Mole, any favorites?

[gknl]

I made mole for the first time on Saturday night/Sunday morning. I've eaten it a few times in restaurants and bought a jarred version after reading an article that said this one brand was acceptable (it was good), but never made it from scratch before.

I had a pot luck lunch/meeting scheduled for Sunday afternoon. They chose Mexican, so I was stuck. I scoured my three Mexican books, Cantina by the Two Hot Tamales; One Plate by Bayliss, and Border Cookbook by the Jamisons. For some reason, Bayliss' Apricot-Pine Nut Mole jumped out at me and once I thought about it, I couldn't do anything else.

Didn't matter that I've never made anything like it before. Didn't matter that I've never used dried chilis before. Oh, and did I mention one of them's a professional chef? Once I thought of it, I had to do it. I made the grocery list: tomatillos, sesame seeds, dried ancho chilis. I had the dried apricots, pine nuts, garlic, chicken stock and chocolate (I thought).

Store #1 Safeway had tomatillos and sesame seeds, but no whole dried chilis. Store #2 Albertson's had whole dried California, New Mexico, and Guajillo chiles, but no anchos. No way was I driving to another store this late. I bought a bag of each kind thinking maybe one of them was a regional synonym for ancho. I found a bag labelled Pasilla Ancho in the cupboard too. But a quick google search led me to a site that explained that probably none of them were real anchos. Oops #1. I decided to use the bag of Pasilla Ancho (3 oz.) and then half California and half New Mexico with a coupld of Guajillos thrown in for the hell of it.

Oops #2: procrastinating on egullet, I notice it's 9:45 pm and decide I probably should get started. I assemble some of the ingredients and stem and seed the dried chilis just to get started doing something. I did remember to use gloves, but didn't think it would take as long as it did to do the 6 oz of chilis. It's now 10:30. I get the rest of the ingredients only to find oops #3, the recipe calls for Mexican chocolate and not only do I not have any of that, I'm out of all forms of baking chocolate too. But I do have some Williams-Sonoma sweet chocolate and Hershey's unsweetened cocoa powder. And there's really no way I'm driving to the store again now.

I plunge ahead, roasting the tomatillos without incident. I toast the dried chilis, learning not to put a lot of small pieces in at once because they're really hard to fish out before they over-cook, cover them with boiling water to soak. Back to the tomatillos, I mix them with the sesame seeds (toasted), fried pine nuts, fried garlic, bread and spices. Since I don't have chocolate, I try to figure out how much powder to use. I end up with 4 tablespoons of the sweet chocolate and one tablespoon of unsweetened cocoa, plus an extra 1/4 teaspoon cinnamon because that's in Mexican chocolate. I don't know why that worked, but it seemed to taste "right" though I don't really have a clue as to what "right" is.

Back to the chilis. It said to taste the soaking water and if it's bitter not to use it. I had tasted it earlier and it wasn't bitter at all. I measured 2 cups, tasted it again, it was a little bitter, then as I added 1 cup, the bitterness kicked in. Oops #4, but at least I didn't add the whole 2 cups. I added 1 1/2 cups plain water after that. I blend it up and then strain it. I hope a lot of the bitterness is in the solids, so I don't press down very hard on it, discarding a fair amount.

I add the tomatillo mixture to the blender and find I have to add 2 cups of chicken stock to get it to swirl. It's supposed to be smooth, but it's thick and chunky and since it's supposed to be cooked down, I don't want to add too much liquid. I don't strain it, deciding that I'm making the rustic variation. Oops #5.

I reduce the chili puree and then the tomatillo blend without incident, add the rest of the stock and simmer away. After an hour, I taste it and it's bitter. And needs salt and sugar (both in the recipe). I add the salt first and it intensifies the bitterness. Oh oh. . . . I add the sugar which tames it a bit, but there's still a definite bitterness to the sauce. I keep it on low while I sautee some boneless, skinless chicken breasts sprinkled with salt, pepper, and chili powder in the left over oil from frying the chilis, garlic, and pine nuts. One last taste and the bitterness is still there. I clean up the kitchen and by the time I'm in bed it's around 4 am.

I'm tired and annoyed by the thought that I'm going to have to get up early and get some butternut squash tamales from Picante's Cocina on the way to the meeting. And that I still have to serve the mole if nothing else so they can tell me what I did wrong (though I have a good idea I screwed up the chili toasting/soaking).

