Opinions please -

[lemniscate]

Ok, I am not a food worrywort. I grew up on a farm and ate vegetables/fruits right off the vine without washing them first. I keep a relatively clean kitchen, not spotless. I believe in being exposed to bacteria sometimes can boost the immune system.

BUT, that being said....I buy bagged greens and have always rewashed them in a colander before consuming. In light of recent recalls, I don't think simple rinsing alone helps wash away e. coli. Now I am concerned with what's in that bag of romaine/leaf lettuce/spinach. So I got this email from Sharper Image promoting this product:

http://sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/product/sku__TS600

I have to honestly say I'm considering it, but I do have questions on how they know how 'santized" the food gets. I didn't see the usual microscopic before and after photos of creepy crawlies. So I have reservations about it of course. This could be the new "magnet therapy" scam of the early 2000's.

Anyway, what do you think? And how has your technique of washing fruits/veggies changed in the last few weeks?

[jsmeeker]

Ok, I am not a food worrywort.  I grew up on a farm and ate vegetables/fruits right off the vine without washing them first.  I keep a relatively clean kitchen, not spotless.  I believe in being exposed to bacteria sometimes can boost the immune system.

BUT, that being said....I buy bagged greens and have always rewashed them in a colander before consuming.  In light of recent recalls, I don't think simple rinsing alone helps wash away e. coli.  Now I am concerned with what's in that bag of romaine/leaf lettuce/spinach.  So I got this email from Sharper Image promoting this product:

http://sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/product/sku__TS600

I have to honestly say I'm considering it, but I do have questions on how they know how 'santized" the food gets.  I didn't see the usual microscopic before and after photos of creepy crawlies.  So I have reservations about it of course.  This could be the new "magnet therapy" scam of the early 2000's.

Anyway, what do you think?  And how has your technique of washing fruits/veggies changed in the last few weeks?

←

I'm no food scientist, but I think you are over worried with the whole spinach thing.. I've never washed already washed, bagged , ready to use greens (afterall, isn't that the whole point of using them??). I'll continue my practices. I'm not worried.

The world is full of bacteria and stuff. It's not all bad. In fact, the overuse of anti-bacterial agents can have negative effects.

Edited October 11, 2006 by jsmeeker (log)

[Toliver]

.... In light of recent recalls, I don't think simple rinsing alone helps wash away e. coli.  Now I am concerned with what's in that bag of romaine/leaf lettuce/spinach....

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You're correct in that a simple rinsing off of the recently recalled E. coli contaminated spinach wouldn't have worked. In this specific case, the water used to irrigate the spinach was contaminated. No amount of rinsing would have sanitized it.

Regarding the sanitizer you linked to, note that it wouldn't have been able to remove the E. coli either. The description states that it removes anything from the surface of the veggies. So you would have still been up the proverbial creek without a paddle if you owned this gadget.

As to whether you should buy the gadget, ask yourself if it would bring you peace of mind regarding the cleanliness of your fruits and veggies. Would you be better off with it, or without it? Only you can answer that question.

[Grub]

The system's patented Oxyshield process infuses ordinary tap water with ozone — a natural sanitizer with "super-oxygen" molecules of three oxygen atoms (O3) instead of two (O2). The unstable third atom is the sanitizing agent — oxidizing (i.e., killing) pathogens and neutralizing pesticides without any toxic chemicals at all; the only by-products are simple oxygen (O2) and water (H2O). Germs cannot mutate to become resistant to ozonated water; it gets them every time!

Mutating germs, super-oxygen, and pathogen-killin' -- oh my! If my chemestry classes had been this exciting, maybe I'd learned something. Sadly, they weren't, and I didn't -- hence, I have no idea what these guys are talking about here. Still, in spite of my ignorance of chemistry, it sounds like BS to me...

[lemniscate]

.... In light of recent recalls, I don't think simple rinsing alone helps wash away e. coli.  Now I am concerned with what's in that bag of romaine/leaf lettuce/spinach....

