macrosan

Interesting discussion for two reasons. First, I think I'm the only one here who doesn't know Shopsin's from the Burger King at Victoria Station. Second, because I can actually see both sides of the argument (yeah, this is still the same me) Seems to me that FatGuy can't check the facts of the entry becuz the man won't talk to him, so the publisher is taking a risk with his guide if he publishes the entry. Some entry has to be made for the reasons of the guide's credibility already discussed. An entry without detail, explaining why there is no detail, might create legal problems unless FatGuy gets written confirmation from the owner that he won't talk. Seems to me he won't do that. Good luck, FG.

Oh LOL, is that it ? It's to do with what you order In that case, Jinnysan, do you know what a male one-top is ? I only ask because I need to know.

Hey, Nina, I'm just laughing at what they wrote there, not at you

Yeah, Steve, I see that. Incidentally, I wouldn't describe Babbo as French either. And don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about Battali's absolute right to call his cooking Italian. He sure is more likely to be correct than I am The point I was making was in response to the AAGill-type comment that PeterPumkino quoted, which is to do with a layman's perception of what constitutes a national cuisine.

Nice write-up, SouthernGirl, and I'd be fascinated to know what you mean by the above BTW did you finish a whole bottle of wine, or do they serve half-bottles ? I always find it difficult when I'm dining alone to get the wine I want because they tend not to serve them by the glass or in half-bottles.

LOL that's like saying filet mignon has less tendon in it than steak, and is cooked rarer

On a more serious note, I think we're back on the trail of "ethnic authenticity" here, that elusive and probably non-existent and irrelevant quality that some people seem to prize so highly. I have been to Babbo in New York four times now, and it is my favourite restaurant in the world. Everyone (including the chef) says it's Italian, and I don't think it is within my own perception of what Italian food is. Does that matter to me ? Absolutely not, I still think the food is wonderful. Does it matter to Mario Battali ? Absolutely not, he has a delightfully happy customer who admires his food. So does it matter whether Babbo is an "Italian restaurant" or not ? Well only to first-timers who finish up disappointed with their visit because they expected Escalope Milanese, or whatever. Personally, I think AAGill's comment is naive. Of course there is a difference between Italian food served in Italy and Italian food served in England. In fact there is a difference between Italian food served in Sorrento and Italian food served in Naples. Even if the dishes are ostensibly identical, the cooking methods differ. If there is any meaning to the concept of "a national food" it is to do with the general style of cooking, commonly used ingredients, and a few specific "famous" dishes. I guess my summary for Italy (first thoughts, not intended to be comprehensive) would be : General style: Vegetables cooked al dente, light sauces, simple cooking methods Common ingredients: Olive oil, tomatoes, olives, veal, pasta, fish Famous dishes: Escalope of veal, osso buco, pizza, pasta I eat at three local Italian restaurants, on average twice a week between them. They are all quite different. Any one of them would remind you of a restaurant you had eaten at somewhere in Italy. On my holiday in Sorrento last month I had a meal in my hotel which reminded me of an excellent French restaurant in Brussels. I also ate in an Italian restaurant where the meal reminded me of a second-rate American restaurant in Croydon. What price "authenticity" ?

Bux, while we're straying off-topic, exactly where is the Sullivan St Bakery ? I looked for it after they told me at Babbo that's where they get their bread, but I couldn't find it. Maybe you should also tell me where the nearest optician is The British "chip buttie" is indeed an institution. It consists of two slices of thick cut white bread, buttered (although I guess margarine or dripping would do) filled with greasy, soggy chips. I'm told they have to be soggy to be authentic. This delicacy is obviously not just starch, it also contains a large amount of saturated fats. Plotnicki would love them. The chip buttie is still favored in Northern England, but is otherwise rarely to be found. I have to say that the photos in this thread don't shock me at all. Within the bounds of my limited expectations of an airline meal, both look reasonably edible. I really believe that airlines would deliver a better service to their customers, and save themselves a lot of money, if they served pre-packaged cold food on flights.

I thought Lady Fingers were what the Indians call "bindi", a vegetable shaped like a large chilli pepper, pale yellow in color, and tasting a bit like a parsnip. No ? My most absorbing simple food is a pomegranate. Apart from the wonderful flavor, I find the process of carefully teasing the seeds, one by one, out of the casing, supremely relaxing.

See ? I told you ! The end of Plotnickism as we have come to know it.