I get up and heat the sauce on low, resigned to failure, and lo and behold, somehow overnight, the bitterness vanished! It's actually good. The other people thought it was good too.

Now I want to make it "right" and also to try other versions. It seems, at least to my uneducated palate, to be a resilient dish. It takes some effort and time, but nothing really that difficult or complicated to do.

Does anyone have any other versions they'd like to share?

[jhlurie]

So end to end how long did it take? I've always heard about some mythical "24 hours" figure, but it doesn't seem like it took you that long.

Seeing as how there are literally tens of thousands of variations on Molé, I'm not sure that there IS a wrong way to make it though. It ranges from bitter to sweet, spicy to mellow, thick to thin. I've seen it with at least a dozen different distinctive colors.

As for the use or non-use of the Mexican chocolate, that might matter. Then again, if its all unsweetened anyway? You may have a point. It may just be a prejudice. Then again, as I now know from watching an episode of CSI earlier this year (where it was a plot point), the majority of the chocolate sold in the US is actually from Africa and features trace amounts of lead from the leaded gas that prevails everywhere there. So maybe the Mexican chocolate has less lead. Either that, or CSI is making stuff up again.

[Jinmyo]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

[sladeums]

First I'd mention some advice on the prep notes you provided (and my own self-indulgent drivel), pardon if this covers elementary material, maybe someone will find some useful info:

The California and New Mexico chiles are pretty much interchangeable, the Guajillo has a bit different character - but none of them will quite approximate what you will get from an ancho (the form of the dried poblano). Whenever anchos are called for I usually don't try to substitute (at least not without realizing the outcome may not be as expected/desired). Take the time to find the anchos or mail order if necessary.

Seeding the chiles: after you do it a few times, it becomes fairly quick work...I just tear of the top stem and discard, use a sharp knife to slit the chile from stem to tip and open it up - brush off any seeds that stick and then also pull of the little membranes that run the length of the chile. When you refer to toasting them you mention not putting in a "...lot of small pieces..." - relatively speaking 99% of the chiles should still be in one piece. Did your's break apart? That is, where they dry and brittle? If so, they should not be...look for chiles that still have some suppleness to them. If you have to deal w/ chiles that are dry and brittle, before seeding them just toss them in a dry skillet over low heat...they'll start to puff a little - warm on both sides then seed as mentioned above as soon they are cool enough to handle -- they will no longer bust into a thousand pieces.

Also, you might consider forgoing the toasting until you are more experienced with using dried chiles...it's very easy to overheat the skin enough to push them over the edge to bitter, and the step does not make a HUGE impact on the overall dish. The key is not too much heat and it should be quick - just a few seconds on each side to give them a slight change of color. If you see anything more than a very slight wisp of smoke, forget it.

Bayless always suggests using the soaking water...it's not necessary, and as you noted can lead to problems. Just use water or broth as the recipe calls for. If you really want to use the soaking liquid I'd use no more than 1/4 of it - but, of course, taste it first.

You'll need to blend and blend and blend...if adding liquid is necessary, do so just a little at a time until you've reached the desired consistency...I find that frequently a much smaller quantity of liquid then I expected is sufficient to loosen the blades. In addition to maybe not being blended enough, the chiles that you used have much tougher skins than anchos (guajillo especially), so they also would have worked against having a smooth sauce. I'd strain if it looks too chunky.

The mexican chocolate that usually called for in recipes (generally Ibarra is suggested) is NOT unsweetened (unless specified), just not-as-sweet-as your average gringo chocolate. Ibarra lists it's ingredients as: sugar, cocoa, lecithin and cinnamon flavor (click here for Ibarra's)

Also, you didn't qualify on the cinnamon you were using, so I will note that almost any Mexican recipe that you see calling for cinnamon is usually referring to what you see labeled as 'canela' or 'ceylon cinnamon' - the cinnamon we are used to is actually cassia, and a MUCH different beast...much more harsh and biting, where canela is very floral (click here for info on canela).

As for suggestions, you might try a recipe for a Manchamanteles (tablecloth stainer), it is also a form of mole and depends more on fruits than nuts. It generally has a more sweet/fruity flavor than you would normally associate with 'mole', but is a very satisfying dish.

