Minimalist No-Knead Bread Technique (Part 1)

[Poffertjes]

I think my bread is stuck in my pan.

Right now the pan is resting upside down on a cooling rack.

Its stuck.

5qt enamel cast iron pot.

450 degrees

took it out when it sustained 210 degrees.

Its stuck. I've tried a spatula and a filet knife.

Don't know what to do.

Help!

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Okay, so I got it out. They bottom is a little soggy. But its on the rack hanging out, sans pan.

So oil next time?

Edited December 8, 2006 by Poffertjes (log)

[ChefCrash]

This is what I did:

16 oz bread flour

1/4 tsp yeast

2 1/4 tsp salt

1 1/2 C water.

The dough was too dry and took another 1/4 C water to look right. This fermented for 20 hours.

I don't own (and never will) a cast iron dutch oven, I wanted to make baguettes. I punched the dough, split it in two and formed two baguettes. Placed a moist towel on them and let them rest two hours.

After two hours the baguettes were too flat so I balled them into two round loaves and let them rest another hour.

I placed a water pan in the bottom of the oven and preheated to 475*

I baked the first one on parchment in a half sheet pan.

Baked the fist one 30 minutes. It looked like it was giving birth.

I baked the second one in convection mode (effectively @ 450*) also for 30 minutes.

It's the one on your left.

This is what the first one looked like 30 minutes after baking.

Both loaves were about 7" in diameter and weight each at 14 oz. but felt much heavier. Even with almost twice the salt, they tasted pretty bland.

I was hoping I'd found a good recipe for light and airy baguettes.

[johnder]

woot! This bread was much better than the one a few nights ago. This was the combo white/rye/whole wheat. before the final proof I dusted it with some rice flour and cracked wheat. The combo of the flours and the nutty flavor of the cracked wheat really worked well.

[weinoo]

weinoo - that is one beautiful bread you baked - it's one of the best looking on the thread, and I like the looser crumb than the poilane bread (which I haven't yet had the pleasure of trying).

You basically used a levain technique - building up a bit of dough and using that in the final one as the yeast source.

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Wow, thanks, Sam!!

Is the main reason a levain different than a sourdough the fact that yeast is used in the beginning to help start the first dough off?

[David Lebovitz]

The metric conversions seems off that was printed. Anyone else have that problem?

The original recipe says '3 cups flour', then in his revisted recipe, he calls for 430 grams of flour. When I weighed my 3 cups of flour, I got 370 grams. Although it's not necessary to be exact for breadmaking, I thought it curious to be different by 100 grams.

(Note: I'm using French flour, which I bought from my boulanger. Regular French flour is similar to cake flour in the US, which I didn't want to try, so I asked for strong bread flour.)

My dough was still rather wet, not as 'tight' as the dough in the NYTimes video. Will bake it tomorrow and see, but may head to the health food store for better flour options.

[cajungirl]

So oil next time?

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I wouldn't oil it, you'll get smoke. There was oil residue im my cast iron and it smoked pretty badly when I baked my first loaf.

[SparrowsFall]

I think my bread is stuck in my pan.

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This happened to me twice--stuck solid as a rock--once in cast iron and once in corningware. Every other time it dropped right out. Go figger. I think (surmise, guess?) that the sticking results from too-wet dough. Yes, oiling works and doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Steve

[annecros]

I think my bread is stuck in my pan.

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This happened to me twice--stuck solid as a rock--once in cast iron and once in corningware. Every other time it dropped right out. Go figger. I think (surmise, guess?) that the sticking results from too-wet dough. Yes, oiling works and doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Steve

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The only other thing I can think of is preheating the pot - on the sticking issue, that is. I have not had this problem, ever, and have had some soggy stuff flopped in there. But, thinking back, I almost always hear a split second sizzle and see the exterior of the loaf - on the top which is visible - instantly dry and take on a new texture. Maybe the burst of steam on the bottom acts as an insulator as the loaf "sears" on the bottom, and does not stick?

Am I making sense? I've used both cast iron and enamel on cast iron, no pyrex yet.

Edited December 8, 2006 by annecros (log)

[skyflyer3]

I want to make baguettes as well. How can we make it happen? Shape into breadsticks on parchment, then slide onto a pizza stone and hope it expands?

