"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)

[Zoe Francois]

Here is the rye that I started on Saturday.  I baked off the first loaf today.  Omg, it smells so good.  We're going to have tuna sandwiches for lunch.

Is it normal for the dough to really spread out while its resting on the counter?

Btw, I skipped the cornmeal and baked it on the parchment.

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Hi. Yes, with these slack doughs you will definitely have spreading. Did you get good oven spring? It is hard to tell from the angle in the picture. The loaf looks wonderful and I hope you like the flavor!

It is a delicate balance between a dough that is wet enough to produce a nice crumb and not too wet so it will hold its shape. This is even more profound with the rye dough because rye has very little gluten to speak of and the dough can get even more slack.

Zoe

[Alex]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

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Talk about a pin-up photo! That looks incredible.

OK, this is embarrassing to admit, especially since I am a card carrying chocoholic, but I don't think I had ever heard of chocolate bread until this thread. Do you slice it and eat it like pound cake? I didn't think I was interested until the siren song of that photo.

pat

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More like regular bread. I just put a bit of butter on it.

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It's also outstanding with cream cheese, and makes for a decadent French toast. And if it's getting a little stale (yeah, right -- like it's going to last that long), it's the start of an incredible bread pudding.

This picture has convinced me to buy the book. Thirteen dollars for a loaf of cherry chocolate bread from Zingerman's, wonderful as it is, approaches not-worth-it-except-maybe-once-a-year.

[Anna N]

Haven't slacked off baking bread just slacked off posting about it!

This is the pumpernickel bread made with the caramel colouring from "Secrets of a Jewish Baker". I did not use caraway on top as I have two family members who really dislike caraway but Kerry Beal tried it and she really missed the caraway. Next loaf will have the caraway!

This is exactly the style of bread we enjoy most with our Danish open-face sandwiches but I never thought I might be able to make it myself!

I have another batch of basic dough in the 'fridge in which I reduced the water to 3 1/2 cups (from 3 3/4) still using bread flour. Tomorrow I will bake off a small loaf and see how it compares with the original one I did with bread flour.

Sorry the photo is a bit on the fuzzy side.

[Jmahl]

Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

This loaf weighs one pound six oz. I calulate that you can get a yeald of three loafs like this from one batch. Added to basic recipe - subbed 3/4 cup whole wheat flour, (total flour 2 lbs.) two Tbs. honey and added 1/2 cup water or 3 1/2 cups.

This is something.

Jmahl

[CaliPoutine]

Here is the inside of the rye. We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye. I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour. I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

[Anna N]

Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

. . .

Jmahl

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Looks great!

[Anna N]

Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.  I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

. . . 

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Hmm that's interesting that you describe the crumb as "fluffy". I cannot say that I am familiar with NY Jewish Rye but I found this rye crumb to be firm rather than fluffy. I was reminded of supermarket rye (but better!).

[Kerry Beal]

Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

. . . 

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Hmm that's interesting that you describe the crumb as "fluffy". I cannot say that I am familiar with NY Jewish Rye but I found this rye crumb to be firm rather than fluffy. I was reminded of supermarket rye (but better!).

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Anna's loaf was more like Jewish Rye than I expected given that there wasn't a rye sour starter. It sure didn't have a fluffy crumb.

[Pat W]

Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

This loaf weighs one pound six oz.  I calulate that you can get a yeald of three loafs like this from one batch.    Added to basic recipe - subbed 3/4 cup whole wheat flour, (total flour 2 lbs.) two Tbs. honey and added 1/2 cup water or 3 1/2 cups.

This is something.

Jmahl

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That is beautiful. Thank you for the details. I'm going to try your variation for my next batch of dough. I have to get more plastic containers so I can keep more than one dough going at a time. It would be so great to never have to buy a loaf of crummy supermarket bread again.

pat

[CaliPoutine]

Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

. . . 

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Hmm that's interesting that you describe the crumb as "fluffy". I cannot say that I am familiar with NY Jewish Rye but I found this rye crumb to be firm rather than fluffy. I was reminded of supermarket rye (but better!).

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Anna's loaf was more like Jewish Rye than I expected given that there wasn't a rye sour starter. It sure didn't have a fluffy crumb.

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Ok, so maybe I'm doing something wrong. I know Anna is using Canadian flour and I used Gold Medal for the AP and Hodgson Mills for the Rye. Or, maybe mine is too wet.

Anna are you comparing your bread to those smallish loaves of thin sliced Rye we can get in the market. I think the brand is Dimplemyer?

[Zoe Francois]

Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.  I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense. 

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

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Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

[CaliPoutine]

Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense. 

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

←

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

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I used the Hodgson Mills Rye(the box doesnt specify if its light or dark). I let it rise about 1hr( while I preheated the oven). I baked it at 425( convection).

[Zoe Francois]

Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense. 

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

←

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

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I used the Hodgson Mills Rye(the box doesnt specify if its light or dark). I let it rise about 1hr( while I preheated the oven). I baked it at 425( convection).

