Canned Tomatoes

[rockhopper]

I use Cento paste, puree and "italian style" tomatoes in my gravy.

San Marzano tomatoes are truly no better but they do have yuppie snob appeal for the Saint Mario crowd.

[Holly Moore]

anyway, i've been liking Pomi brand tomato products. made by parmalat i think, and widely available i'd think.

I totally agree. I've been buying Pomi in a box at Trader Joe's for quite a while.

I do like the Muir Glen Fire-Roasted Tomatoes very much in spicy sausage pasta dishes.

So I went to my local Trader Joe's and asked for tomatoes in a box. The ever-so-helpful guy in the tropical shirt took me to the produce section, and pointed me to the fresh tomatoes in a cellophane wrapped tray.

Then we went to the tomato section and the only tomato products there were a couple of facings of canned tomatoes - with and without salt as I recall.

[tommy]

San Marzano tomatoes are truly no better but they do have yuppie snob appeal for the Saint Mario crowd.

color me a saint mario following yuppie snob.

[gabe]

So I went to my local Trader Joe's and asked for tomatoes in a box. The ever-so-helpful guy in the tropical shirt took me to the produce section, and pointed me to the fresh tomatoes in a cellophane wrapped tray.

Then we went to the tomato section and the only tomato products there were a couple of facings of canned tomatoes - with and without salt as I recall.

I dropped by Carlino's in Ardmore on my way home yesterday and was quite disappointed by their tomato product selection. I guess they probably wish they had more space, too.

The only line of canned tomatoes they carried were Cento, imported San Marzano style, from Italy. I bought a can (I've had these before), but grumbled at the ridiculous price ($3.29? Come on).

Luckily, there is much besides canned tomatoes to recommend that store. It was packed quite to the gills with Italian food lovers shopping for the holidays. I think the four people in front of me at the meat counter each bought the fanciest San Daniele prosciutto available.

[Fat Guy]

I've never done a San Marzano v. San Marzano-style/species taste test. I'd like to.

[tommy]

I've never done a San Marzano v. San Marzano-style/species taste test. I'd like to.

i'd like to as well, although i'm not sure that my sense of taste would necessarily be keen enough to make any kind of solid determination. on a related note, there's a point at which one must take what countless others have said on a subject, and just kinda go with it.

[rockhopper]

I've never done a San Marzano v. San Marzano-style/species taste test. I'd like to.

I have - several times.

My father was a San Marzano guy. It's what they had in the "old country" so that's what he knew and searched out.

Especially since the economic depression that started in Jan 2001 I've used alternatives - breaking my 35 year San Marzano habit. Sorry to say but there are truly horrible domestic tomatoes out there. Tutto [g]Rosso comes to mind. blech.

In Southern NJ Cento products are readily available so I started using them. Actualy right at this moment Acme has them on sale and I bought several dozen cans. I don't know the original of their non Italian tomatoes. Since they are in Thorofare I'm guessing that NJ may be a partial source. Anyone know?

In a typical sunday gravy you won't be able to tell the difference with or without the SM tomatoes. The "italian style" viz., plum tomatoes from Cento have the same effect.

If you are making a marinara or something like a puttanesca then maybe you'll notice the difference. Actually I think I'll make a few puttanesche and let you know!

disclaimer:

I have absolutely no financial interest in Cento. I'm a computer consultant.

Edited December 24, 2003 by rockhopper (log)

[pjs]

I've been using the imported Cento peeled tomatoes exclusively for quite some time--$1.79/35oz can. When the Pomi boxes showed up on the supermarket shelf--$1.59/26 oz--I began stocking both.

PJ

PS: The current Cento can has a recipe for red sauce with tuna on the back--one of my favorite pasta sauces (I use Marcella's recipe though). Try finding a recipe as un-mainstream on a Progresso can--or the dish at the Olive Garden.

[tim olivett]

I like to mix fresh & canned tomatoes for sauces. No matter what brand you use there are always a few tricks to coax the best flavor out of them. You definitely find people on both sides of the fence when it comes to adding sugar to tomato sauce but I have to say sugar is a secret ingredient in many chef's pantries. If you read (& I suggest you do) Tom Valenti's "From My Kitchen" cookbook, he has a great passage about seeing another chef he respected (John Schenk) having sugar right next to the salt & pepper on his station and how happy he was to see he was not alone. I use bar sugar since it dissolve instantly, in hot or cold to tweak alot of sauces. Essentially everytime you use onions or wine or most vegetables, you are on some level, adding sugar to your dish. So, as the seasons change and products vary, don't feel like your cheating if you sneak a pinch of sugar in when noone's looking. They'll all thank you for it later when your sauce has that extra "something" that always makes yours taste better than when they try to make it.