[Pam R]

I'm not a bread baker - my few attempts years ago taught me that it was much easier to buy it . I've read every post in this topic and decided that it was time for me to jump on the bandwagon.

Night before last I scooped and shook 3 cups of flour, added 1/4 tsp of yeast and 2 tsp. of kosher salt then 1 1/2 cups of water. Since winter has set in with a vengeance, it's very dry here - and the water wasn't enough. I probably added another 1/4 of a cup, until it was a sticky, gooey mess. So now I thought I had gone too far, but left it, covered with plastic on the counter for about 22 hours. As soon as I came home from work I turned it out onto a floured counter and sort of folded it. Then onto a piece of floured parchment, generous sprinkling of flour and plastic wrap.

Preheated to 500, and my smaller enamel pot and lid went into the oven for 1/2 an hour. I was going to try to flip the dough over and into the pot, but I hadn't been generous enough with the flour and it was sticking to the paper, so I just plunked the whole thing (with paper) into the pot. Reduced temp. to 450, baked covered for 25 minutes and uncovered for 25-30 more.

(a bit too generous with the flour dusting on top)

I was too eager to cut into it and try it to wait until it was completely cooled . Nonetheless, it was fantastic. I'll be better with the next one and let it cool completely.

I'm going to get me some rye flour on the way home - caraway seeds are already sitting on the counter in my kitchen.

[prasantrin]

The metric conversions seems off that was printed. Anyone else have that problem?

The original recipe says '3 cups flour', then in his revisted recipe, he calls for 430 grams of flour. When I weighed my 3 cups of flour, I got 370 grams. Although it's not necessary to be exact for breadmaking, I thought it curious to be different by 100 grams.

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As I understand it, there's some debate as to how much a cup of flour weighs. Some people get 4oz/cup, some get 5oz/cup. Sounds like he's getting (or using) 5oz/cup, but you're getting 4 oz/cup.

For anyone who hasn't seen the video, it can still be accessed on the NYTimes website if you go to the Multimedia section, which can be found here. From the video, you can also still access the original article and from there, the recipe (without paying the archive fee). You may need to register or logon to their website before you can access it.

[Patrick S]

The metric conversions seems off that was printed. Anyone else have that problem?

The original recipe says '3 cups flour', then in his revisted recipe, he calls for 430 grams of flour. When I weighed my 3 cups of flour, I got 370 grams. Although it's not necessary to be exact for breadmaking, I thought it curious to be different by 100 grams.

(Note: I'm using French flour, which I bought from my boulanger. Regular French flour is similar to cake flour in the US, which I didn't want to try, so I asked for strong bread flour.)

My dough was still rather wet, not as 'tight' as the dough in the NYTimes video. Will bake it tomorrow and see, but may head to the health food store for better flour options.

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430g is actually pretty typical for 3C of AP flour measured by the method used in the video.

[Joe Blowe]

In the Cadco,

For All to See,

A Loaf of Bread,

Inspired by Jim Lahey!

I'm a poet, and I didn't even know it!

Edited To Add: I'm not quite sure I like this yet. It was definitely the easiest loaf of bread I've ever made, used the least amount of kitchen tools, could be made in a small convection oven (as pictured in the poem/links above), had a great crust, yada yada.

BUT, I find the flavor a little flat. I used Bittman's updated recipe (weight vs. volume) with the little extra salt, but it seems a wee bit flavorless to me (crust aside) using standard AP flour. Maybe it's this thread -- I thought I was going to create SuperLoaf right out of the gate!

I guess it's apparent to me now why people immediately started tweaking this recipe -- it's a great start, but there has got to be something beyond this.

Next batch will be made with unbleached AP flour, then I'll try some hi-glute, and so on. And, I'll probably pick up "No Need to Knead"!

Edited December 9, 2006 by Joe Blowe (log)

[weinoo]

(a bit too generous with the flour dusting on top)  - NO WAY!

I was too eager to cut into it and try it to wait until it was completely cooled  .  Nonetheless, it was fantastic.  I'll be better with the next one and let it cool completely.

I'm going to get me some rye flour on the way home - caraway seeds are already sitting on the counter in my kitchen.

