Do not eat that bagged spinach!

[Anna N]

There shouldn't be any connection between, on the one hand, the presence or absence of organic farming methods and, on the other hand, the presence or absence of E. coli in spinach. Especially if the E. coli comes from the irrigation water, it's likely that many of the farms -- whether or not they're organic -- in a given area (in this case apparently Salinas, CA) are using the same water supply.

. . .

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So why only spinach? Are there fields and fields of only spinach? And is the same irrigation water only irrigating spinach? Does no one grow lettuce etc.? Just wondering.

Yikes - I just checked my crisper and while I knew I did not buy spinach, I did buy one of the affected brands of baby greens and guess what - spinach is in there! We ate it last night and so far so good but it is now in the trash.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Anna N (log)

[weinoo]

Fortunately, I don't use this stuff, but why would you take something out of a bag or from a box (mesclun) for that matter w/o washing it before further cooking or eating (advertising aside - triple washed - right).

One of the many things that really ANNOYS me about certain food shows (rachael, are u listening?) is where the cook just opens the bag of greens right out of the fridge and dumps it into the salad bowl (that's a stomach ache waiting to happen) - oy.

I like to wash fruits/melons like cantaloupes, honeydews, etc. with soapy waterr - I seem to remember an e.coli thing with melons in california many years ago...once the knife penetrates the rind, the bacteria are transported to the fruit.

[Fat Guy]

Anna, I don't know the answer for sure, but my experience driving through California farm country is that, yes, in some areas there are indeed fields upon fields of only one thing growing at one particular time. I think they arrange it this way for various agricultural and labor reasons. However, we don't actually know that the problem was the irrigation water. It could also have been the water at a processing facility (from some of the articles, I gather that both organic and non-organic brands share the Earthbound processing facility). Or something else. The point being, none of this has anything to do with whether or not a farm is organic.

[Anna N]

Anna, I don't know the answer for sure, but my experience driving through California farm country is that, yes, in some areas there are indeed fields upon fields of only one thing growing at one particular time. I think they arrange it this way for various agricultural and labor reasons. However, we don't actually know that the problem was the irrigation water. It could also have been the water at a processing facility (from some of the articles, I gather that both organic and non-organic brands share the Earthbound processing facility). Or something else. The point being, none of this has anything to do with whether or not a farm is organic.

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Thanks - yeah I understood the part about the organic vs. non-organic - I just have my antenna up about it being only spinach.

[Pam R]

On a more serious side, I have not seen anything in the Canadian press to suggest that there is a problem in this country and yet we import a great deal of our fresh produce from the US.

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Heard it on CBC last night on my way home. Click. But no cases have been reported north of the 49th yet.

[Sugarella]

i was thinking about this too, and my suspicion is that because the bagged spinach is sometimes "triple washed", people don't wash it, and then consume it raw...whereas they will usually wash the non-bagged stuff.

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P.S.  One big potential problem with organic produce is the use of manure - especially since composting isn't an exact science.  I would rather eat produce that's "manure free" than produce that isn't - just like I'd rather eat produce from fields where the workers have access to porta-potties.

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There was an "outbreak" of e. coli from triple washed bagged lettuce in the US quite a few years ago that resulted in deaths as well. Sorry I can't find a link to any article.... I'm thinking it may have been before the web was so commonly in use...seems like an awfully long time ago.

And I use "outbreak" in quotes because common sense or a little knowledge could have prevented it.

The culprit at the time was both the use of organic manure (in that case it was unsterilized poultry manure applied directly to the plants) and the farm's misinterpretation of the "triple wash" guideline. (ie: washing 3 times in the same pool of water, rather than refreshing the water with each wash.)

Regardless, washing a leafy green 20 times won't remove e. coli because leafy greens are porous as opposed to other plants with a protective skin or waxy coating or a rind, so the bacteria is absorbed right into the leaf and stem.

The whole problem of e. coli outbreaks could be eradicated if 3 things were done. Firstly, don't use straight manure on food that hasn't been treated or thoroughly composted then tested, like is the case with manure used for mushrooms. Second, don't produce delicate produce and animals on the same farm IF there is the possibility that there can be cross-contamination with the irrigation water. Third, on-site bathrooms should be provided for farm workers so they don't have to go in the fields. Simple concept described 3 ways: don't put shit on your food.

I'm sure money, or a lack thereof, is the only reason these things have not been implemented everywhere. If it's cheaper to cut corners, people WILL do it.

[azlee]

I've been impressed with how many of the food retailers, that I use, have responded. In particular, Fresh Direct, which immediately credited my account for the Spinach and Blue Cheese Salad that was part of an order I had received earlier this week. Their recommendation was that the salad be discarded for safety's sake. I know that most of their bagged greens are sourced from Natural Selections under the Earthbound Farms label and I suspect that the majority of the fresh prepped private labeled salads that FD offers are made from, at least in part, Natural Selections bagged greens.