[Mottmott]

I like to mix fresh & canned tomatoes for sauces.  No matter what brand you use there are always a few tricks to coax the best flavor out of them.  You definitely find people on both sides of the fence when it comes to adding sugar to tomato sauce but I have to say sugar is a secret ingredient in many chef's pantries.  If you read (& I suggest you do) Tom Valenti's "From My Kitchen" cookbook, he has a great passage about seeing another chef he respected (John Schenk) having sugar right next to the salt & pepper on his station and how happy he was to see he was not alone.  I use bar sugar since it dissolve instantly, in hot or cold to tweak alot of sauces.  Essentially everytime you use onions or wine or most vegetables, you are on some level, adding sugar to your dish.  So, as the seasons change and products vary, don't feel like your cheating if you sneak a pinch of sugar in when noone's looking.  They'll all thank you for it later when your sauce has that extra "something" that always makes yours taste better than when they try to make it.

My kitchen rule? "There are no rules."

I agree it's about balancing and/or emphasizing flavors and aromas. Taste, adjust, taste, adjust. If it needs sweet, add sweet. I also often sneak in a bit of lemon juice and/or peel while cooking or sprinkle some on before serving to give another dimension to the acidity of the tomatoes.

As for brand. I used to order the large cans of Badalucco tomatoes by the case from Claudio when they were packed in their own juices. Now they've changed the formula and begun packing them in puree. So I'm casting about for my "house" brand. (Claudio's says chefts prefer the tomatoes in the puree. Huumph.)

[Anna N]

... I use bar sugar since it dissolve instantly, in hot or cold to tweak alot of sauces.

Can you tell me what "bar" sugar is - I have never heard of it. Thanks.

[tim olivett]

Bar sugar is a slang term since bartenders use it for it's ability to instantly dissolve in cold liquids in place of simple syrup which many are too lazy to make (1 cup water to 1 cup sugar brought to a simmer). Simple syrup or bar sugar are the best to use for ice tea, mojitos etc. A great way to use up left over mint is to make a mint syrup for ice teas and drinks (take 2 or 3 stems of mint for every cup of sugar, simmer, let cool then strain out mint, it should keep for a couple of weeks in your fridge-makes nice lemonade too - or use ginger instead and mix into soda water for fresh ginger ale).

Bar sugar is usually sold in 1 lb boxes labelled superfine sugar. It is made from evaporated sugar can juice and milled extra fine (most sugar is actually made from sugar beets - the flavor different is small but worth it - my favorite is a Florida crystals brand of evaporated cane juice sugar that you can get at Whole Foods or Fresh Fields, the price is about the same and it is also milled a bit finer.

[marthapook]

So, as the seasons change and products vary, don't feel like your cheating if you sneak a pinch of sugar in when noone's looking.  They'll all thank you for it later when your sauce has that extra "something" that always makes yours taste better than when they try to make it.

Fresh, put up, canned or "pomi" - forget the sugar Tim - add a peeled carrot and let it simmer - like my mom and nonna do.

[Anna N]

Bar sugar is a slang term since bartenders use it for it's ability to instantly dissolve in cold liquids in place of simple syrup which many are too lazy to make (1 cup water to 1 cup sugar brought to a simmer).  Simple syrup or bar sugar are the best to use for ice tea, mojitos etc.  A great way to use up left over mint is to make a mint syrup for ice teas and drinks (take 2 or 3 stems of mint for every cup of sugar, simmer, let cool then strain out mint, it should keep for a couple of weeks in your fridge-makes nice lemonade too - or use ginger instead and mix into soda water for fresh ginger ale).

Bar sugar is usually sold in 1 lb boxes labelled superfine sugar.  It is made from evaporated sugar can juice and milled extra fine (most sugar is actually made from sugar beets - the flavor different is small but worth it - my favorite is a Florida crystals brand of evaporated cane juice sugar that you can get at Whole Foods or Fresh Fields, the price is about the same and it is also milled a bit finer.

Thanks! Now I get it. I was equating "bar" sugar with a chocolate "bar" and trying to imagine a slim bar of sugar! Thanks for the explanation and the additional ideas. I'm done slapping my forehead now.

[SG-]

Check out the "Nina" brand San Marzano tomatoes carried by Costco in those huge 108oz cans, a bargain for about $2!!

[albie]

About canned tomatoes: my personal favorites are the whole imported Italian plum tomatoes from brands like Cento, Gerardo di Nola and Luigi Vitelli; all are expensive -- $2 or more a can.