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Beautiful bread, there, Pam!!

[David Lebovitz]

The metric conversions seems off that was printed. Anyone else have that problem?

The original recipe says '3 cups flour', then in his revisted recipe, he calls for 430 grams of flour. When I weighed my 3 cups of flour, I got 370 grams. Although it's not necessary to be exact for breadmaking, I thought it curious to be different by 100 grams.

(Note: I'm using French flour, which I bought from my boulanger. Regular French flour is similar to cake flour in the US, which I didn't want to try, so I asked for strong bread flour.)

My dough was still rather wet, not as 'tight' as the dough in the NYTimes video. Will bake it tomorrow and see, but may head to the health food store for better flour options.

←

430g is actually pretty typical for 3C of AP flour measured by the method used in the video.

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Hmmm. In the video, he just stuck the cup in, filled it up, and pulled it out. He seems like a rather copious '1 cup' to me. My dough is very, very runny and I had to add flour after the first rising to get it to look like more than a sponge.

So, I decided to try to find bread flour here in France, and after going to a grain shop (he didn't have it), and two supermarkets, I found something called Farine pour Pain de Campagne, which is a blend of wheat, whole-wheat, and rye, with something called 'levain de blé désactivé'. I presume it's a dried form of sourdough, added for flavor.

Anyhow...so I measured AND weighed American all-purpose flour vs French all-purpose flour (organic, type 65) vs French bread flour.

I compared the 'dip & sweep' method vs the 'spoon & level' method. The results were uniform across the board within a few grams, which for breadmaking, should not make much of a difference. (What did make a difference was stirring the flour first before measuring, as there was a 1/2 cup /50gr difference.) But even by using packed flour, I didn't get anywhere near 430 gr.

Here's what I got:

1 cup flour=120-125grams

(Edited later: Which may mean my Oxo measuring cup is off, since I normally find 1 cup flour=140 gr)

So for 3 cups of US all-purpose flour, according to this, should be 360 gr (or 420 gr?)

The metrics given in the NYTimes revision say 430 gr flour. The 345 gr water they called for roughly equals 1 1/2 cups (about 12 oz). Curiously, Clotidle from Chocolate&Zucchini noted she used 2 kinds of flour, (which she calls farine bise and farine semi-complète...which she described as 'semi-complete' or partially whole wheat, and am not sure what farine bise is.)

Still, based on my measuring of 3 various types of flour; US all-purpose, French all-purpose (similar to US cake flour), and French bread flour, that's quite a difference.

Edited December 9, 2006 by David Lebovitz (log)

[MelissaH]

Hmmm. In the video, he just stuck the cup in, filled it up, and pulled it out. He seems like a rather copious '1 cup' to me. My dough is very, very runny and I had to add flour after the first rising to get it to look like more than a sponge.

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If you watch carefully, you can see him actually shaking the cup, which will pack the flour in even more tightly. In this case, 430 g is really about right.

MelissaH

[johnder]

Ok, now that I am on my 4th batch I have a question. Given I never baked bread with any regularity before this, what exactly would be the perfect crumb on this type of bread?

I assume we are looking for a webby inside where the crumb is light and completely cooked and the thinner parts of the web are translucent and glistening in the light. And overall the smell of the crumb is yeasty but not that wet undercooked yeast smell.

Does that sound about right?

[David Lebovitz]

Hmmm. In the video, he just stuck the cup in, filled it up, and pulled it out. He seems like a rather copious '1 cup' to me. My dough is very, very runny and I had to add flour after the first rising to get it to look like more than a sponge.

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If you watch carefully, you can see him actually shaking the cup, which will pack the flour in even more tightly. In this case, 430 g is really about right.

MelissaH

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Being ever-so-curious, I made two more batches. My first one would make a great candidate for a no-knead flatbread (...hmm, maybe I should wait a few years and get Mr. Bittman over here to make it for the Times once everyone's forgotten about this one.)

Batch #1: I used US all-purpose flour, 3 cups exactly, (to 1 1/2 cups water) which made a nice, sticky, and 'together' dough.

Batch #2: I used French 'bread' flour, starting with 3 cups, but adding a bit more, a tablespoon at a time, until I added an extra 1/4 cup (40 gr), until it looked close to Batch #1.