I must admit that I have always been in the habit of washing bagged greens, even those that are labeled pre-washed but the point that has been driven home for me is that if the contamination is in the water source, no amount of washing will make a difference. Back to the overcooked greens that grandma used to make, if hope to get my Iron w/o a side of E coli poisoning.

[robyn]

There shouldn't be any connection between, on the one hand, the presence or absence of organic farming methods and, on the other hand, the presence or absence of E. coli in spinach. Especially if the E. coli comes from the irrigation water, it's likely that many of the farms -- whether or not they're organic -- in a given area (in this case apparently Salinas, CA) are using the same water supply...

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The connection between organic produce and E. coli comes from the use of manure - as opposed to nitrogen based fertilizer (the latter is used a lot more in non-organic produce). Of course - since we don't know what happened here - we have no way of knowing whether manure has anything to do with the problem.

Can anyone explain to me why manure is a fertilizer of choice in organic produce? Robyn

[Fat Guy]

There was a major study in '04 that indicated that E. coli-infected manure fertilizer doesn't present any risk of E. coli in fresh produce.

To investigate the potential transfer of Escherichia coli O157:H7 from contaminated manure to fresh produce, lettuce seedlings were transplanted into soil fertilized with bovine manure which had been inoculated with approximately 104 CFU g–1 E. coli O157:H7. The lettuce was grown for approximately 50 days in beds in climate-controlled rooms in a greenhouse. As the bacterium was not detected in the edible parts of the lettuce, the outer leaves of the lettuce, or the lettuce roots at harvest it was concluded that transmission of E. coli O157:H7 from contaminated soil to lettuce did not occur. The pathogen persisted in the soil for at least 8 weeks after fertilizing but was not detected after 12 weeks.

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/5/2221

The more I hear about this case, the more it sounds like the contamination occurred at the washing/processing phase. I'll be interested to read the next round of news stories.

[Chris Amirault]

The culprit at the time was both the use of organic manure (in that case it was unsterilized poultry manure applied directly to the plants) and the farm's misinterpretation of the "triple wash" guideline. (ie: washing 3 times in the same pool of water, rather than refreshing the water with each wash.)

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I'm no farmer, but it strikes me that three times in a change of water is called "washing," and three times in the same water is called "marinating."

[Sugarella]

There was a major study in '04 that indicated that E. coli-infected manure fertilizer doesn't present any risk of E. coli in fresh produce..... The more I hear about this case, the more it sounds like the contamination occurred at the washing/processing phase.

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Agreed. However, if there was e.coli on the leaves and those were placed in a pool of water for washing, the e.coli would then be in the wash water. The cut stems would of course then absorb that water as any cut plant will do, thus infecting the spinach from the inside out. Washing doesn't do anything except remove big chunks of dirt.

As I said earlier this problem could be eradicated if the whole process was more efficient and those responsible for ensuring it's done properly were thoroughly educated with regard to food safety and contamination. But I suspect this outbreak will eventually be glossed over as well. As someone said above, only ONE person died.

[docsconz]

I think discarding the spinach is definitely the way to go. Although cooking it may very well destroy whatever E. coli is in the spinach at the time it hits pasteurization temperature, there are also handling concerns. For example, if you take the spinach out of the bag with your hands, you can get E. coli on your hands. Then, whatever else you handle in the kitchen is at risk, or you may transmit it hand to mouth. Likewise, you may use a spoon or other utensil on the spinach before it has reached pasteurization temperature, and then you may use that spoon in something else.

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This is a very good point that I hadn't considered before. It should also be disseminated as a major rationale for just throwing the bags away. Without this rationale though, the instruction gives the false impression, IMO, that under no circumstances would cooked spinach be safe to eat if it has been contaminated. That is simply inaccurate. FG's eplanation makes a lot of sense, however, as to why someone should not attempt to cook the stuff.

[Pontormo]

I don't know if all NPR listeners are getting the same short message during the At the Top of the Hour briefings, but the stations seem to be raising a bit of a ridiculous alarm. They're not saying "Do not eat bagged spinach..." or "Do not eat spinach from California..." in case there are problems at other locations.

They're saying "Do Not eat spinach."

No one ever said "Do not eat beef" (except Oprah, perhaps) when there were e-coli problems with hamburger chains. Meat gets recalled more frequently than vegetables, no?

[Daniel]

I have been saying this for years.. People stay away from vegetables.. Who knows what they put in that stuff..

[mrsadm]

Big decision here -- do I eat healthy food, and possibly succumb rather quickly to multi-organ failure, or eat crap and possibly die a slow painful atherosclerotic death in 30 years...

They pulled the spinach in Walmart and Dillons stores today, and are urging people who bought bagged spinach to return it for a refund. The funny thing is, they always call a recall long after most people have already consumed the product in question.

And after all, only one person's actually DIED from eating tainted spinach...one person died in that other thread from eating marshmallows, and I don't see them recalling THEM...

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I know your point is serious but I have a friend who is known by many for his love of sweets and will even order a desert instead of an appetizer when going out to dinner. He was always fond of saying, no one ever died from a donut.