With all due respect, I think it's a travesty to sweeten tomato sauce with sugar when the addition of finely diced and sauteed onions and carrots, or even a mirepoix of onion, carrot and celery will do the job nicely. If a silken texture is what you seek, then blend the sauce.

[sammy]

Interesting, I was at the Harlem Fairway last week and noticed two different labels for the La Squisita brand of canned tomatoes. One said authentic San Marzano tomatoes, the other said either just italian tomatoes or italian style tomatoes. I'll check the can when I can home. The San Marzano tomatoes were priced higher.

I've been happy with the La Squisita brand in the past (my second favorite to del valle (spelling?)). Their tomato paste cannot be beat. Simply spread on bread with a little olive oil is great.

I plan on doing a taste test right out of the can next weekend.

[menton1]

Anybody in Philly ever tried Rosa brand San Marzano Tomatoes? Only available in the Philly area, I stock up when I go down...

[stephenc]

I just use Genaurdis store brand tomatoes for my sauce. No one can tell the difference.

[SG-]

I just use Genaurdis store brand tomatoes for my sauce.  No one can tell the difference.

give the san marzano variety a go, thought the same as you did until I tried it myself, swear by them now and I'm not even italian.

[flybottle]

The food mill is an underrated tool. Probably worthy of its very own thread.

Amen. I pass Hunts whole peeled tomatoes through it for sauce, but that's only because I can't find a regular supply of San Marzano's. I've been flirting with Progresso and I find Muir Glen too sweet for my taste. Pomi used to be (ten years ago now) my go to tomato when I was flush, but now I find it insipid.

[project]

Good grief, eG comes through again! Great to learn so much more about tomatoes for sauces!

My usual goals for tomato sauce are closer to FG's: I'm just trying to get something to eat!

Although have cooked tomato sauces for decades, didn't for a few months and then a few days ago rushed to make a pot of sauce for a fast meal. Since was in a big hurry, didn't measure -- right, now that I don't have careful measurements, I got one of my best batches of sauce ever!

One fast use of the sauce is to fix up some simple canned ravioli with some ground beef. For the ground beef, just did a new batch: Got about 7 pounds of 10% fat ground beef, fried to loose pieces in four batches, each batch with some virgin olive oil. Drained in a colander. Placed in two freezer bags, one gallon each. Chilled. Flexed. Froze. Will flex again and, thus, get loosely frozen cooked ground beef as a 'component'. Stuff keeps nearly forever: Last batch still worked and must have been over two years old!

For the fast tomato sauce, essentially what I did was:

1 large yellow globe onion, weight of onion before peeling about 1 pound

1/3 C minced garlic

1/2 C dry parsley flakes

2 T dry oregano leaves

2 T dry basil leaves

1 T dry rosemary leaves

black pepper

salt

1/3 C virgin olive oil

2 cans of Hunt's Crushed Tomatoes in Thick Tomato Puree, net weight 28 ounces a can

Quartered the onion (regard root end as south pole and made cuts through N-S axis) and peeled the quarters. For each quarter, made about 4 cuts parallel to N-S axis and then many cuts perpendicular to N-S axis to give rather finely cut pieces -- a lot of surface area.

On eating, concluded that the onion variety and quantity along with the particular cutting and cooking were especially important to the results.

In a 3 quart pot, added OO, heated, added onion, cooked with enough heat to evaporate loose water and, thus, 'saute' rather than just steam, cooked long enough to get some concentrated sugars from the onion, cooked short enough not to get any significant browning.

Added garlic, stirred, cooked for maybe 20 seconds -- made sure not to brown the garlic (by the way, the garlic did have some small shoots with green interior parts, and did use the shoots and green parts, before reading eG saying that these parts can be bitter).

Quickly added parsley, oregano, basil, rosemary, pepper, and salt, already measured, and tomatoes, cans already opened. Cooked to 180 F, chilled uncovered and then covered.

For a meal, in a 1 1/2 quart Pyrex glass casserole dish, I add

1 C loose frozen sauteed ground beef

1 C tomato sauce

1 can Chef Boyardee canned Beef Ravioli in Tomato and Meat Sauce, net weight 15 ounces a can

Add cover. Heat in microwave to about 180 F -- 50% power for 15 minutes, rotate, repeat.

Top with about 2 ounces of freshly grated dry Italian cheese, e.g.,

Argitoni Pecorino Romano cheese from Italy

That tomato sauce is one that can eat for supper and at bed time need a snack so can forget about the sauce and get to sleep!

So, with these canned tomatoes, for this sauce, just open the cans and pour -- no draining, chopping, reductions, or tomato paste.

