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Tweety69bird

Molded Ganache: Tips and Techniques

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That is a high proportion of liquid for white chocolate, you could try less cream, or, once the ganache has cooled to room temperature, agitate it to induce crystallization, or until it starts to thicken. Somebody recommends the cooling then stirring for some of his recipes, I don't recall if it is Greweling or Wybauw or someone else, but it has helped me a few times when a ganache seems like it will definitely be too soft and I don't want to mess around with adding more chocolate. I would also question whether the cocoa butter needs to be melted. Maybe adding unmelted cocoa butter would help add seed crystals and firm things up?

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What are the proportions of the ingredients in the ganache?

Duh - apparently I didn't see that he'd already written them in his post.

I use somewhere between 110 and 120 grams of cream for that amount of chocolate (you could go higher for a softer center). Of course it would be higher with the cocoa butter added - but not 300 grams.

I suspect if the cocoa butter wasn't melted it would not successfully melt out with just hot cream and you might end up with cocoa butter lumps. I'd be having it at as cool a temperature as possible though when I mixed it in.

Might be worth changing the way you put this one together - chocolate and cocoa butter melted and at 30º C, cream and glucose at 40º C when you mix them together.

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Kerry Beal, on 14 Apr 2013 - 22:06, said:

I use somewhere between 110 and 120 grams of cream for that amount of chocolate (you could go higher for a softer center). Of course it would be higher with the cocoa butter added - but not 300 grams.

...

Might be worth changing the way you put this one together - chocolate and cocoa butter melted and at 30º C, cream and glucose at 40º C when you mix them together.

Thanks for all the ideas.

Usually when a recipe calls for adding melted cocoa butter later, I have just melted it together with the chocolate and haven't ever had an issue (I didn't do that this time since I had had problems with the recipe before and so was cautious). Ordinarily I start the cocoa butter first, then add whatever chocolate is called for. I'm gentler with white since I have had some bad experiences with it.

I too was beginning to question the proportions in this recipe. I checked Notter's book, and his general formula for molded cream ganache is 1.5 parts (white) chocolate to 1 part cream. Since the mint recipe has 300 g cream, it should have 450 g chocolate; it actually has 483 g chocolate + cocoa butter, so it is close. But as others pointed out, that is a lot of cream. Greweling, on the other hand, recommends proportions of 2.5 parts white chocolate to 1 part cream. I think the proportions are the problem.

But, to complicate matters further, other Notter recipes have worked for me. His wonderful recipe for raspberry and orange filling (highly recommended) has, for the orange-dark chocolate ganache, 100 g cream + 165 g orange juice (so 265 g liquefier), which would call for 265 g chocolate (his proportions for dark choc. are 1 choc. to 1 cream). Instead he calls for 175 g choc. That is a significant difference, but the ganache turned out beautifully.

By the way, in researching this proportion matter, I found that both Greweling and Notter ignore their own general ratios much of the time.

Back to the mint ganache: I did stir it while it was cooling, and that did not seem to help. I think making it more like a butter ganache, where the chocolate is tempered, would help; my suspicion is that pouring the almost-boiling cream onto the white chocolate may be too much of a shock. I've never quite understood why it is OK to take choc. so far out of temper with hot cream. It's just a nuisance to take the time to temper chocolate for ganache, or is that just me? It's also a trick to get the choc. and the liquefiers at more or less the same temperature to combine them.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. No matter what technique one uses for this mint ganache, I do think the proportions need to be adjusted (more choc. or less cream).


Edited by Jim D. (log)

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Do you blend the ganache before piping it? That helps crystallize the chocolate, which eventually thickens it.

From my experience, you can pretty much get any ratio of cream:chocolate to thicken enough to mold (and sometimes even for dipped chocolates), depending on how crystallized the ganache is.

What temperature is the ganache in when you pipe it? That's another factor in how it will set.

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And Kerry's suggestion is a good one to make sure you get enough crystallization.

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Do you blend the ganache before piping it? That helps crystallize the chocolate, which eventually thickens it.

From my experience, you can pretty much get any ratio of cream:chocolate to thicken enough to mold (and sometimes even for dipped chocolates), depending on how crystallized the ganache is.

What temperature is the ganache in when you pipe it? That's another factor in how it will set.

Yes, I was stirring the ganache as it cooled. I cooled it to around 78-80 F. Notter calls for 88 F., Greweling for 77. When I filled the cavities, the ganache poured out in a completely liquid form.

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Do you blend the ganache before piping it? That helps crystallize the chocolate, which eventually thickens it.

From my experience, you can pretty much get any ratio of cream:chocolate to thicken enough to mold (and sometimes even for dipped chocolates), depending on how crystallized the ganache is.

