Problem with burgers

[degustazione]

first off i apologize for this being confusing or long winded

here is the situation i have, hope someone can shine some light on it. i've tapped all my resources and still have nothing.

Problem: well done burger reading 175 temp is pink througout with charred outside, it shows all the characteristics of a well done burger but the colour. customers wont be too happy to see that in my eyes so i need a solution.

general recipe of above burger

80/20 ground chuck burger seasoned with salt, pepper, cooked onions and garlic, cumin, ground cloves and fennel seed and orange zest. mixed well and cooked.

i have cooked the following to 175 and all have come out looking as a well done burger should

ground beef from original source salt and pepper portioned and cooked

ground beef from original source seasoned as above minus the onions cooked right away

ground beef from original source seasoned as above minus the onions left to rest overnight and cooked

ground beef from a second source prepared in the same manner as above three.

can anyone explain why the first batch is still bright pink all throughout? do onions contain nitrates i am not aware of that is preserving the colour of the burger? i am stumped and need some help thanks in advance

[johnsmith45678]

Got pictures?

[Joe Blowe]

What kind of thermometer are you using? How are you taking your readings? Are you removing the meat from the heat source before taking a reading?

Also, what about lowering the temp of your heat source and cooking the burger longer? Have you tried your recipe without the more "exotic" ingredients, and adding them back in one by one?

Edited August 15, 2006 by Joe Blowe (log)

[ChefCrash]

According to this paper, onions do contain nitrates.

Why not try dehydrated or granulated onions.

[ChefCrash]

I have mixed raw onions in burgers before and never had this problem. Yours are cooked before you mix in the burger. Could that have anything to do with it? Have you tried a different kind of onion?

[alanamoana]

could salt have anything to do with it? since you're mixing salt into the burger instead of salting the outside only?

i've had the experience of using heavily seasoned potsticker filling and after cooking for a sufficient amount of time, the pork was still pink.

[degustazione]

thanks for the replies, my concern is with the ingredients not the actual cooking because the "normal" burgers are coming out fine. as for taking temps i have used 3 different kinds and all come up within a degree or two of each other, so thats not the problem. i am going to try some new recipes with raw onions, dehydrated, salt only on the outside and see what happens. my camera is on the fritz so no pictures right now but hopefully it all works out.

thanks again

[scott123]

Here's my theory. By adding cooked onions, you're adding water. Water + protein (as witnessed in stirred custards) = higher temperature for coagulation/full protein denaturation.

Just a theory

Also, this could be just me, but I find raw onions on a burger wonderful or cooked onions in a burger (or meatloaf) magnificent, but raw onions in a burger that end up partially cooked... not my bag. A raw onion has a wonderful crispness and a freshness and a cooked onion a sweetness/depth flavor. But a partially cooked onion...

[deltadoc]

This may be a large leap but here goes: The first batch of hamburger stayed red in the center? When you say "original source" are you meaning that you purchased a large package of hamburger?

If the first batch of hamburger (that stayed red) was mainly from the outside layer of a large package of hamburger, it may have been treated with nitrites to keep it red and fresh looking in the supermarket/meat market meat case.

If so, the nitrites may have kept the meat red on the inside.

doc

[degustazione]

after many more burgers i am under the impression that the onions were the reason for the red center in the burgers. all the batches that i made with onions held their colour at higher temperatures than those with out. i think i am going to nix the onions in the burger which i think is a shame because it gave them a nice amount of moisture but i cant deal with the complaints.

thanks again everyone for the input

[chiantiglace]

I dont have this problem when I make meatballs.

[Jason Perlow]

Caramelize the onions first before putting it into the burger mix. It works. Cooked until translucent isnt enough. Oh yeah, use bacon fat.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[monavano]

Caramelize the onions first before putting it into the burger mix. It works. Cooked until translucent isnt enough. Oh yeah, use bacon fat.

←

I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds like it makes sense to me. And, please everyone, don't throw tomatoes my way for suggesting that Rachael Ray (I apologize) grates raw onion into her burgers and she stands by it saying that it does the trick for a moist burger.

*exits quickly*

[cognitivefun]

the trick for a moist burger is a panade. Use milk and a bit of white bread, or milk and panko crumbs. You don't need much, then mix with the hamburger meat. I also add a little minced garlic and a bit of worcestershire sauce.

These burgers are the *best*. They are moist even when well done. Thanks Cooks Illustrated for giving me this idea. I never make burgers any other way anymore.

[Kouign Aman]

One way to make meat brown is to let it oxidize (thats what happens to the outside of raw meat). Onions contain sulfer-compounds which can act as anti-oxidants. I wonder if that is why the meat stayed red.

[Jason Perlow]

the trick for a moist burger is a panade. Use milk and a bit of white bread, or milk and panko crumbs. You don't need much, then mix with the hamburger meat. I also add a little minced garlic and a bit of worcestershire sauce.

That's not a burger. That's a meatloaf.

The best way to get a moist burger is NOT TO USE LEAN GROUND BEEF. If you are buying 85 percent lean ground beef then you want to put MORE fat into your burger mix. Rendered bacon fat is good for this. You want to use chuck and not sirloin if possible.

[michael_g]

I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds like it makes sense to me. And, please everyone, don't throw tomatoes my way for suggesting that Rachael Ray (I apologize) grates raw onion into her burgers and she stands by it saying that it does the trick for a moist burger.

*exits quickly*

←

I've seen a similar thing done for (Turkish/Arabic-style flat) kebab. Great kebab, very moist. It didn't have the semi-crunchy half-cooked onion feel in it, either.

[cognitivefun]

the trick for a moist burger is a panade. Use milk and a bit of white bread, or milk and panko crumbs. You don't need much, then mix with the hamburger meat. I also add a little minced garlic and a bit of worcestershire sauce.

That's not a burger. That's a meatloaf.

No, it's not. A panade is a paste. A meatloaf uses a filler such as *dry* bread crumbs, oats, etc.

This makes the best, most moist burgers. Anyone I have cooked them for has agreed. They can even be well done and come out very good.

[Grub]

While I certainly agree that low-fat beef isn't the way to go, I've found that the best way to ensure that a burger stays moist, even if cooked beyond medium rare, is findely chopped, caramelized onions... Raw, grated onions works too, but cooking the onions adds lots of flavor to it also...

[scott123]

No, it's not. A panade is a paste. A meatloaf uses a filler such as *dry* bread crumbs, oats, etc.

←

*dry* bread crumbs + eggs (found in all recipes) + milk (found in most recipes) = a paste.

P.S. Not that there's anything wrong with a meatloaf burger. If given the choice between a grilled meatloaf burger and a pure meat one, I'd take the meatloaf burger any time (as long as the onions are pre-cooked- have I mentioned how much I hate partially cooked onions? )

Edited August 20, 2006 by scott123 (log)

[Betts]

The CI burgers with panade are the most palatable burgers I've ever had and they even reheated well the next day.

I think that meatloaf usually has a greater percentage of panade ( or whatever) than the CI recipe.