Why Use fondant?

[Mayhaw Man]

Read the OP's signature.  And check out this thread.

I like cake. I like cake more than pie. Questions?

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I believe that it's important to take a firm, clear stand on the things that are important in this world. No need to mince words. Just consider the issue from a well informed point of view, weigh it out, and proudly let your choice be known

I don't need no stinking public opinion. I like cake.

[etalanian]

don't forget the vanilla ice-cream with that apple pie!  and i agree about using lard, i get mine fresh from a little deli down the street. makes the best crust.

If I could get fresh lard around here, I would definitely use it in my pies. You are so lucky.

Back on thread: I like cake, but without fondant. So there!

(You are a real trouble-maker, Mayhaw Man!)

Eileen

[Mayhaw Man]

If I could get fresh lard around here, I would definitely use it in my pies. You are so lucky.

(You are a real trouble-maker, Mayhaw Man!)

Eileen

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Make some. You'll be glad you did.

Ever had an egg fried in lard? You'll never go back.

Trouble maker? Well, Ok, but, really, I see myself more as a moral compass trying to guide the lost souls in this world to a land where pie is something to be enjoyed occasionally and cake, delicious cake, is something that will sit on the altar to be worshipped and studied-and then happily consumed at the end of the service.

[RuthWells]

It was designed and executed by Bob Bennet of Miel Patisserie,

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Unfortunately for us Philadelphians, Chef Bennet is *formerly* of Miel Patisserie.

Edited to try to stay marginally on topic -- I'm not crazy about fondant covered cakes from a taste perspective, but I actually like the judicious use of fondant appliques over true buttercream. It adds another flavor and texture note that I enjoy.

Edited June 29, 2006 by RuthWells (log)

[RodneyCk]

Silence of the Wedding Cake

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I was wondering if anyone would get that reference. Actually, to stay on topic, I should have said;

"It puts the buttercream on the cake.....OR IT GETS THE FONDANT!!!"

[chromedome]

Y'know what? Icing is just the airseal on a cake, to protect it until it's eaten. It's packaging. That's it, that's all.

I've had pretty much every kind of icing you can imagine, and I don't like any of them. Not just commercial (ugh!) icings and fondants, either. One advantage of going to cooking school is that you get to taste them all when made from scratch. I still don't like 'em. As and when I put something on a cake for home consumption, it's basically only ever going to be ganache (for special occasions) or whipped cream. Whipped cream, after overnight refrigeration, sets up into a nicely thick coating which keeps the cake moist. And how can you not like whipped cream on cake?

Having said that, though, I'm a professional and I sell product. Icing is the packaging for the specific product called "cake," and packaging - on any product - is targeted at the desired audience. Give the people what they want (or at least what they think they want) and you can't go very far wrong.

[chefpeon]

I originally wasn't going to say much about this topic because a lot of various points have already been made.

But, from my point of view as a professional cake designer, I consider fondant only a medium. Just like an artist has oils, pastels, canvas, fabric, paint, stone, etc.......I have my fondant, chocolate, buttercream, marzipan, etc.

When I consult with a client, not only do I provide samples of cake, but I also have little samples of things like fondant, marzipan, modeling chocolate.....gumpaste.....anything that is edible. I use a flower cutter to cut out the little samples, so they'll look cute. I also provide tiny spoons for them to taste ganache and the like.

I always ask the client what is important to them. Or rather, MORE important. Are they all about the taste? Or is it going to be this big showy grand centerpiece? I explain the pros and cons of the different mediums and let them decide. Sometimes a bride will come to me with a picture from a magazine and say "I want that". I will say ''Ok, but this design requires that I cover the cake with fondant." Then I will give her a sample of the fondant. She will be so turned off by the taste of the fondant, she abandons her original idea altogether, and I help her come up with a design she likes the looks of as well as the taste of. If you take the time to educate your clients, you will have much less headaches later.

Personally, I don't think fondant tastes THAT bad, but it's not my favorite. But I will grant that some BRANDS of fondant are beyond horrible. I've always liked using Pettinice myself.

And <gasp>, some people actually LOVE fondant! So there you go.

One time I had a family consult with me, and they were from the South. When I showed them my cake books and explained some current trends to them, they were HORRIFIED to learn that people were actually putting FRESH FLOWERS on cakes. It actually grossed them out! For them, it was icing flowers or NOTHING. Diff'rent strokes you know.