A quick search turned up this recipe from Bayless that seemed a decent introduction to this dish:

click for Manchamanteles de Cerdo y Pollo recipe

...I would also recommend getting a hold of some of Diana Kennedy's recipes, I usually find them a little more interesting than some of Bayless' stuff - not to slight Rick, I love the guy, but I just feel he can't touch the "Julia Child of Mexico".

edit: corrected Spice Page link

[gknl]

So end to end how long did it take?  I've always heard about some mythical "24 hours" figure, but it doesn't seem like it took you that long.

Seeing as how there are literally tens of thousands of variations on Molé, I'm not sure that there IS a wrong way to make it though.  It ranges from bitter to sweet, spicy to mellow, thick to thin.  I've seen it with at least a dozen different distinctive colors.

As for the use or non-use of the Mexican chocolate, that might matter.  Then again, if its all unsweetened anyway?  You may have a point.  It may just be a prejudice.  Then again, as I now know from watching an episode of CSI earlier this year (where it was a plot point), the majority of the chocolate sold in the US is actually from Africa and features trace amounts of lead from the leaded gas that prevails everywhere there.  So maybe the Mexican chocolate has less lead.    Either that, or CSI is making stuff up again.

Initially, the process took about 5 hours, counting a digression where I splashed a bit of chili puree on my pants that I like enough not to ruin (I'll never do that again) and had to change and soak them with some detergent. ugh.

It was barely edible at that stage though. And disappointing because I was hoping I got away with not doing it right. I took it out of the refrigerator after about 8 hours and gently reheated it. It was a completely different taste. The barely edible bitterness was gone. Magic. First time I'd experienced such a dramatic transformation. So the total time from start to edibility was almost 14 hours. Nice balance between sweet and chili kick.

I think you're right about mole diversity. It seems to me to be very flexible, especially since I don't really have a mental taste of what great mole should be. Resilient too, since if the ultimate goal is something that tastes good rather than recreating a classic, you can substitute stuff and still have it work. I'm sure others would differ with my definition of acceptable, much like someone who won't eat pesto made in a blender instead of a mortor and pestle. But I've never been that picky. Ignorance is bliss.

Mexican chocolate is sweetened and has cinnamon added. I'm not sure if it's generically the same stuff as the Mexican hot chocolate blocks I've bought before. I seem to remember having some that had almonds added as well as cinnamon.

I've never seen CSI. Unfortunately, I work M-Th nights which kills tv for me. If I taped shows to watch later, I wouldn't be able to hang out here as much.

[gknl]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Thanks!

No chocolate gene as in can't metabolize it or just can't stand the taste of it?

Any tips on chile pastes?

[jhlurie]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Jin, most Moles don't taste much like Chocolate.

[gknl]

First I'd mention some advice on the prep notes you provided (and my own self-indulgent drivel), pardon if this covers elementary material, maybe someone will find some useful info

Wow, thanks! That helps a lot for the next time I try this. I knew pretty early into the process that I wasn't making the Bayliss recipe anymore, but was hoping for something that didn't suck.

The ingredients I needed are readily available, just not at the chain-marts 5 minutes from my house. The best place I've found for Mexican goods is Super KMart, believe it or not. Cheap prices, but the service sucks. I'm definitely going to go on a pantry stocking trip soon. I just wasn't up for another trip that night. Lazy.

Some of the chiles were dry, especially the bag of "Pasilla Ancho" (what the label said) which I bought last year sometime on a whim. I read that Pasillas are often mislabeled as Anchos, but the bag seemed to contain two different kinds of chiles. Half were round and darker, the other half were slightly elongated and a bit lighter. Could the bag have contained both? I don't know.

I tore the chiles into chunks because they were curling and I thought they would be eaiser to work with that way. Now I know better.

There was a thought process behind my substitutions. From what I read, mole is basically chile puree, nuts, and chocolate plus seasoning. So using different chiles wouldn't kill the dish, just make it taste differently. Chocolate is cocoa, cocoa butter, and sugar. Since the recipe only called for an ounce, I figured the lack of cocoa butter wouldn't hurt that much. Again, I thought it would taste different, but not necessarily bad.

