macrosan

The more I read about BBQ on this board, the more I conclude that there is a mysticism around the process. There is some undefined knack, trick, instinctive process that goes into "real" BBQ which maybe even the experts don't realize they're applying. It's like watching an expert throw a pizza dough. You ask them how they contrive to spin and throw it exactly at the right speed, and how they catch it without tearing it, and they usually say "I don't know, I just do it". Maybe Blue Smoke is too dependent on the equipment, and doesn't have that instinctive expert running the equipment ? From your list, FatGuy, I wonder if "state-of-the-art ventilation" is the problem. Maybe a "real" BBQ has to be smokey and unventilated ? I was planning a trip to Blue Smoke on my next trip, but now I wonder

Oh no, not that, pleeeeease Anything but irrelevant. ...hmmm, wait a minut, will that mean I get a thread of my own ? "Is Macrosan irrelevant to modern society ?" .... hmmmm .... OK, irrelevant is fine with me

That's right, Steve, but my point is not just that there's expensive crap out there, my point is that there's expensive crap which at least some parts of your elite claim not to be crap solely because of its price, or its artificially maintained exclusivity. In the same way, some of what your elite claims to be exceptional is not at all so, it's very ordinary, and the only basis for the judgement is that it carries an elitist price tag. I am therefore suggesting that endoersement by the elite is not sufficient as a judgement of merit. The elite very often get it wrong, and their capacity for getting it right is no better than the capacity of the plebs to get it right --- it's just probability theory.

Yeah, Tommy, but I'll be there too. There's always a price to pay...

Actually, I hate Chinese food. I only go in and order the food so I get those slices of orange. Does that make me a bad person ? Am I to be pilloried as a mere tourist ? Do I not bleed ? Have I no rights ?

In which case they're very disappointed in me

Steve, you are ignoring the lesson of the Emperor's clothes. Many suppliers play the game of the Emperor's clothes. They understand that there is an elite which will only buy something if it is expensive and exclusive. They can and do produce products and services whose primary appeal is exclusivity, and which are consciously and deliberately priced to achieve that, and the price bears no relationship to the cost or the value. Amex Black is an example of that. I can buy the same services as Amex Black for less than half the price, but the services I can buy are not "exclusive" ... anyone can phone in and get them, so they are of little interest to many of the elite. Many restaurants play the same game, of course. Those that seek the elite market establish a price which will attract their market, and that has to be a price which is significantly higher than the more general market. That addresses Wilfrid's point, of course, since otherwise the elite cannot use their chosen restaurant as the statement they desire. Further, it is important that the general public also know the price, so that the elite can make their status clear to that general public. The infamous leaking by Petrus of the £40,000 wine bill in the press was an example of exactly that. So whilst it may be true that that the elite sometimes are the pioneers in forming later public appreciation, the suggestion that they always make their judgements on "technical advancement or interesting application of existing technique" is simply not so. Probably they occasionally do, but I guess that most of the elite for most of the time are choosing their restaurants based on other considerations.

PLOTNICKI LOSES PLOT IN SCUBA MASK Makes sex change into Nicki

The Indian dish is usually referred to as Seekh/Sheekh/Sheesh/Shish Kebab (in the UK anyway) which is made almost exactly as decsribed in the recipe Jason produced. Becuase of the cooking method, I've found this tends to come out like a sausage, and rather rubbery. But Shawarma/Doner Kebab, although the ingredients are apparently the same, is spit-grilled differently. The prepared meat is packed onto a spit with a trapezoid cross section (slightly tapered) and the spit rotated. The way it's cooked is to take wafer thin slices off the outside as the "crust" gets cooked just right, so exposing the next layer, and so on. The trick is to have customers coming in at exactly the right rate, so the server is continuously slicing. Otherwise the crust gets overcooked, or you get a slice before it's ready. Perfect shawarma mas that beautiful BBQ-like tangy flavor on one side of each slice, and the other side melts in the mouth.

Oh, that re-think took 7.3 seconds. Suvir, I have re-thunk, and I have changed my mind. Meat it is and thank you for your advice.

The even better thiung about the "secret known only to Suvir at this point" is that Suvir may not even have told himself yet It's good to see that Site Security is holding up well so far Suvir, after much gastronomic reflection, I think I'd like to join the ranks of the vegetarians for this event I remember a few meals I had in a Gujarati vegetarian restaurant in my area, and they were delightful. On one occasion I tried their house specialty, which was pretty much one of everything on the menu, each dish served in a chrome plated bowl, all on a huge silver platter. And as soon as I finished one bowl, a new one appeared to take its place. Wonderful experience. I'm looking forward to this very much.

Well I've never heard of the other guys, but Peter Cook was definitely 17th Century.

That's a very thought-provoking concept, JD. I wouldn't attempt to overstretch the concept. I doubt whether a chracterisation of British or German restaurants would produce anything more than an attempt to use a few clever words which actually had nothing to do with the national style of restaurant But "Jewish" is fine, and it goes as follows. "Don't talk, eat".

Adam, your best bet without a doubt is to organise an eGullet Event at your restaurant. Put me down as a definite, subject only to date

LOL Rick, you really do like Asion/fusion, don't you ? I think you should do something different for her birthday, and we're currently looking for members to report on Ramsay's new Connaught venture .... any chance ?

Wow

Except, of course, that the purpose of posting was to imply that there is a causal realtionship

I'm just delighted for all my friends in New York that they will finally be able to get proper pizza, the way we've been getting it all over the UK for so many years (apart from all those American fast-food joints that have opened up for the kids) Anyone who calls a pizza a "pie" should not be tempted to sample real Italian pizza.

Steve, I have no argument with you on that, but it doesn't address my question to you. The Fat Duck is in England, but that doesn't tell you that therefore the English have developed their own haute cuisine. I suppose you would broadly judge The Fat Duck to be French. Similarly with Gordon Ramsay, French Laundry and Charlie Trotter. Does the existence of Nahm say to you that Thailand has developed its own haute cuisine ? I think not. My challenge to you, responding to your own words about Italian cuisine is to name one country apart from France which has adopted its own style of haute cuisine

I think he was talking about "crap" in the anagrammatical sense. Crap = anag[Carp] ....and of course he mis-spelled "carp" as "carb". OK, as FatGuy would say, I'm done on this thread

What a great report, Jaybee - actually had me salivating Ouest is on my definite list for my trip to NYC next month, specially as I am avidly reading Valente's cookbook (although I haven't yet done one of his dishes) which I won here a while back

I truly and honestly cannot believe you said that, Steve. Surely the whole thrust of your argument on this thread, and so many others, is that de facto only the French represent and "possess" haute cuisine. Whatever any other country in the world has done with its own cuisine you will not concede that it is haute cuisine will you ? If I'm wrong, give me one example.

Roast potatoes, a current thread

Strippers t**ts are often composed largely of carbs. Or is that silicon ?

No no no no no no no NO !!!!!!! ... a roasting pan which contains hot goose fat or schmaltz .... Now continue with Andy's script