macrosan

Tommy, you have to be clear on who is going to be there !!! Among others, Messrs Finch, Majumdar, Lynes, Magnolia, Scottf.....need I go on ? If any one of them gets within sniffing distance of a bottle, no-one else gets a shot. The laws of physics determine that there are not enough bottles of any given wine in existence for each of them to have a taste in one place on one evening ...and after a second look at even that partial guest list, I'm sure you now realize there is no chance of getting too many educated opinions and even less chance of any of them remembering the next day what their opinion was Seriously though, Tommy and Suvir, I will link this thread into the Tayyab thread so everyone gets the idea. It would indeed be interesting to reach some conclusions. It's such a shame that Plotters super-educated nose won't be there with us

Thanks for that link, Suvir. I did try to do a search myself, but mine didn't come up with that very useful thread. I don't know if I got it wrong or the search engine was having a bad day yesterday And thanks everyone else. Now I know what Tony and Simon are bringing I think Alsatian Gewurtztraminer and Sangiovese sound like a good pair of bottles to bring. But I too intend to test the Finchian theory and sample someone lese's Shiraz

eGullet UK is having a huge (21 people) get-together at the Tayyab restaurant in London next week. This is actually a Pakistani restaurant, and doesn't serve wine (whether for religious or commercial reasons I don't know). Tony Finch, who has organised the event, suggests we all bring our own wine, and has recommended Shiraz as a good match for this type of food. The problem is that now everyone will bring Shiraz and that's likely to be boring. So I'd like an alternative suggestion or two. I have to admit that I generally drink (Indian) beer at Indian restaurants, and I can't think of a classic red wine that seems to fit. Maybe Chianti ? So please make some suggestions. If your choice is obscure, some ideas on where I could buy it in London would also help. Thank you, folks, you might also change my drinking habits at Indian restaurants for ever

Do you want to experience and describe the very best that a restaurant is capable of achieving, or do you believe your reviews should reflect the "typical" dining experience that any of your readers might have if they walked in "off the street" ?

David, do you review a restaurant from the perspective of your own likes and dislikes, and your own experience and skill in determining what is "right" and "wrong" ? Or do you take into consideration the perspective of your readers when forming judgement ?

I think you have that exactly right, Saffy. Bottled water gained an ascendancy in the UK about 15 years ago. That was a time when the nationalized water utility companies in Britain were on their last legs, totally lacking in investment, and the quality of water being delivered to British householders' taps was generally abysmal. On top of that, or maybe because of that, regulations were introduced (I guess they were European Community regulations) to increase the amount of chlorine and fluorine in the water. What we finished up with was bad looking, bad tasting tap water. It may or may not have been healthy water. So millions of people started to boil tap water before drinking, then decided to look for bottled water. France, which has never had safely drinkable water and therefore had a well-established bottled water industry, ready and able to deliver. Since those days, tap water in Britain seems to have returned to having good quality tap water, but now the marketing profession has taken over. There is a snob value in restaurants about paying for water. I have observed people, in a group at a table, when asked by the waiter if they want tap water, instantly look round at one another to see if anyone is listening, When they see someone else at the table looking at them, they immediately say "Oh no, bottled please". They never ask another person at the table if they want tap water. I also struggle with the concept of fizzy water, or naturally carbonated as the marketeers insist on calling it. I mean, what is that ? Naturally carbonated ? Everyone knows that they're artificially injecting carbon dioxide into the stuff, even if it did naturally have some CO2 in it before they started. When was the last time you saw a fizzy mountain stream ? Fizziness is an appetite suppressant and causes flatulence. So why on earth would anyone want to drink fizzy water with a meal ? My guess is again that it's marketing that has created the demand, that it's considered elegant I understand that some people don't trust the water utilities to deliver safe water to the taps, and so they drink bottled water out of fear. My own opinion is that the water bottling companies are just as likely to provide contaminated water.

Super report as always, Cabrales. I read a press report about Ramsay which inter alia suggested that GR Claridge's was below standard. Gordon Ramsay was asked to comment on this and accused the writer of not knowing what he was talking about. Ramsay might do better to read the specific, relevant and highly detailed reviews at eGullet, and then to go look for himself at what he has at Clardige's, rathet than just bristle with indignation at any criticism.

I don't think it's fair to taunt Plotnicki in this way. If this was an NFL game, Fat Guy would be excluded from the game.

So, it seems, do you Judi Yes, he has those three types of oyster on the menu at the moment, and he is buying Loch Fyne oysters at the moment, although they are not named on the menu. Interesting, isn't it ?