The Kennedy books are definitely on my list of books necessary for a well-ordered collection.

And I think I need a new blender too.

Anyway, if I can make something tasty, anyone else can too. Give it a try!

[sladeums]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Jin, most Moles don't taste much like Chocolate.

True dat...most moles don't even have chocolate as an ingredient.

[Jaymes]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Jin, most Moles don't taste much like Chocolate.

True dat...most moles don't even have chocolate as an ingredient.

We have chocolate so tied with sugar in our minds that it is impossible to imagine the flavor and subtlety of a molé with pure, unsweetened chocolate as only one of the many rich and varied flavors.

Bitter chocolate and fiery peppers are wonderful together. I have several recipes for chili that include a dash or two of unsweetened chocolate to add substance and layer to the final dish.

But, I have finally decided, it is utterly impossible to impart the thought of chocolate in a savory dish to those who have not tried it.

[jhlurie]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Jin, most Moles don't taste much like Chocolate.

True dat...most moles don't even have chocolate as an ingredient.

We have chocolate so tied with sugar in our minds that it is impossible to imagine the flavor and subtlety of a molé with pure, unsweetened chocolate as only one of the many rich and varied flavors.

Bitter chocolate and fiery peppers are wonderful together. I have several recipes for chili that include a dash or two of unsweetened chocolate to add substance and layer to the final dish.

But, I have finally decided, it is utterly impossible to impart the thought of chocolate in a savory dish to those who have not tried it.

Yes, shame on you Jinmyo for perpetuating this myth! Go hide in the corner!

(and contrary to what someone wrote before... most Moles I've had containing chocolate used the unsweetened variety. To be SPECIFIC I am talking about Mole Poblano--which I have somewhat been assuming was what was being described by this topic instead of any of the other major categories. Poblano alone is made in almost unlimited variations, but unsweeted chocolate does seem to be close to universal)

[Jaymes]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Jin, most Moles don't taste much like Chocolate.

True dat...most moles don't even have chocolate as an ingredient.

We have chocolate so tied with sugar in our minds that it is impossible to imagine the flavor and subtlety of a molé with pure, unsweetened chocolate as only one of the many rich and varied flavors.

Bitter chocolate and fiery peppers are wonderful together. I have several recipes for chili that include a dash or two of unsweetened chocolate to add substance and layer to the final dish.

But, I have finally decided, it is utterly impossible to impart the thought of chocolate in a savory dish to those who have not tried it.

Yes, shame on you Jinmyo for perpetuating this myth! Go hide in the corner!

(and contrary to what someone wrote before... most Moles I've had containing chocolate used the unsweetened variety. To be SPECIFIC I am talking about Mole Poblano--which I have somewhat been assuming was what was being described by this topic instead of any of the other major categories. Poblano alone is made in almost unlimited variations, but unsweeted chocolate does seem to be close to universal)

Are you trying to get me into trouble???

(It's because you're still pissed about that whole 'America' thing, right?)

[sladeums]

Some of the chiles were dry, especially the bag of "Pasilla Ancho" (what the label said) which I bought last year sometime on a whim.  I read that Pasillas are often mislabeled as Anchos, but the bag seemed to contain two different kinds of chiles.  Half were round and darker, the other half were slightly elongated and a bit lighter.  Could the bag have contained both?  I don't know.  

I tore the chiles into chunks because they were curling and I thought they would be eaiser to work with that way.  Now I know better.  

Grant, look at this link for a picture of the chiles:

click for an Ancho

click for a Pasilla

Those are the best pix I could find in a pinchh.

The pasilla in coloration looks very dark...the anchos appears to be dark/med dark tobacco brown on the surface, but when held up to the light yields lovely reddish-purplish hues - - the main differention is in that very triangular shape, they are usually fairly easy to scope out from the other dried chiles you mentioned because of that squat triangle shape.

It is hard to tell by packaging because, yes the pasilla (dried) is sometimes used interchangebly w/ ancho, and sometimes pasilla (fresh) is sometimes used interchangebly w/ poblano (which dried is an ancho).

So what do you think you had?

[sladeums]

To be SPECIFIC I am talking about Mole Poblano--which I have somewhat been assuming was what was being described by this topic instead of any of the other major categories.

Yes, correct, we should have established that earlier.