[Carlovski]

For a meal, in a 1 1/2 quart Pyrex glass casserole dish, I add

1 C loose frozen sauteed ground beef

1 C tomato sauce

1 can Chef Boyardee canned Beef Ravioli in Tomato and Meat Sauce, net weight 15 ounces a can

Add cover. Heat in microwave to about 180 F -- 50% power for 15 minutes, rotate, repeat.

Top with about 2 ounces of freshly grated dry Italian cheese, e.g.,

Argitoni Pecorino Romano cheese from Italy

That tomato sauce is one that can eat for supper and at bed time need a snack so can forget about the sauce and get to sleep!

So, with these canned tomatoes, for this sauce, just open the cans and pour -- no draining, chopping, reductions, or tomato paste.

Er, I'm not normally one to question a person's recipe, but anyone else feel that it sounded fine until we got to the 'serving suggestion'?

[project]

Carlovski:

"Er, I'm not normally one to question a person's recipe, but anyone else feel that it sounded fine until we got to the 'serving suggestion'?"

Where's the "question"? The canned ravioli?

The intention is just a fast meal good as a combination of nutrition, preparation time, cost, and flavor, e.g., to improve on much of fast food. The intention is not something grand with a 20 year old Marcarini Barolo in a hotel next to Lake Como with another Daniela Bianchi!

The canned ravioli is simple and plain. Just as ravioli, there not much wrong with it. The ground beef is also plain; is just beef and VOO.

The tomato sauce is quite flavorful. So, the sauce provides enough flavor to spice up both the ravioli and the beef.

Also, this thread is awash in getting some really special tomatoes, and I just poured in two cans from Sam's Club. So, I got something more convenient, maybe a little less expensive, and put in enough other flavorings to provide a lot of flavor for the sauce and the whole dish.

If we were emphasizing fresh tomatoes, then, sure, would try to emphasize really fresh flavors. But in this thread, we are just backing down to convenient canned tomatoes.

Also, still with the theme of convenience and saving on cost, I used just dried parsley, basil, oregano, and rosemary. I've had to conclude that the dried versions of these herbs are much, much more convenient than the fresh versions.

The proportions I gave for a final dish are a little short on the ravioli -- so the dish comes out with comparatively a lot of ground beef and sauce. To get more of a ravioli dish, just cut the ground beef and tomato sauce back to 3/4 C.

With two ounces of the Pecorino Romano on top, tough to go too badly wrong!

For more "serving suggestions", maybe I'll boil some noodles, dump in ground beef and sauce, stir, heat, and top with the same cheese! Would that be better?

Would some Italian sausage be better than the ground beef?

But just for that ravioli dish, it's possible to do worse:

Another dish I've been doing lately, also just for fast meals, is a chicken noodle casserole. Did one last Friday, and got six quarts. Have given a first cut version elsewhere on eG. The thing borrows from the chicken pot pie filling in:

Jacques Pepin, 'Jacques Pepin's Complete Techniques', ISBN 1-57912-165-9, Black Dog & Leventhal Publishers, New York, 2001.

For one chicken of about 8 pounds, I have 1 quart of Chardonnay wine, plenty of garlic, parsley, thyme, onions, carrots, celery, mushrooms, white roux, milk, heavy cream, lemon juice. I include a stock made from chicken skin and bones, and more herbs and vegetables, from previous batch. There is a lot of reduction to concentrate flavors. For the last batch, I included 19 ounces of leeks. So, there is a lot of flavor from French chicken white sauce traditions.

Net, to me, that ravioli dish is better on all of nutrition, preparation time, flavor, and cost.

Once again I get shocked on how sometimes the Italian techniques do better than the French ones.

[JerzeeTomato]

Finally a topic I know something about. San Marzano tomatoes can only be called that if they are imported. Otherwise they are called italian or plum tomatoes. Muir Glen was picked best by Cooking Illustrated (subscriber since 1993) I myself being the food snob grow my own every year and can them. I usually buy some San Marzano seeds or plants if I can find them. I also buy some amish paste, roma and a few other plants and cross polinate them. Which means using a skewer I take some pollen from one and move it all around(very time consuming, well worth the trouble) I do NOT like Parmalat Pomi brand it tastes boiled and overprocessed it has no bite. Parmalat is the Enron of 2004 so look for the possible disappearance of that brand, if you like it start buying some extra.

Parmalat borrowed money based on doctored documents, huge banking scandal.

I only use plum tomatoes for sauce, they are meaty and make better sauce.

My favorite canned brand Cento when I can find it and Progesso when its on sale.

Tuttorosso a Shop Rite staple will do.