I think that Plots just mis-spelled it. Should be a "c" not an "s". So as my grandmother always used to say "Don't have too muCh steak, it's no good for you"

I did cheat a little. By accident, I arranged to go to Padstow on Bank Holiday Monday. OK, OK, how could that be an accident ? Well it was because I wasn't at my mental best when I booked it Anyway, when I realized what I'd done I decided we'd better drive down early so I left home at 6.08 in the morning, arrived Padstow at 10.30 after two brief pit-stops and a petrol fill-up. So I reckon I was driving for 4 hours. It was 296 miles, giving an average speed of 74mph. I have to say I was amazed, but I have never ever ever seen the roads so empty. I shall do that again. Incidentally, it took just over 5 hours for the return journey on Thursday evening..... and I don't drive a Ferrari, so I am definitely not the extremely fast shoemaking one ? Yeah, Basildog, I know there are lots of small B&B accommodations, and a few small hotels including Rick Stein's, but after trying five of them without success (they couldn't do the days I wanted) I rang the Metropole. I should have asked myself why they had rooms when everyone else was full ..... And yes, I know there are still a few trawlers, and a few small fishing boats, but when I was last in Padstow in 1986 there were dozens of them. Ah well, I guess tourism brings in better revenue And I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong overall impression. We both enjoyed a great four days in a beautiful aprt of the country, among a lot of very nice, friendly people. We will do it again.

Yep. Shame, but unbookable. But I did get to observe some interesting things about the day-to-day workings of the place, as we walked past it about 30 times in 4 days Incidentally, "all the way to Padstow" was a 4-hour drive. I'll do it again off-season, after pre-booking Stein's and Margot

Padstow is probably one of the major tourist towns in Cornwall, and in particular I guess it caters for a high proportion of day visitors since local accommodation is very limited. Padstow used to be a "typical" fishing village, but there is clearly very little fishing done there any more. The local quayside fish market, which 20 years ago used to be open every day, wasn't open at all in the four days I spent there with my wife. The market hall has been turned into a "fish school", presumably to cater for the restaurateurs allegedly flocking to the village in the wake of celebrity chef Rick Stein. We stayed at the only sizeable hotel in town, the 50-bedroom Forte Metropole. Public rooms are old-fashioned but clean and comfortable. Same for the seaview double we took at £153 per night including breakfast. The room was pretty small, and I felt it to be very over-priced. For our first breakfast, my wife ordered smoked haddock without poached egg, I ordered kipper. The haddock came with an egg and it was "on the turn". My kipper was like salted leather. Both were uneatable, and left on the plate with one mouthful taken from each. It was clear that for the remaining 15 minutes we stayed in the restaurant, the staff studiously avoided our table, and no comment was made then or subsequently about the untouched dishes. Sadly, my wife absolutely refused to allow me to complain (she's heard too many stories about kitchen staff spitting in food and so on). The following morning, we stuck to cereal and toast. The toast was awful --- pappy supermarket sliced bread, toasted and then allowed to go "soggy". Our last morning, feeling much braver, we both ordered plain omelette. This arrived uncooked in the centre. My wife sensibly ate only the cooked exterior, I rather foolishly (well, I was hungry) ate it all and suffered for the rest of the day. We will not be staying at the Metropole again. Restaurants in the village fall into three categories. First, the classy joints like Rick Stein's Seafood Restaurant, his Cafe, the Pescadou and of course Margot's (linkety link). These are a group because you can't get into any of them unless you've booked weeks ahead, so they're simply unavailable to the casual visitor. Group two are the fast food joints masquerading as something else. They appear to be serving home cooked food, but in fact it's all frozen, precooked microwaved pap. There are two such establishments (The Clipper and The Foc'sle) which are owned by the same people, serving identical menus with such dishes as lasagne verde, penne all'arrabbiatta, fisherman's pie, prawns in batter, and so on. All these dishes are bought by them like TV dinners, cooked and ready in their own dish, which they pop into a microwave. We had lunch at The Clipper (both ordering pasta) and the food was appalling and not cheap. The pasta dishes cost £6 and £8 without any extras. There are other such establishments, such as Rojano's (a pizza and pasta joint) serving obviously frozen food. These places pretend, by their hand-written menus and their extravagant use of phrases such as "local produce" and "Cornish food at its best" and so on, to be serving local, freshly prepared food. They are not. Group three seems to consist of a few pub/hotels serving decent food. We ate at The Ship Hotel which actually buys fresh fish each day and cooks it competently. They serve non-frozen steak and lamb, cooked to order in their own kitchens. The restaurant setting at The Ship is truly awful, and could easily put you off sitting down! We got chatting to the waiter at the Ship, who told me there were a few similar places which did the same, but that most of the eateries in town were like the Clipper --- clip-joints ! Padstow is not a place to go to eat unless you have a prior booking at one of the quality restaurants (I assume that Stein's place and the Pescadou are OK). But if you do find yourself there, keep away from busy places with long, hand-written menus. PS: The best ice cream in town is to be found at The Chough Bakery (yes, bakery). Simply superb, and a huge contrast to the "famous Cornish ice creams" and "made with local farm cream" rubbish.