Just don't tell a Oaxacan that Mole Poblano is the mole of default

[gknl]

Those are the best pix I could find in a pinchh.

The pasilla in coloration looks very dark...the anchos appears to be dark/med dark tobacco brown on the surface, but when held up to the light yields lovely reddish-purplish hues - - the main differention is in that very triangular shape, they are usually fairly easy to scope out from the other dried chiles you mentioned because of that squat triangle shape.

It is hard to tell by packaging because, yes the pasilla (dried) is sometimes used interchangebly w/ ancho, and sometimes pasilla (fresh) is sometimes used interchangebly w/ poblano (which dried is an ancho).

So what do you think you had?

Some of them were ancho, but some of them were probably pasilla too. There did seem to be two distinct types of chiles in there. I would say 2/3 were ancho, triangular and wrinkled. The others I don't remember being as long as the pasilla in the photo, but they were definitely more elongated than squat. I'll look for the same kind next time I go to Kmart.

Here's the site I found that had some substitutions listed:

http://www.foodsubs.com/Chiledry.html

Chile taxonomy is confusing, just recognizing the different types is hard enough let alone matching up each chile with a taste. Good excuse to cook more, huh?

[gknl]

To be SPECIFIC I am talking about Mole Poblano--which I have somewhat been assuming was what was being described by this topic instead of any of the other major categories.

Yes, correct, we should have established that earlier.

Just don't tell a Oaxacan that Mole Poblano is the mole of default

Is there a default mole there? Or is it always the seven basics?

Thanks for the Bayliss recipe too. It looks great. And I love the name.

[sladeums]

To be SPECIFIC I am talking about Mole Poblano--which I have somewhat been assuming was what was being described by this topic instead of any of the other major categories.

Yes, correct, we should have established that earlier.

Just don't tell a Oaxacan that Mole Poblano is the mole of default

Is there a default mole there? Or is it always the seven basics?

Thanks for the Bayliss recipe too. It looks great. And I love the name.

Right, in Oaxaca there are the seven basics: Rojo, Negro, Coloradito, Amarillo, Verde, Chichilo and Manchamanteles (or Mancha Manteles). Mole Poblano, of course, originates in Puebla.

There can be variations within those, though, to come up with moles like Mole Cacahuate (peanut) or Mole Almendrado (almond), among many others, depending on what specific ingredient is being leaned on.

I don't think there is really any default when speaking of mole in Oaxaca.

Probably the most hightly esteemed (and maybe even the most common) would be Mole Negro....one of the few moles I've not had the guts to make. It involves the longest list of ingredients of all the moles - up to 6 different chiles, almonds, raisins, pumpkin seeds, peanuts, tomato, garlic and onions, plantains, chocolate, spices, bread and chile seeds, among many other possible ingredients. Most all ingredients are darkly toasted or charred (a very fine line to walk between toasted and bitterly burnt) - this can be difficult to produce in a home kitchen due to the choking fumes that are produced from the toasting chiles. I saw some program on the Food Network where Susana Trilling made this, all of the toasting, roasting etc leading up to the dish was all done outdoors. The finished product just looked phenomenal - a daunting task, though.

Mole is fun to experiment with, though. I've made some really nice ones - and also some that were pretty borderline. As you saw, letting them ripen overnight will frequently cause a dramatic change to the characteristics of the taste. I have in fact, seen some recipes that will suggest making it the day ahead and then combining with whatever meat you're using. Also, don't forget another great way to use mole is as an enchilada sauce...so always save any extra sauce!

If you were considering getting one of Diana Kennedy's books, for economy sake I would suggest the newly released 'The Essential Cuisines of Mexico'. This is a compilation of her first three books 'The Cuisines of Mexico', 'The Tortilla Book', and 'Mexican Regional Cooking'; with some updating of the recipes and an additional 30 new recipes. Nice book, don't like the design, but the contents are excellent. My personal favorite, though, is 'My Mexico'...it's part travelogue and has recipes by individual regions, so it's not laid out like your standard cookbook - great read, though.

I also came across a book at my library that surprised me, '1,000 Mexican Recipes' by Marge Poore (another Anglo!). I didn't have much expectation for this, but there was some really good stuff in this book. She covers a lot of the basic building blocks, traditional preps and then also some contemporary Mexican recipes. I had not heard of the author before, but she apparently has taught cooking classes in Mexico for around 20 years and has led culinary tours there around 30 years. You won't find a lot of technique discussed, though, so a background in how to deal with the most common ingredients is recommended.