What temperature is the ganache in when you pipe it? That's another factor in how it will set.

Yes, I was stirring the ganache as it cooled. I cooled it to around 78-80 F. Notter calls for 88 F., Greweling for 77. When I filled the cavities, the ganache poured out in a completely liquid form.
Try letting it cool completely to room temperature, then stirring.

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From my experience, you can pretty much get any ratio of cream:chocolate to thicken enough to mold (and sometimes even for dipped chocolates), depending on how crystallized the ganache is.

This is my experience also. I have made truffles and dipped bonbons using William Curley's formula, which is 1:1.15 ratio cream to dark chocolate. All have set up beautifully, but for all of them I started with melted, tempered chocolate at working temperature.

Try letting it cool completely to room temperature, then stirring.

And this is what I do for the ganaches I use to fill cakes. I use a 1:1 ratio of cream to dark chocolate, then boil the cream and pour it on top of the unmelted chocolate. Stir to emulsify, cool to room temperature undisturbed, then start stirring every once in a while. In about half hour, the ganache becomes of spreadable consistency, so I can fill and frost a cake with it.


Edited by DianaM (log)

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This is my experience also. I have made truffles and dipped bonbons using William Curley's formula, which is 1:1.15 ratio cream to dark chocolate. All have set up beautifully, but for all of them I started with melted, tempered chocolate at working temperature.

Then something is clearly different about the Notter mint recipe. Of course the typical cream ganache recipe does not call for tempering the chocolate but for pouring hot cream over chopped chocolate.

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I have been ready a little all the suggestions. If I may bring in mine.

- As Kerry said, your content of cocoa butter overall for the amount of cream is slightly short. In average the ratio is 1 part cream for 2 part chocolate, depending on the type of milk or white used (and brand).

- there is no issue if you temper your ganache in the fridge for 5-10 min. In my opinion and trainings, setting a ganache overnight/24 hours or ... To let it crust is a pretty dangerous technique althought sometimes useful to crust the ganache but in my case often contaminating it (flour, yeast environment,...)

- I generally like to blend in my cocoa butter grated or powder works like a charm (oh wonderful mycrio) at 35 degrees in order to keep this one tempered. Adding this amount of cocoa butter in your ganache creates a super thin chocolate, which can possibly have a setting temperature much lower (it might not makes full sense this part but I understand myself :-))

- if you pipe in your ganache do so at the lowest temperature possible. In this case ideally 25 Celsius at the most. The heat Choco will create an eventual bloom.

- in the eventuality that they don't release, stick them in the freezer for 5 minutes they should kindly get out. And an easy fix is to spray them with a mix of 10 g of shimmer or powder color and 50 g of alcohol the higher the better

Do ask if you have any questions.

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Hello, I'm relatively new here. I read a lot, but this is my first post.

 

I have two questions for the group:

1. I currently have a coconut cream center I make consisting of 1/2 white chocolate (El Rey Icoa) and 1/2 coconut oil, that's it. I melt them together and stir until thick, then mold it. I have had a very difficult time capping the mold without the filling melting and breaking the seal. I am considering cutting the coconut oil with cocobutter since the melting point is roughly 20 degrees higher. I'd just like some feedback and advice from anyone that has had experience with this type of issue. Or from anyone that has a good guess really.  :)

 

2. I have a ganache recipe using cream, instant coffee and cardamom that always goes off faster than my others even though nothing is different regarding ratios and production processes. I had a conversation with a pastry chef I know who said that cardamom and cream don't play well with one other for more than a short while. I use invert sugar to stabalize and extend shelf life, but it hasn't mattered. I'm heartbroken because I love this ganache and it's one of my clientels favorites and most requested. Any insight?

Thanks in advance.

Shelley


Edited by Wicked Bonbon (log)

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(1) About the coconut filling:  What kind of chocolate do you use for molding?  In the recipe for a similar filling, Jean-Pierre Wybauw (in his second ganache book) says: "Since the coconut fat, when coated with dark chocolate, can cause fatbloom within a relatively short period, it is recommended to coat this filling with milk chocolate."  Peter Greweling (in Chocolates and Confections) may have insights useful to you in his discussion of "eutectics":  "When coconut fat with a 33C/92F melting point is combined with cocoa butter, which melts at around 34C/94F, the resulting mixture melts well below the temperature of either of the component fats...." (p. 343)--thus providing the "meltaway" effect of a solid but quickly melting confection.  Perhaps that is what you are getting when you mix cocoa butter (in the white chocolate) with the coconut fat.  If that is the case, it is not clear whether adding cocoa butter would help your situation, though it might be worth experimenting.