Will bake them both tomorrow.

I don't know what I'm going to do with all this bread. I guess I'll have some happy neighbors!

[Patrick S]

Anyhow...so I measured AND weighed American all-purpose flour vs French all-purpose flour (organic, type 65) vs French bread flour.

I compared the 'dip & sweep' method vs the 'spoon & level' method. The results were uniform across the board within a few grams, which for breadmaking, should not make much of a difference. (What did make a difference was stirring the flour first before measuring, as there was a 1/2 cup /50gr difference.) But even by using packed flour, I didn't get anywhere near 430 gr.

Here's what I got:

1 cup flour=120-125grams

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Hmm . . . I can't account for the discrepancy. I have weighed several varieties of American AP flour and always got values between about 135 and 155g, with the average somewhere around 145. In fact, I recently found a dip-and-sweep cup of King Arthur AP flour out of a just-opened bad weighed 156g. I also verified that my scale was accurate to within 1g, and that the cup I was using was 235ml in volume. And I know its not my own idiosyncratic result, because many other people (e.g. Berenbaum in her Cake Bible) have reported a similar result.

I wonder if there's any chance that the cup you are using has a smaller volume? Recently I looked at 3 liquid measures I have, and was suprised to find that one of them measured a cup that was a good 10ml smaller than the other two. I only have one dry measure cup, and it is 235ml, but I wouldn't be too suprised to find that there are similar differences in dry measure cup volume as well.

[daniellewiley]

Has anyone else tried letting their kid make it? That's one of the things that appealed to me from the first recipe; the tease that even a four year old could make it. I didn't have one of those laying around, but I DID have a five year old, and she made a beautiful loaf. I'm eager to try some of the variations - this was a bit too white for my tastes.

Here are the details.

[David Lebovitz]

I checked my graduated measuring cups (Oxo, Pyrex, and Foley) and only the Foley was close to 140 gr, at around 138 gr (which to me, is close enough.)

Another reason to go metric. I'm going to try the metric equivalents M. Fromartz gave since his bread looked the best of the lot.

Still, I have to make the adjustments for the flour as well.

Ok...on to batch #4...

[Scott_R]

Has anyone else tried letting their kid make it? That's one of the things that appealed to me from the first recipe; the tease that even a four year old could make it. I didn't have one of those laying around, but I DID have a five year old, and she made a beautiful loaf. I'm eager to try some of the variations - this was a bit too white for my tastes.

Here are the details.

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I hope that it doesn't have to be said that I would let a kid get anywhere NEAR smoking-hot cast iron.

[tammylc]

I pulled off some dough from this batch to use in my next one. Do I need to do anything special to it before I use it? And how do I incorporate it in a fresh batch?

[annecros]

Has anyone else tried letting their kid make it? That's one of the things that appealed to me from the first recipe; the tease that even a four year old could make it. I didn't have one of those laying around, but I DID have a five year old, and she made a beautiful loaf. I'm eager to try some of the variations - this was a bit too white for my tastes.

Here are the details.

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I hope that it doesn't have to be said that I would let a kid get anywhere NEAR smoking-hot cast iron.

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It is detailed on her blog that Mom did in fact handle the cast iron, though it does bear repeating here I suppose.

I think its great that her five year old got to make bread! Nothing but good will come of that.

[daniellewiley]

Has anyone else tried letting their kid make it? That's one of the things that appealed to me from the first recipe; the tease that even a four year old could make it. I didn't have one of those laying around, but I DID have a five year old, and she made a beautiful loaf. I'm eager to try some of the variations - this was a bit too white for my tastes.

Here are the details.

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I hope that it doesn't have to be said that I would let a kid get anywhere NEAR smoking-hot cast iron.

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It is detailed on her blog that Mom did in fact handle the cast iron, though it does bear repeating here I suppose.

I think its great that her five year old got to make bread! Nothing but good will come of that.

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She does help make quesadillas at the stove, but I'd have to be pretty damn crazy to let her handle a Le Creuset that was pre-heated to 450 degrees.

She was very proud of the bread. I told her that we would try some new variations this week, and she has requested olive.