Both of these books are available from Amazon for $24.50, hardcover and would definitely give you some ideas.

[memesuze]

A year ago in December I made my first foray into mole-making, and started with Mole Negro, what can be considered the King of moles....

I used the recipes in Zarela Martinez's two cookbooks: Food from my Heart and The Food and Life of Oaxaca. They were essentially the same, just ingredients and processes moved around. The whole process took about eight hours of prep work, cooking, and attention. I intend to repeat it this year and end up with another huge pot of mole which I can freeze in small batches for giving as holiday presents and for topping home meals with. Having done it once in one day's work, I will break it up. It takes a long time to toast and clean two pounds of dried chiles - that will be one day's events. The only step I left out was the toasting of the seeds, which leads to mucho smoke in the house and I don't have a ventilating hood - just open the windows and blow! I have given some thought to toasting them outside, but am not sure that I need to get that authentic.

I tried to find the Chihuacle Negroes that her recipe, and all other authentic Oaxacan Mole Negro recipes, calls for. But was unable to locate any in Austin or Houston. I talked to Susanna Trilling later and asked her about the Chilhuacles. She said that they are difficult to obtain even in Oaxaca, and quite costly. She recommended substituting Mulatos and Guajillos [i think, I'll have to go look at my home cookbooks]. This spring, Central Market here in Austin had some chiles they labled Chilhuacle Negroes, and, since they looked like the pictures I had in my chile books, I picked up a pound for my freezer. I'll see if they have survived and use them this year.

I encourage all of you who love moles to give the Mole Negro a shot - it does take time, but the reward is worth it. Such nuances of flavor from all the dried fruit, nuts, roasted tomatoes/onions/garlic, sherry [iIRC], chocolate, canela, and chiles.

I'd post the recipe, but it and the complete instructions and other information take up four or five pages in her book [i actually used Food and Life of Oaxaca [more recent], with glances into Food from My Heart to see if I was missing anything.] I guess I could scan it into a PDF to send out if anyone's interested.

Susan

[Jinmyo]

A great account, Grant.

I make chile pastes but not mole.

I'm a woman with no chocolate gene.

Jin, most Moles don't taste much like Chocolate.

True dat...most moles don't even have chocolate as an ingredient.

We have chocolate so tied with sugar in our minds that it is impossible to imagine the flavor and subtlety of a molé with pure, unsweetened chocolate as only one of the many rich and varied flavors.

Bitter chocolate and fiery peppers are wonderful together. I have several recipes for chili that include a dash or two of unsweetened chocolate to add substance and layer to the final dish.

But, I have finally decided, it is utterly impossible to impart the thought of chocolate in a savory dish to those who have not tried it.

Yes, shame on you Jinmyo for perpetuating this myth! Go hide in the corner!

(and contrary to what someone wrote before... most Moles I've had containing chocolate used the unsweetened variety. To be SPECIFIC I am talking about Mole Poblano--which I have somewhat been assuming was what was being described by this topic instead of any of the other major categories. Poblano alone is made in almost unlimited variations, but unsweeted chocolate does seem to be close to universal)

I've had moles with unsweetened chocolate. Better than sweetened chocolate, sure. But still not to my taste.

[Jaymes]

The whole process took about eight hours of prep work, cooking, and attention. I intend to repeat it this year and end up with another huge pot of mole which I can freeze in small batches for giving as holiday presents...

I'd post the recipe, but it and the complete instructions and other information take up four or five pages in her book [i actually used Food and Life of Oaxaca [more recent], with glances into Food from My Heart to see if I was missing anything.] I guess I could scan it into a PDF to send out if anyone's interested.

I would request that you scan it for me, but after considerable thought (and re-reading your description) have decided it would be easier for me to just seek you out, and suck up shamelessly, until I get added to your "holiday presents" list.

[sladeums]

A year ago in December I made my first foray into mole-making, and started with Mole Negro, what can be considered the King of moles....

Thanks for the post memesuze, I have 'Food From My Heart' and have checked out the Oaxaca book many times from the library...I think the latter is a very good addition to any Mexican cookbook collection.