When you're in the specialty cake business, and you need to make a cake look a certain way, sometimes fondant is a must. As long as my clients KNOW what they're getting, and I make sure they do, there's really not a whole lot to fuss about.

I think debating about using fondant, is like discussing whether or not Van Gogh was a great artist. Some will say he was brilliant, and some will say he was an overrated depressed one-eared worthless painter. Ahem.

This thread has the distinct possibility of going on forever.

[RuthWells]

Silence of the Wedding Cake

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I was wondering if anyone would get that reference. Actually, to stay on topic, I should have said;

"It puts the buttercream on the cake.....OR IT GETS THE FONDANT!!!"

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THANK you -- NOW I get it!!

[etalanian]

Ever had an egg fried in lard? You'll never go back.

I grew up in Indiana, where a fried egg was ALWAYS fried in bacon fat. So, no, I haven't had one fried in lard, but why would I when frying one in bacon fat is so exquisitely delicious?

Unfortunately for us Philadelphians, Chef Bennet is *formerly* of Miel Patisserie.

Yes, we all miss him, but when he did the cake, he was still running Miel.

When I consult with a client, not only do I provide samples of cake, but I also have little samples of things like fondant, marzipan, modeling chocolate.....gumpaste.....anything that is edible. I use a flower cutter to cut out the little samples, so they'll look cute. I also provide tiny spoons for them to taste ganache and the like.

I always ask the client what is important to them. Or rather, MORE important. Are they all about the taste? Or is it going to be this big showy grand centerpiece? I explain the pros and cons of the different mediums and let them decide. Sometimes a bride will come to me with a picture from a magazine and say "I want that". I will say ''Ok, but this design requires that I cover the cake with fondant." Then I will give her a sample of the fondant. She will be so turned off by the taste of the fondant, she abandons her original idea altogether, and I help her come up with a design she likes the looks of as well as the taste of. If you take the time to educate your clients, you will have much less headaches later.

That is a most professional way to do it. I don't think a lot of brides or their moms understand how those cakes get perfectly smooth, and what fondant tastes (and chews) like.

This thread has the distinct possibility of going on forever.

Yes, and it sure is fun!

Eileen

[RodneyCk]

I grew up in Indiana, where a fried egg was ALWAYS fried in bacon fat. So, no, I haven't had one fried in lard, but why would I when frying one in bacon fat is so exquisitely delicious?

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I grew up in Indiana as well, and my grandmother use to fry up the bacon, and then use the fat to fry the eggs. They are to this day, the best eggs I have ever tasted. Many people are grossed out by this. They just have not tried it.

A friend of mine uses it in his pastry crust. Best crust I have ever tasted. It is also, I believe, the secret ingredient in Jiffy pie crust, another Indiana favorite. I make my own crusts, but my grandmother use to use Jiffy doctored up with more shortening or lard. She made the best pies.

She also used it to fry chicken, again, the best chicken ever.

I miss her jars of bacon fat sitting on the kitchen counter. I always knew something good would come of it.

Edited June 30, 2006 by RodneyCk (log)

[K8memphis]

RODNEY, ELAINE!!!

That's it!!! That's it!!!

Leave it to fellow Hoosiers to solve the dilema of the ages!!!

Fondant needs bacon grease!!!

[RodneyCk]

RODNEY, ELAINE!!!

That's it!!! That's it!!!

Leave it to fellow Hoosiers to solve the dilema of the ages!!!

Fondant needs bacon grease!!! 

 

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LOL...nope. Not even bacon grease can save fondant.

[etalanian]

And lest we be fooled by that fondant-using decorator...I went to grade school with K8Memphis in Indiana (sorry for outing you, Kathy Dear).

Ah, it now becomes clear why she would make such a worthy suggestion for the improvement of fondant.

I say put bacon fat in everything .

Eileen

edited by me to correct a typo.

Edited June 30, 2006 by etalanian (log)

[Tippy]

I just don't know.

I've used fondant a number of times - but never without some disappointment.

sure, Wilton's is by far the worst - but even FondX and Pettinice aren't wonderful.

There is no escaping the 'chewy' texture - but it makes a beautiful cake.

The wedding cake I just made was covered in it - but after the bride and groom took the first piece - the largest layer was taken, stripped of the fondant and a layer of buttercream was put on.

Best of both worlds and (in my opinion) more cake decorators should offer this service.