[deltadoc]

Thursday night in Rochester, MN my wife and I both had a spinach salad with a side cup of lukewarm bacon dressing.

The next morning I felt just the slightest bit nauseas but didn't hurl. I did however have diarhea 5-7 times in less than 1 hour. That was Friday, and I feel fine today.

However, my wife, who has a slower metabolism than I woke up Saturday about 2-3am and hurled three times in a row, and had diarhea twice. Now she feels fine.

Shes going back to Mayo tomorrow anyway, so she can ask her gastroenterologist. But how does one know if it really was the spinach? I confirmed with the restaurant manager by email that the spinach they served was from River Ranch which is on the list of recalls.

Does E Coli go away that quickly? How do I know if I am going to suffer kidney damage or something?

doc (how I wish I really was an MD now!)

[Pontormo]

Just got back from the major farmer's market in Washington, D.C. that specializes in local (and primarily organic) foods.

There's one farmer known as The Greens Lady by regulars. Her stall has a series of galvanized steel buckets filled to the brim with gorgeous stir-fry greens, mesclun, baby arugula, purslane, etc., etc. Beets, herbs and edible flowers line up in a row at the feet so to speak of the bins. You point out what you want, whether half or a full pound and then go on your way.

Sure enough, there was no spinach.

Cinda told me she actually brought it to the area market where she sells on Saturdays, but people were too scared to buy, so she didn't even bother today.

Are people afraid of mutant spinach? Bio-terrorism? Something that happened to all spinach throughout the United States alone simultaneously and not to the iceberg lettuce or arugula?

Better throw away the stuff you're growing in your garden in the back, too. Just in case.

[robyn]

Thursday night in Rochester, MN my wife and I both had a spinach salad with a side cup of lukewarm bacon dressing.

The next morning I felt just the slightest bit nauseas but didn't hurl.  I did however have  diarhea 5-7 times in less than 1 hour.  That was Friday, and I feel fine today.

However, my wife, who has a slower metabolism than I woke up Saturday about 2-3am and hurled three times in a row, and had diarhea twice.  Now she feels fine.

Shes going back to Mayo tomorrow anyway, so she can ask her gastroenterologist.  But how does one know if it really was the spinach?  I confirmed with the restaurant manager by email that the spinach they served was from River Ranch which is on the list of recalls.

Does E Coli go away that quickly?  How do I know if I am going to suffer kidney damage or something?

doc (how I wish I really was an MD now!)

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The doctor can do a stool test to determine if you have an E. coli infection - but he won't be able to determine the source if you have the infection. The way the CDC wound up concluding that spinach was the culprit here was by comparing case histories of the people who got sick (i.e., what they had to eat before they got sick). The common denominator in all of the cases was spinach. Robyn

[tammylc]

I had Earthbound Farm spinach on Wednesday and Thursday nights of this week, and late Thursday night was up for several hours vomitting. But by the end of the day on Friday I was fine. And many many other people ate spinach from those same bags, and to the best of my knowledge no one else got sick. So I'm assuming my little bout of tummy upset was a total coincidence!

[scubadoo97]

Better throw away the stuff you're growing in your garden in the back, too. Just in case

This highlights the absurdity of how people react to these situations.

[Mallet]

From CBC this morning:

Supermarkets across the U.S. have pulled spinach from shelves, and consumers have tossed out the leafy green.

Meanwhile, California-based Natural Selection Foods said health inspectors have confirmed its organic spinach was not contaminated. It said officials traced the company's manufacturing codes from packages of spinach that had infected patients and found the codes came from non-organic spinach.

Natural Selection, the world's largest producer of organic produce, packages both organic and conventionally grown spinach in separate areas.

story here

[H. du Bois]

Interestingly, a midtown Manhattan salad bar I frequent had only one kind of green today: romaine. Nothing that could even remotely be construed as a dark green leafy vegetable, including mesclun (which didn't have any baby spinach in it to begin with). I'm really curious as to when things will calm down, and I'll be able to buy a variety of greens again.

[chardgirl]

Spinach, Baby Greens! It's in the processing folks. Mr. Chardgirl has been farming for 3 decades, at least one of them in the earlier days of the spring mix/baby greens time. He just tonight wrote an article for our newsletters about it:

Spinach Opinions from a CA organic farmer

cg

[Milagai]

Spinach, Baby Greens! It's in the processing folks. Mr. Chardgirl has been farming for 3 decades, at least one of them in the earlier days of the spring mix/baby greens time. He just tonight wrote an article for our newsletters about it:

Spinach Opinions from a CA organic farmer

cg

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Thanks Chardgirl and Mr Chardgirl for that article!

I admit to being a fan of the prebagged greens, though

I always have washed them b4 use.

But I'll see them in a new light from now....

Milagai

[H. du Bois]

That's the first sensible (and illuminating) article I've read since the whole thing began. Please thank your husband for me, and thank you, too, for posting it.

You know, when I took high school biology, they were always quite clear about how dark, damp anaerobic environments were the ideal breeding grounds for bacteria ...