←

You're correct in that a simple rinsing off of the recently recalled E. coli contaminated spinach wouldn't have worked. In this specific case, the water used to irrigate the spinach was contaminated. No amount of rinsing would have sanitized it.

Regarding the sanitizer you linked to, note that it wouldn't have been able to remove the E. coli either. The description states that it removes anything from the surface of the veggies. So you would have still been up the proverbial creek without a paddle if you owned this gadget.

As to whether you should buy the gadget, ask yourself if it would bring you peace of mind regarding the cleanliness of your fruits and veggies. Would you be better off with it, or without it? Only you can answer that question.

←

That's a great point about surface contamination. So, was the e.coli internal to the leaves? I can't recall that ever being covered in the news reports. Was the spinach "juice" the carrier of the e.coli?

I've always rewashed my bagged greens because I've been surprised by grit in my teeth while eating supposedly triple washed product. I take the extra step of rinsing because I just don't trust that it's all gone.

Edited October 11, 2006 by lemniscate (log)

[Toliver]

That's a great point about surface contamination.  So, was the e.coli internal to the leaves?  I can't recall that ever being covered in the news reports.  Was the spinach "juice" the carrier of the e.coli?

I've always rewashed my bagged greens because I've been surprised by grit in my teeth while eating supposedly triple washed product.  I take the extra step of rinsing because I just don't trust that it's all gone.

←

Yes, in this specific case, the water used to irrigate the spinach was contaminated so the E. coli was inside the spinach.

I also always rewash my bagged greens. Guess I have trust issues.

[johnsmith45678]

Ozone-activated water is widely accepted as a safe and effective way to decontaminate all kinds of foods

Really? First I've heard of that.

I'd probably consider soaking greens in water with a bit of chlorine bleach before shelling out $200 for that. But I'll just keep rinsing my greens - bagged or otherwise.

[slo_ted]

Ozone is a powerful oxidizer and has been used to purify municipal water supplies in many cities, e.g. Paris. Seems like this thing should help, in principal. with surface contamination which is where most contamination should be. I don't understand how E. coli could infect the vascular system of the spinace. Seems like it would have to be taken up by the rootlets first and I'm not sure they would do that. Perhaps if there were wounds is the stem of the plant they could enter. I suspect they were on the surface which if rough enough world be difficult to completely clean by rinsing. Is there a botonist in the house?

[lemniscate]

It looks like the internal vs. surface contamination of the spinach is up for debate.

http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?...id=022000GR4RS2

bullet point:

It's unlikely whether FDA will ever know if the E. coli bacteria was on the surface of the tainted spinach or inside the greens themselves, because it was ground up for testing, Dr. David Acheson, chief medical officer in the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, told reporters Monday.

Hopefully they will amend their testing process so they can find out if the e.coli is cellular to the spinach or just lying on the surface.

[Hawthorne]

It looks like the internal vs. surface contamination of the spinach is up for debate.

http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?...id=022000GR4RS2

bullet point:

It's unlikely whether FDA will ever know if the E. coli bacteria was on the surface of the tainted spinach or inside the greens themselves, because it was ground up for testing, Dr. David Acheson, chief medical officer in the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, told reporters Monday.

Hopefully they will amend their testing process so they can find out if the e.coli is cellular to the spinach or just lying on the surface.

←

This eColi contamination of produce is becoming a pretty common thing. It doesn't appear that washing is a reliable way to eliminate the risk.

I'd say the best thing to do would be to make a real effort to find alternate local sources of produce, if at all possible.

I do realize that we have reached the stage where many people really don't have much in the way of choice as to food sources, but the risk is associated with agribiz corporate food production, not your local truck farm.

Boycott agribiz sources wherever possible. Whether the result is opening up new sources, or forcing agribiz to adopt more reliably clean production methods, either way it's a win.

As things stand, they get a free pass on this stuff because they have successfully squeezed out local production, and there are now enough people who no longer have enough choice that poor quality control doesn't hurt their business.