I understand that Rick's new TV series is dedicated to the praise of local producers of top quality foods, and encourages restaurateurs as well as individuals to purchase local products so as to encourage producers further. In which case, why does his restaurant at Padstow buy oysters from Loch Fyne (about 600 miles away) and mussels from the Shetland Isles (about 800 miles away). Can it really be that there are no suitable oysters or mussels to be found any nearer ? Or is the theme of Stein's new series just a gimmick ? Or is there another (good) reason ?

You know, Besha, a professional scriptwriter would have been very highly paid to have written dialogue like that What an awful experience. I think even I would have stood up when the tuna arrived, asked for the manager, refused to pay and walked out.

Peter, mine isn't that grand ! I couldn't find any commercial size grill trays, so I've bought the biggest "kit" I could find on the retail market (30" wide). I have built the BBQ against the main chimney breast of the house, and I'm trying now to find a commercial hood/extractor made in stainless steel to fix above the BBQ, venting the smoke into the chimney stack. Apart from that, it's a simple U-shaped brick structure. Nothing special. Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions for books. I'm getting two of them, and I have a lot of reading to do I will report back in a month or so on how I found the books.

My favorite bottled pasta sauces : For spreading on the lawn to keep next door's cats out of the garden --- Lloyd Grossman For stripping paint off wood --- Ragu For coloring cement mix to match patio paving slabs --- Paul Newman For eating ----

I'm not convinced that Cantonese duck is glazed, and I thought Peking Duck was. A common menu item in the UK is "Cantonese Aromatic Crispy Duck". This has a matt surface to the skin. The duck is shredded off the carcass and served in make-it-yourself pancake rolls with hoisin sauce, spring onion and cucumber strips. Other common items are Cantonese Roast Duck with Plum Sauce, and Braised Cantonese Duck. Both of these have similar skin to the crispy duck. I would assume therefore that the term "Cantonese duck" has little definitive meaning as a menu item.

Why did nobody thank me just for being Tommy. Specially as I didn't contribute to this thread purposely so as to leave room for other wonderful people like Tommy to make their typos with impunity. Humph !

I don't have a view on StJohn sourdough, but I do have a view on a picket line. Great idea, Kiku. There is going to be a large mob of eG's in town on August 31 for the Dim Summary, and no doubt this will be preceded and followed by libationary activity at selected Majumdarian locations. This will doubtless result in a large mob of pissed eG's sufficient in number not only to form the picket line, but also to breach it.

That's a nice treatise on the subject, Fat Guy, and I heartily concur with almost all of it. But not with the issue addressed above. Since pretty well everyone realizes that tipping is effectively not a payment for good service by a waiter, but is a mechanism which enables restaurateurs to avoid paying proper wages to waitstaff, surely the customer is entitled to withhold a "voluntary" payment on the basis of unhappiness with any aspect of the restaurant with which he is unhappy. I accept that the effect of doing this is indirect and slow. Bad food will result in low tips which will result in unhappy waitstaff who will get jobs elsewhere which will result in understaffing which will result in bad service which will mean disappearing customers which will mean closedown. Or maybe it would force the restaurateur to increase waitstaff wages Incidentally, I do strongly favor the American term "tip" rather than the pretentious and misleading European terms of "service cgarge" or "gratuity" (the latter of which I think is insulting and patronizing). For myself, I gauge a tip according to all elements of my dining experience, and not just the quality of service I got from waiters. I have a base level of 10% (in Europe) and will only drop below that in extreme circumstances, and with a major expressed complaint. I will increase that if the waiter has been better than average or if the food has been better than average or if I found the meal to be unusually good value or .... My guess is that for most "everday" meals I end up tipping 12.5 - 15%, and for "occasion" meals 15 - 25%. Interestingly, when I'm in the USA, I change my base figure from 10 to 15%.

Years ago, a new ultra-chic "Italian" restaurant opened in London. Waiters were clearly English but cunningly schooled in fake Italian accents. So was the menu, which had English subtitles. "Escaloppa alla vuostra moda" Escalope of veal fried in breadcrumbs and served with spaghetti)

That is truly awful. Even I know you don't put ice in any Petrus later than 1975.

I'm convinced that it isn't the food at these places the kids like, it's the place. If you decked a restaurant out like MacDonalds or Pizz Hut, with the same kind of staff, giveaways, color scheme, etc, and served foie gras and staek diane, the kids would love it.

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify terminology for my Southern adviser this will be a BBQ with a grill-tray (chromium rods) above a tray containing charcoal. What exactly is the definition of a "pit", which conjures up images of a huge hole in the ground with a whole ox being turned on the spit above by a team of servants