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I just looked at the bread you are comparing it to at: http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/

I think you might be looking for a bread made with more rye? They bake their breads in a loaf pan so they can get away with more rye, less gluten. You might try that and see what you think. Once you add more rye you will have a very loose dough and will need to use a pan to bake it.

I'm still amazed at how fluffy your bread turned out! If anything I have been having conversations with people on how to get their breads to be fluffier!

Was your kitchen particularly warm while the dough was resting? Did it seem to be rising faster? One hour seems just about perfect for this bread and I've never described this loaf as fluffy. The flours and the rest time are all spot on! You may want to reduce the rise time next time so it doesn't develop as much loft. Wow, I never thought I'd sy that!!!

Thanks this is very interesting. Zoe

[mhjoseph]

Real Jewish rye bread uses clear flour for the non-rye component (see Secrets of a Jewish Baker). For those that don't know, clear flour is what remains after the first extraction and still has a lot of the dark outer parts of the grain and has a high protein level. This is what makes the loaf firm.

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Zoe, do you have any thoughts on using clear for the AP in the recipe.

Marc

Here is the inside of the rye. We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye. I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour. I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

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I used the Hodgson Mills Rye(the box doesnt specify if its light or dark). I let it rise about 1hr( while I preheated the oven). I baked it at 425( convection).

←

I just looked at the bread you are comparing it to at: http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/

I think you might be looking for a bread made with more rye? They bake their breads in a loaf pan so they can get away with more rye, less gluten. You might try that and see what you think. Once you add more rye you will have a very loose dough and will need to use a pan to bake it.

I'm still amazed at how fluffy your bread turned out! If anything I have been having conversations with people on how to get their breads to be fluffier!

Was your kitchen particularly warm while the dough was resting? Did it seem to be rising faster? One hour seems just about perfect for this bread and I've never described this loaf as fluffy. The flours and the rest time are all spot on! You may want to reduce the rise time next time so it doesn't develop as much loft. Wow, I never thought I'd sy that!!!

Thanks this is very interesting. Zoe

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[Anna N]

. . .

Anna are you comparing your bread to those smallish loaves of thin sliced Rye we can get in the market.  I think the brand is Dimplemyer?

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Yes, except I find they always seem "old" to me - dried out and really hard to swallow.

Here's what I used for 1/2 recipe:

1 1/2 C water

3/4 T yeast

1 1/4 T DC salt

3/4 T caraway seed (plus more for top)

2.35 oz rye flour (supermarket rye - prob. White Rose)

11 1/4 oz Robin Hood All Purpose unbleached flour

Edited to say should be Red Rose rye flour not White Rose!

Edited January 31, 2008 by Anna N (log)

[CaliPoutine]

I just looked at the bread you are comparing it to at: http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/

I think you might be looking for a bread made with more rye? They bake their breads in a loaf pan so they can get away with more rye, less gluten. You might try that and see what you think. Once you add more rye you will have a very loose dough and will need to use a pan to bake it.

I'm still amazed at how fluffy your bread turned out! If anything I have been having conversations with people on how to get their breads to be fluffier! 

Was your kitchen particularly warm while the dough was resting? Did it seem to be rising faster? One hour seems just about perfect for this bread and I've never described this loaf as fluffy. The flours and the rest time are all spot on! You may want to reduce the rise time next time so it doesn't develop as much loft. Wow, I never thought I'd sy that!!!

No, it wasnt warm, although it was rising next to the preheating oven. It spread out so much that I really thought I didnt let it rise enough. Don't get me wrong, the flavor was great. However, like you said, I think I like denser rye bread. I grew up in Florida in a Jewish home( both parents are from NY), so we ate a lot of Jewish Rye. That rye bread that I buy here( thanks for correcting the name) is dense and very thinly sliced. I think I buy a 454g loaf and there are maybe 8 slices in it. Its also sourdough based( no yeast).

Next time, Ill increase the rye flour and bake it in a loaf pan.

[CaliPoutine]

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Marc,

Can you tell me where that bakery is? I wish I would have known that last summer when I was in Cleveland for the Heartland Gathering.

[mhjoseph]

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Marc,

Can you tell me where that bakery is? I wish I would have known that last summer when I was in Cleveland for the Heartland Gathering.

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I though you'd never ask

It's Lax and Mandel and it's possible that they do mail order if you give them a call.

[Zoe Francois]

Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

This loaf weighs one pound six oz.  I calulate that you can get a yeald of three loafs like this from one batch.    Added to basic recipe - subbed 3/4 cup whole wheat flour, (total flour 2 lbs.) two Tbs. honey and added 1/2 cup water or 3 1/2 cups.

This is something.

Jmahl

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This bread looks great! Bring on the marmalade!!!