 

(2) About the cardamom ganache:  I have used Wybauw's recipe (from the same book as above)--which sounds much the same as your recipe, including the use of invert sugar.  It was very popular and lasted at least a month with no sign of spoilage.  I've never heard that warning about mixing cardamom and cream.  How soon did your filling go off?

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Coconut filling: I mould in El Rey 74%. Fat bloom isn't the issue, it's that I can't get a consistent seal between the botton and the cup because the filling melts so fast. I think my 50-50% mix is going to have to change. I have the books you speak of, but both of these lovely gentlemen (Notter too) change their recommendations/ratios a fair amount depending so it's hard to determine if something will or won't work. I think my best option is to try a 70-30% and see how that work.

 

Cardamom ganache will last only about 14 days where as all of my other ganach centers last ~6 weeks depending on storage.

 

I am a provisional user so this may be my last post until May 10th. :(  Thanks for everyone's help, I hope I can respond sooner rather than later.

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Most infusions have the potential to decrease the shelf life of ganaches because they inoculate the ganache with bacteria.  I don't know the exact process you're using but it might be worth re-boiling your cream mixture after straining out the cardamom if you're not already doing so.

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Hi everyone! 

 

I had a question I was hoping someone would be able to help shed some light on. I've been making a peanut butter ganache (basically peanut butter and milk chocolate) that is really nice and fluid when first molded but after like 3 days it becomes more like a praline in texture (drier, harder). How can I keep it gooey? Any advice or tips? 

 

Thanks!!!

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What you have made is a gianduja. It will always harden. Try making a ganache and adding peanut butter.

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I agree with Chocolat.  You could change the ratios to yield a softer gianduja.  I use 2:1 milk chocolate to peanut butter and it is firm enough to slab and almost too firm to cut - I've taken to filling my frames only 3/4 so I don't break guitar strings trying to force them through the last few rows (making a rectangle in square ganache frames, not a shallower square).  Equal parts would be much softer, but still probably not as soft as ganache.

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Oh! Didn't realize that it was a gianduja. 

 

So I should make a ganache with cream and add peanut butter?  

 

What if I added things like butter or maybe cocoa butter would that make a difference?

 

I really want it to stay runny. 

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Oh! Didn't realize that it was a gianduja. 

 

So I should make a ganache with cream and add peanut butter?  

 

What if I added things like butter or maybe cocoa butter would that make a difference?

 

I really want it to stay runny. 

As pastrygirl said, you can either make a softer gianduja (a higher ratio of peanut butter to chocolate) or use cream and chocolate to make a ganache and add peanut butter.  I think the gianduja will give a more intense peanut butter flavor, but the ganache will probably come closer to the texture you want.  I would try a small amount of each to see which you prefer.  Once you find out (keeping a record of your ingredient weights), it is easy to scale the recipe up to the quantity you need.

 

As for adding butter or cocoa butter, butter will add a little firmness but not a lot, but although cocoa butter will at first thin the mixture, it will end up making it considerably more firm.  Many ganache recipes call for adding cocoa butter because it adds firmness without contributing (much) flavor.  I don't think that is what you want.

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Ok cool thanks!

 

The only trouble is that it's not apparent right away! When I first unmold them and bite in they are soft but after a day or two it gets considerably firmer.

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That's why I suggested the ganache will come closer to what you want.  The cream used in a ganache (if you use enough) will keep it from getting so firm.  A common ratio suggested for milk chocolate ganache is 2.5:1 (chocolate to cream), but you might aim for something closer to 1.5:1.  I did find a recipe online that called for heating the peanut butter and cream together, then emulsifying with the chocolate (that recipe specified dark chocolate--I think I would use milk).  If you find the chocolate taste is overwhelming the peanut butter more than you like, you can substitute some cocoa butter for part of the chocolate.  I think experimenting is the way to go.  I make up 100g batches of a ganache to see what the flavor is going to be like; that way you are not wasting too many expensive ingredients--but you do have to keep a record of what you do.

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Ok cool thanks!

 

The only trouble is that it's not apparent right away! When I first unmold them and bite in they are soft but after a day or two it gets considerably firmer.

 

If you want to play with ratios and see how they affect firmness, use tempered chocolate and it will set up as firm as its going to get within an hour or so.  Other fats have a softening effect on the cocoa butter, so the more peanut oil you add, the softer your gianduja. 

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Thank you pastry girl! Excellent tips I had no idea!

 

I'm hesitant about using cream because like Jim said I don't want to dilute the flavor so maybe peanut oil is the way to go.

 

I'm going to follow Jim's advice and experiment with small batches.

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