you expect from the freezer is to make it, freeze it for a week or so, then defrost and taste it. I can plan and read enough to drive myself crazy, but the real test is whether I'm pleased with the results.

I'm not wild about freezing cakes filled with lemon curd - sometimes the curd separates a little. What I will do is make a large batch of lemon curd ahead of time and freeze it until the day before I'm going to use it...stirring it well before filling the cakes. Buttercream (I use Italian Meringue) can be made ahead of time and frozen, then defrosted. By making the freezable "components" early, you might be able to bake and fill the cakes closer to the time of the party. Also - have the fondant colored ahead of time, ready to be quickly rolled and smoothed.

I usually always try to add a flavored syrup to my cakes - one that will add another "dimension of flavor" to the finished cake. Often that means flavoring the syrup with liquor, citrus, vanilla, espresso, or some other complimentary flavor that will taste wonderful with my cake/filling combination. So - instead of just using the syrup to keep the cake from being dry, now it adds to the final product.

I've delivered cakes to receptions, then quickly changed into party clothes in the bathroom and attended the wedding. It's pretty crazy, but by making daily lists and staying organized I was able to get through the cake and delivery, then the festivities.

Good luck - Mary

[highchef]

ok, it's almost show time...oh you have no idea how many cakes I've made in the last 2 months... The large drum cake is done, it's basically a pound cake, but it's fricking huge, 14" and I needed it to hold up under the fondant that will make the layers, 4 of them just a wee bit higher than the actual drum itself. I've got a white cake recipe that will do just fine whenever I make the first smaller drum (10') and the 3rd will be 10 " also but chocolate. Here's the problem. The great chocolate recipes I have are weak on the support side! They are not going to stand up to fondant. The best chocolate recipes I have call for cocoa into hot water...

Please tell me one more recipe that I can use. I wanted to use the

Duncin Hines recipe from above, but they don't make a chocolate cake. If they do, and you've actucally used it, please let me know asap.

I also need a stand up buttercream recipe. I really love the merainge(sp) buttercream but it doesn't stand a chance with 500 people in the (large) room.

The buttercream layer is important because I need a frosting after everyone pulls the fondant off, the cakes are having to be perfect. Yes..I', a little stressed...

my sister says...........I'm going to have to put shortining in my crumb layer..I say NO, NO, NO.

they want to make me go to shortening, and I say no, no, no...they want to make me go to shortening, and I say no, no, no.....

[SusanGiff]

Okay, I'm probably too late for this. I read through the frozen cake controversy thread last summer, because I am a rank amateur who was asked to bake cakes for my neighbors' kids bar mitzvahs (they're twins), and I turned here for help. I'll tell you, I had one of those test layers in my freezer for nearly a year, and defrosted it recently, and it's STILL good. Not that I'd serve it to anyone, but fine for my personal chocolate fix from time to time. It's the Double Chocolate Layer Cake. You should be able to find it in recipes here, or on Epicurious. I have "fantastic" written on the recipe. As I recall, it held up very well with the ganache I used to fill and frost it, and it doubled or tripled or whatever I did very well.

Shortening? No, no, no! Although it does have vegetable oil, not butter.

Good luck.

Edited July 8, 2008 by SusanGiff (log)

[chefpeon]

The great chocolate recipes I have are weak on the support side! They are not going to stand up to fondant.

I don't understand this. What makes you think your chocolate cake won't "stand up" to fondant? Unless you're dumping 500 lbs of fondant on top of the thing, there are very few, and no cake that I've personally come across, that you can't cover with fondant. I cover my chiffon cakes with fondant all the time.

I also need a stand up buttercream recipe. I really love the merainge(sp) buttercream but it doesn't stand a chance with 500 people in the (large) room.

The buttercream layer is important because I need a frosting after everyone pulls the fondant off, the cakes are having to be perfect.

Buttercream is also important to make a smooth surface for the fondant to stick to. You always need to put buttercream on a cake before you cover it with fondant.

Also, are you saying that meringue buttercream doesn't stand up to the heat and humidity of Louisiana? I sort of doubt that the number of people in the reception room will affect the stability of your buttercream.....

You can forego the meringue buttercream for a "straight" buttercream, which is basically this:

1 1/2 cups hot water

1/2 cup vanilla

couple pinches of salt

6 lbs powdered sugar

Mix ingredients to a smooth paste on 20 qt mixer with paddle attachment.

12 lbs butter, unsalted (it can, and should be, cold or cool, NOT room temp!)

Throw the butter in the mixer in chunks and let it whip til smooth, about 15-20 mins.

Now if you don't have a 20 qt mixer you can scale this recipe down of course, and you can also substitute part of the butter with shortening if you need to. You don't have to use ALL shortening, but you may have to, just because of the climate conditions down there.

[highchef]

my chocolate recipe barely stands up to a light buttercream, it is a very delicate cake, though super tasty. part of the problem, though, may be the whipped cream filling!! I'm getting a lot of information from "the Wedding Cake Book' by Dede Wilson. She likes a good firm, closely textured cake to 'hold up to a heavy coverying, such as marzipan'. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking fondant (rolled and draped) is in this catagory, ie 'heavy'??

I've felt the temp. of a room go up pretty quick down here with tons of party people having fun..and july is no time to risk a buttercream meltdown. we're talking upper 90's, lower if I'm really lucky. The meringue that I tried yesterday was wonderful, but I just know it's going to be too soft when stacked and I really need something firmer.

I found this Coffee Buttercream:

3/4 cup freshly ground French roast coffee

1 1/3 cups water, divided

8 large egg yolks, at room temperature

2/3 cup granulated sugar

1 1/2 cups (3 sticks) unsalted butter, at room temperature

1 teaspoon vanilla extract

1/4 teaspoon salt

It has less butter and more sugar than the other so i'll give it a go on a test cake today (heavy pound cake). I shall let you good people know, if just to vent a little! Thanks!

[reenicake]

hope I'm not too late to be of help, but meringue buttercream is much more stable at a range of temps than any made with yolks. Seriously. I've made it in 90% humidity and 90 temps and it's come through for me.

IXNAY on the whipped cream filling! both for stability and food safety in a warm room where it will be out for several hours.

Check out the chocolate cake thread for a very good cake that will stand up to anything -- the melted chocolate in it firms u when chilled/frozen and it stacks/covers with fondant with no problem.

[highchef]

you have no idea how helpful that was. The 'drums' are in freezers now and I'll take them out thursday...decorate on friday and hope they hold out till saturday..if any of you pray, do it for me,. Please.

[sugarseattle]

glad to hear everthing's on schedule for your big event. I can't wait to hear how it goes.

Sorry this is too late, but I personally prefer a chocolate cake made with vegetable oil, not butter. I find chocolate cakes made with any sort of dairy (butter, milk, buttermilk, sour cream) tend to be not as chocolaty and often certainly not as moist.

[judiu]

you have no idea how helpful that was. The 'drums' are in freezers now and I'll take them out thursday...decorate on friday and hope they hold out till saturday..if any of you pray, do it for me,. Please.

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I pray, and will do so! Here's to your boundless success! Brightest Blessings to the loving couple and their families!