OK Peter, you got me there You really had me believing you were being serious until you said that. But of course no-one could be serious in saying that AA Gill said anything best

My God, this could be the end of Plotnickism (sic single i)as we have come to know it. Wilfrid has rung the death knell of an era. He has brought the harsh light of detailed scholarly research into eGullet Wilfrid, I sit in awe .....

Why Plotters, you've never lived Which kosher restaurants have you been to in London ? There are about five in Golders Green Road of which I've tried three. Blooms and Dizengoff both serve fried steak (with or without fried onions). Fiesta is an Argentinian Steak House, and doesn't serve fried steak. The dish is sauteed in a pan, no breading. The fried (caramelised) onions are pretty traditional. I used to get exactly trhe same dish at Blooms Whitechapel or Strongwaters in Brick Lane, and I remember two of my aunts cooking the dish. So it's obviously not a Brit thing, more a Lith or Pol thing I guess. And actually, it's a tasty dish, even if not like my preferred real steak.

A popular dish at many kosher restaurants is fried steak, which resolves exactly these problems. The steak is always cut thin and fried quickly, and it get to a high temperature and it's never dry.

I have tried steak 'bleu', I don't like it, I won't eat it because I don't like it. Now if a chef insists on serving his steak bleu, is he right ? Or am I right to walk out of his restaurant ? And where does this sit in the scale of "there is a proper way to serve a steak" ?

I also think they taste very much better, even though they're cheaper However very fresh eggs don't fry the same way as older eggs. The whites are much thinner, and they cook too quickly compared with the yolks. Whenever I've had farm fresh eggs, the white ends up leathery if I fry them. I think you got it absolutely right with an omellete, and pan-fried scrambled are great.

I would love to watch you two play badminton

Why do you insist on opening up these threads to Plotnicki ? OK, if you want to make an egg-white salad, that's fine with me.

I like leaving a few pieces of egg shell in the egg mix -- improves the texture, you know, gives it a certain crunchy authenticity. It's like the way they put soya chicken in cans of chiken soup to make you believe it was really made from real chickens. Now Steven, you can't make egg white. You can certainly extract it from the whole egg, but you can't make it (except from soya, of course, and we all know you wouldn't do that). OK, so you now have this huge bowl of egg-white extracted from a couple of gross of fresh organic eggs, so what are you gonna do with them ? An obvious candidate is gelato, or maybe some form of appetizing, perhaps a hair rinse. Perhaps of greater significance is the big question "Whaddya gonna do with the yolks?".

I used to work (many years ago) for a company that owned an ice-cream manufacturer (Nielsen's in the UK). What I recall is that ice cream is made up of four primary ingredients --- milk, fat, water, air, and flavoring. They made four ranges of ice cream which all had totally different textures and styles. All they did was control the mix of the first four ingredients. The same milk went inot very creamy soft ice cream and hard non-creamy ice cream. They just injected different quantities of air at different pressures to achieve the result they wanted. So I don't believe that major manufacturers use whipped cream at all. I guess they use milk, mix it with fat, and inject air. Soft ice cream that comes out of machines (like Mr Whippy or Mr Softee in the UK) have the air injected into the milk/fat mix by the machine. They have up to 90% air by volume. I guess that the samll manufacturer who doesn't have that sort of machinery might use cream to avoid having to mix fat into the milk, and probably a regular beater rather than a pressurised air injector. I am gonna get out there and do a Fat Guy. I'm going to eat ice cream till my gut is frozen solid, and ask the shops what they do. Wish me luck. In the immortal words of someone, "This could take a while".

I think you know my quick, simple answer, Cabrales None.

Well if nothing else, Steven, you've got me ready to dive into Cones next time I'm in NYC. Where on Bleecker is it ? Is it conveniently close to Babbo

Lizzie, that's the guy I want !

I'm still confused by what people think they're talking about here. Gelato means ice cream, ice cream means gelato. Now if ib the USA, the word gelato has been hijacked to refer to one particular style of ice cream, then fine, someone needs to define that for me. But to talk about "ice cream having more air in it" when different ice creams can contain anything from 20% up to 90% air, or to say that "ice cream is made with cream" when some ice cream is made with cream, some with full cream milk and some with half-cream milk, and so on, this discussion is going nowhere. Ice cream does not have a single recipe any more than apple pie has a single recipe. It depends what sort of ice cream you want to make, and who is making it. The variety of ice cream found in Italy is huge, the variety in Belgium is huge, the variety in Britain is huge. Can someone at least try to disconfuse me ?

I shudder at my temerity in putting new words into StevePs mouth, but I assumed he meant "enjoyment" rather than "appreciation". (quickly turns and starts to flee....)