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Real Jewish rye bread uses clear flour for the non-rye component (see Secrets of a Jewish Baker). For those that don't know, clear flour is what remains after the first extraction and still has a lot of the dark outer parts of the grain and has a high protein level. This is what makes the loaf firm.

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Zoe, do you have any thoughts on using clear for the AP in the recipe.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Yes, the clear flour would work beautifully in the recipe. I haven't tried it in this particular rye dough (we tried to avoid special ingredients for the book), so I can't give you the %, but it should work. If you use it will you let me know what you think. I'll get some and try it as well.

It would also be good to use in the whole wheat breads.

Thanks! Zoe

[llc45]

Wow -I was only on vacation for 5 days and look what I missed out on! For those of you who didn't see my post early on, try the Brioche!!!! I can't begin to say how wonderful it is. Before x-mas, I also made the brioche with chocolate ganache. I am now getting requests from all my friends. At this point, I pretty much always have the basic loaf on hand, modified to add some whole wheat.

In addition, I have started to keep the Brioche on hand and have recently been cutting off hunks of dough to send home with friends since I have not been able to keep up. My husband's beer fridge is slowly being overtaken.

I ordered books for a number of my friends for x-mas and now have put in a second order for additional friends and coworkers who have tried the bread. I am alway trying to get the people around me to cook more and I think this finally did the trick.

Still waiting to find the time to attempt something similar to the seven grain loaf that I like for breakfast. My first attempt very early on (before I had the book) did not turn out so well. At Zoe'ssuggestion, I am going to try and soak a variety of whole grains rather than adding more whole wheat flour. Maybe this weekend...

[Zoe Francois]

Wow -I was only  on vacation for 5 days and look what I missed out on!  For those of you who didn't see my post early on, try the Brioche!!!!  I can't begin to say how wonderful it is.  Before x-mas, I also made the brioche with chocolate ganache.  I am now getting requests from all my friends.  At this point, I pretty much always have the basic loaf on hand, modified to add some whole wheat. 

In addition, I have started to keep the Brioche on hand and have recently been cutting off hunks of dough to send home with friends since I have not been able to keep up. My husband's beer fridge is slowly being overtaken. 

I ordered books for a number of my friends for x-mas and now have put in a second order for additional friends and coworkers who have tried the bread.  I am alway trying to get the people around me to cook more and I think this finally did the trick.

Still waiting to find the time to attempt something similar to the seven grain loaf that I like for breakfast.  My first attempt very early on (before I had the book) did not turn out so well.  At Zoe'ssuggestion, I am going to try and soak a variety of whole grains rather than adding more whole wheat flour.  Maybe this weekend...

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Many, many thanks for spreading the word and giving the book to so many friends!!! Do let me know how you make out with the soaked grains.

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Wow -I was only  on vacation for 5 days and look what I missed out on!  For those of you who didn't see my post early on, try the Brioche!!!!  I can't begin to say how wonderful it is.  Before x-mas, I also made the brioche with chocolate ganache.  I am now getting requests from all my friends.  At this point, I pretty much always have the basic loaf on hand, modified to add some whole wheat. 

In addition, I have started to keep the Brioche on hand and have recently been cutting off hunks of dough to send home with friends since I have not been able to keep up. My husband's beer fridge is slowly being overtaken. 

I ordered books for a number of my friends for x-mas and now have put in a second order for additional friends and coworkers who have tried the bread.  I am alway trying to get the people around me to cook more and I think this finally did the trick.

Still waiting to find the time to attempt something similar to the seven grain loaf that I like for breakfast.  My first attempt very early on (before I had the book) did not turn out so well.  At Zoe'ssuggestion, I am going to try and soak a variety of whole grains rather than adding more whole wheat flour.  Maybe this weekend...

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BTW - the errata sheet at my website is getting longer, unfortunately!! You may want to check it out and let those that you've given the book to know about it as well.

www.zoebakes.com

Thanks! Zoe

[Anna N]

So here's the basic dough after reducing the amount of water by 1/4 C (this is my modified recipe using bread flour NOT Zoe's original recipe!!)

The dough was much easier to manage and the results were equally good. This remains a very, very slack dough and probably equates with Zoe's original recipe using A/P flour.

I learned this neat trick from another food discussion board: use a pair of long-bladed scissors to cut out the amount of dough you need to bake! It works really well.

[Zoe Francois]

So here's the basic dough after reducing the amount of water by 1/4 C (this is my modified recipe using bread flour NOT Zoe's original recipe!!)

The dough was much easier to manage and the results were equally good.  This remains a very, very slack dough and probably equates with Zoe's original recipe using A/P flour.

I learned this neat trick from another food discussion board:  use a pair of long-bladed scissors to cut out the amount of dough you need to bake!  It works really well.

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Anna, this bread looks wonderful! The crust and crumb are gorgeous, how did it taste? How long did you let it rest before baking? What are the measurements you have settled on with the bread flour? Do you know what the protein content is?

Sorry, for all the questions but I'm so curious how you got to this point.

Thanks! Zoe