Surely we are entitled to clean food?

Without having to buy a $200 gadget to insure that?

I'm inclined to go with those who doubt its effectiveness in any case. I think it would create a false sense of security, and that the manufacturer is exploiting a situation that needs a real fix, not a gadget.

[Hawthorne]

It looks like the internal vs. surface contamination of the spinach is up for debate.

http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?...id=022000GR4RS2

bullet point:

It's unlikely whether FDA will ever know if the E. coli bacteria was on the surface of the tainted spinach or inside the greens themselves, because it was ground up for testing, Dr. David Acheson, chief medical officer in the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, told reporters Monday.

Hopefully they will amend their testing process so they can find out if the e.coli is cellular to the spinach or just lying on the surface.

←

I wouldn't count on a fix from the government, unless the public demands an effective control on *agribiz* production practises. Even then I'd be very wary.

If you read this article you will notice that it blythly cites the eColi outbreak in beef in '93, and talks about 'tightened controls' on the beef industry.

In fact, what they actually did was regulate the *cooking* of beef, demanding that all ground beef served commercially be cooked well done - as they have cautioned us always to hard boil our eggs to deal with salmonella contaminations.

In other words, the controls have NOT been applied to agribiz, and we need to beware any new regulations or laws which these incidents spawn, as the last couple of decades has shown that when such laws and regulations are proposed, a close look at them shows they target individuals and small producers, not the agribiz mega corporations which cause the problem.

We could, of course, boil all our spinach and lettuce henceforth ...

[lemniscate]

The "local vs. agribiz" differs in only the amount of population affected by the product. We were a smallish truck farm. We irrigated directly from a surface river, downstream from several dairy farms where the cows watered and walked directly in that river (and a couple smalls towns treated effluent water went into the river also). This was not an uncommon setup in southern Michigan. So the chances of introducing e. coli onto the produce was about equal as the "agribiz". If e.coli had been introduced, only a local population would have been affected. There are no controls on small producers that I am aware of either.

[coquus]

These things have been around for a while now. They are really interesting to me, but not for the use you mention, but for disinfecting surfaces. I forget what the other one is called, however it probably costs the same or more.

[Hawthorne]

The "local vs. agribiz" differs in only the amount of population affected by the product.  We were a smallish truck farm.  We irrigated directly from a surface river, downstream from several dairy farms where the cows watered and walked directly in that river (and a couple smalls towns treated effluent water went into the river also).  This was not an uncommon setup in southern Michigan.  So the chances of introducing e. coli onto the produce was about equal as the "agribiz".  If e.coli had been introduced, only a local population would have been affected.  There are no controls on small producers that I am aware of either.

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Are you still doing this? Did you actually run into the problem? How would you/do you control it?

If there *is* going to be a problem, it is easier to deal with if it is a local one, and doesn't affect half the country, don't you think?

The way things are going, if there is no control (and I think you are right about that at present, at least), there soon will be, but it is much more likely to affect small producers than the large ones. The large ones are in a position to negotiate loopholes, and do. Often controls involve expenses in the way of equipment and/or fees that are a much greater burden to the small producers than the large ones.

You don't think it's consumers or small packers who resist serious BSE testing, removal of all offal from cattle feeds and who are pushing support for NAIS, do you?

Agribiz figures what you don't know won't hurt them. And their near monopoly is becoming a problem to the food supply. Sometimes they do contract with small producers, of course, who are then forced to use their production methods. In some areas, there is enough choice for farmers to contract for this crop this year and something different next year, which is a help to the land, but there are still issues with chemicals. There is a fair amount of diversity around here, but that varies a lot from region to region, as nearly as I can tell.

Where I can find them, I go with independent producers. They need our support; our food supply needs them. At best their product is superior, as well as more reliable. At worst, the risks affect smaller areas.

I hope that now we are retired I will be able to go back to gardening and chickens. These options aren't available to everybody, though, and the bottom line is still that more competition offers better quality and more choices for everyone.