[gknl]

Thanks Sladeums and memesuze! The whole concept of mole is interesting to me with all the variations (and rivalries, I assume). Did it originate in Oaxaca and spread elsewhere? Or do they just do it best, if in fact, they do do it best? Ah, time for some research.

I made a trip to KMart tonight. They had more California and New Mexico chiles than any other kind. And in more different sized packages. Is it a regional thing that those two would be so dominant? I know there's more to using dried chiles than moles. . . . But I seem to remember reading somewhere that anchos were the most commonly used dried chile in Mexico.

I ended up buying four different kinds, all from Tampico, a Los Angeles company. Comparing the chiles to the photos on the above websites, I bought "Pasilla chili pods" with "chile ancho" beneath, which I think are ancho chiles, but the larger ones aren't as squat as the smaller ones; "Negro chili pods" which I think are dried pasillas; and then some more California and New Mexico.

The pasilla-anchos I used in the last batch were more like ancho than the dried negro/pasillas I have now (this is confusing).

I bought some canela and Ibarra chocolate (only $1.58 for 18 oz!) too, thinking I should try harder to follow the recipe next time (of course, that's when I usually screw up ).

I also picked up something called "Cola de Caballo- shave grass" which I'd never noticed before and thought was interesting/weird. It does look like grass and the package said to use 1 tablespoon of herbs per cup of boiling water. Smells like grass too. Anyone try it before?

Thanks for the book recomendations too. Decisions, decisions. . . . If it's not too personal to ask, how many cookbooks/Mexican cookbooks do you have? I've always liked them, but lately it's gotten worse. I forget who it was, but when asked how many good recipes a book needed to be worth owning, the person said "one."

[sladeums]

Mole is said to have originated in Puebla in the late 1600's.

There are various tales regarading it's birth, but the majority of them agree on the dish first being served at the Santa Rosa Convent in Puebla City. Sources disagree as to which specific nun it was, who the dish was created to honor and what the rationale was behind the choice of ingredients.

This dish, Mole Poblano (literally of or from Puebla) is the most frequently served mole in the Americas.

Oaxaca, though, is the self-proclaimed "Land of the Seven Moles" and mostly gets it's fame from the fact that there are all of these regional variations on the dish throughout the state. There are even some people that believe that maybe that nun who originally made Mole Poblano cribbed some of the idea from a Mole Negro of peasant folk in Oaxaca.

I'm not sure why, maybe ease of growth or because they are so frequently used in Tex-Mex and New-Mex cooking, but from my experience regardless of where you are in this country the dried chiles you are most likely to see are the California or New Mexico varities...I believe they are the same chile actually. In Mexico it might be a toss up as to which chile is used more: Ancho or Guajillo. I might give the edge to Guajillo as the standard workaday chile.

As we discussed earlier, identifying some of the chiles can be difficult because of the naming problems.

What is most commonly referred to in recipes as Pasilla (fresh it's a chilaca) can also appear as Chile Negro (fresh it's a Pasilla).

What is most commonly referred to as Ancho (fresh a Poblano) can also appear as Pasilla (fresh a Pasilla as well).....Got it?

This naming inconsistency is supposedly most prevalant on the West Coast from what I've read. The main thing you need to be concerned w/ though is being able to identify them on sight so you can get past this Ancho/Pasilla thing. The pictures on both of the websites we linked earlier have pretty decent represantations of the chiles and the main way you're going to be able to tell is looking at the stem end.

The Pasilla will be long and fairly uniformly narrow.

The Ancho will be much wider at the top and look like a rounded off triangle.

Also, get a look at the colors - - the Pasilla is going to look more brown to brownish black on the surface and the color won't change a whole lot when held up to the light.

The Ancho will look quite brown with maybe red or brickish tinges on the surface. When held up to the light it will have a very distinct reddish purplish hue that you don't pick up quite so clearly on the surface.

Maybe try looking at this site...here's their index, just scroll down to the dried chile section to check 'em out - some of the pictures are bigger and more obvious I think than our earlier links:

click me for yet more Chile pix

The Cola de Caballo you got is known as Field Horsetail. Traditionally it was prescribed as a tea for treating kidney stones, prostate or urinary tract issues and dysentery...or as an exteranl treatment for hemorrhoids or open wounds...some other info is here:

click me for Equisetum arvense link

I'll check back in later on the cookbooks....I have to get something done at work today.

[gknl]

This naming inconsistency is supposedly most prevalant on the West Coast from what I've read.  The main thing you need to be concerned w/ though is being able to identify them on sight so you can get past this Ancho/Pasilla thing. The pictures on both of the websites we linked earlier have pretty decent represantations of the chiles and the main way you're going to be able to tell is looking at the stem end.

The Pasilla will be long and fairly uniformly narrow.

The Ancho will be much wider at the top and look like a rounded off triangle.

Thanks for the mole history story. Sounds like a good movie idea.

I think I've got a handle on chile identification, among the basic types I bought. I thought I was missing something really obvious about the names, but I'm glad to see it is just that confusing until you learn them. And having them side by side makes comparing them much easier, even the smells. This is fun!

The horsetail stuff sounds scary. I think I'll just dump it.

[sladeums]

Yes, after you become familar w/ the chiles the differences are very, very obvious.

I'm not in any condition to demand need of the Field Horsetail, so I may pass on that as well.

As to your previous question in regards to cookbooks, I own:

The Art of Mexican Cooking, Diana Kennedy

The Cuisines of Mexico, Diana Kennedy

Food From My Heart, Zarela Martinez

Mexico The Beautiful, Susanna Palazuelos, Marilyn Tausend, et al

Of all those I own, the one that I am least pleased with is 'Food From My Heart'....the rest are must owns.

I have read many more (beware of the self-indulgent list, I scrolled thorugh every book in the appropriate category on Amazon) - most of them are available at my public library, so I don't feel driven to buy them:

all of Diana Kennedy's, all of Rick Bayless', all of Zarela's book - except for her most recent 'Veracruz', all of Patricia Quintana's, '1,000 Mexican Recipes' which I earlier mentioned by Marge Poore, 'Cocina de la Familia' by Marilyn Tausend, 'The Complete Book of Mexican Cooking' and 'The Festive Food of Mexico' by Elisabeth Lambert Ortiz, 'Recipe of Memory: Five Generations of Mexican Cuisine' by Victor M. Valle (this one is very much worh checking out because it's one of the very few Mexican cookbooks I've seen presented with a male's recipes), 'A Cook's Tour of Mexico: Authentic Recipes from the Country's Best Open-Air Markets, City Fondas, and Home Kitchens' by Nancy Zaslavsky, 'Rosa Mexicano' by Josefina Howard...and quite a few more that may have not been listed on Amazon.

There are also many, many more I've paged through - but after doing so I was not real interested in them. All of the Milliken/Fenniger books meet this criteria...basically, if the book was not obviously using traditional ingredients and was too forgiving with modern updates, I bypassed it. I was more interested in understanding the roots of Mexican cuisine and not as interested in how to recreate standards in the modern kitchen and pantry.

All of the books above are worthwhile...but as I previously stated, the (somewhat)-newly issued 'The Essential Cuisines of Mexico' by Diana Kennedy (over 300 recipes) is a must buy - especially if you are just starting to feel your way around this genre of food...IMO any book by Diana Kennedy is worth owning - I noticed on Amazon that she has a book slated for release in 2003 titled, 'Techniques and Ingredients of the Mexican Kitchen'.

My second recommendation would be '1,000 Mexican Recipes' by Marge Poore - especially if you are familar w/ how to deal w/ the standard ingredients and because of the fact that on perusal, the wealth of recipes is just outstanding - - please note, though, I haven't actually tested any of these, I am judging it solely on the way the recipes read.

Don't forget, if you link through the Amazon logo at the bottom of the page you are supporting eGullet, which should give you ample excuse to pitch off $25.00.

On my personal wishlist, there are a few cookbooks that I have been able to page through in bookstores, but they are not available in my public library, and for me their price is prohibitive.

If anyone has access to them, let me know. They are:

The Mexican Gourmet - Maria Dolores Torrez Yzabal

Seasons of My Heart: A Culinary Journey Through Oaxaca, Mexico - Susana Trilling

Frida's Fiestas: Recipes and Reminiscences of Life With Frida Kahlo - Guadalupe Rivera Marin