[Kris]

...The wedding cake I just made was covered in it - but after the bride and groom took the first piece - the largest layer was taken, stripped of the fondant and a layer of buttercream was put on. 

Best of both worlds and (in my opinion) more cake decorators should offer this service.

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But didn't you put a layer of buttercream under the fondant already? I don't see why they should have had to apply a fresh new coat of it.

[chefpeon]

The wedding cake I just made was covered in it - but after the bride and groom took the first piece - the largest layer was taken, stripped of the fondant and a layer of buttercream was put on.

Best of both worlds and (in my opinion) more cake decorators should offer this service.

Holy freakin' moley!!!!!

I echo Kris.......most cakes have a layer of buttercream already under the fondant. The buttercream is needed to create a smooth surface on which to lay the fondant, since fondant really can pick up surface imperfections in the cake. Not only that, but if you are laying white fondant on a chocolate cake you really need the buttercream or the cake will show through.

I can't imagine delivering a wedding cake (it must be on the table before the reception begins), and then standing around and waiting for cake cutting time (usually about an hour into the reception), and then re-icing the whole thing I just got done decorating. Crazy. That's too crazy.

Cake people have WAY too much to do to offer that kind of service. ESPECIALLY during wedding season!!!!

[McDuff]

I just don't know.

I've used fondant a number of times - but never without some disappointment.

sure, Wilton's is by far the worst - but even FondX and Pettinice aren't wonderful.

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It isn't very hard to make.

[JeanneCake]

In my sleep-deprived haze, I have a vague memory of a Food Network show where they were at Disney for a bunch of weddings and there was a behind-the scenes shot of a chef peeling the fondant off of a cake tier before it was cut and plated. I remember thinking "I can't believe he got that off in one piece!" and from the brief glimpse of the stripped cake, it didn't look like it lost any buttercream under the fondant. Does anyone else remember this or am I hallucinating? Again.

[RodneyCk]

In my sleep-deprived haze, I have a vague memory of a Food Network show where they were at Disney for a bunch of weddings and there was a behind-the scenes shot of a chef peeling the fondant off of a cake tier before it was cut and plated.  I remember thinking "I can't believe he got that off in one piece!" and from the brief glimpse of the stripped cake, it didn't look like it lost any buttercream under the fondant.  Does anyone else remember this or am I hallucinating?  Again.

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I actually did not see this, but someone told me about it. Yes, indeed they did strip the fondant off the cake before serving. I would imagine it was a crusting buttercream which is why it stayed on the cake. This probably means an American powdered sugar frosting, emphasis on the powdered sugar to get it to crust. Yuck! It's like fondant on fondant.

[SweetSide]

In my sleep-deprived haze, I have a vague memory of a Food Network show where they were at Disney for a bunch of weddings and there was a behind-the scenes shot of a chef peeling the fondant off of a cake tier before it was cut and plated.  I remember thinking "I can't believe he got that off in one piece!" and from the brief glimpse of the stripped cake, it didn't look like it lost any buttercream under the fondant.  Does anyone else remember this or am I hallucinating?  Again.

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I actually did not see this, but someone told me about it. Yes, indeed they did strip the fondant off the cake before serving. I would imagine it was a crusting buttercream which is why it stayed on the cake. This probably means an American powdered sugar frosting, emphasis on the powdered sugar to get it to crust. Yuck! It's like fondant on fondant.

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Not sure about that myself -- I made a fondant covered cake and under it was IMBC. Cake was chilled down and the fondant peeled right off leaving most of the buttercream underneath. A thin layer (film) was stuck to the fondant. Shame I lost that layer...

'Nuther debate, but I don't do that crusting stuff either... Who wants a crusty cake?!

[Lkfarkas]

I'm pretty sure it was K8 whom I quote, "Doritos crunch...cake shouldn't". I saw that Disney special & hate that many of my brides did too. They all think that fondant is inedible (as many of you do too, apparently!), but have never tried it, thanks to that stupid show. As far as I know, silver lustre dust is "outlawed" (er, whatever) in California for food consumption. There were about 10 million Mickey Mouse heads stamped on that cake - so that was my thinking on why they peeled off the fondant....but I could be wrong.

[K8memphis]

I like powdered sugar and I like powdered sugar icing. I like powdered sugar glazes for stuff. It's pretty on baked goods. It's good stuff. It's sweet like ahh, icing. My recipe for American buttercream made with powdered sugar, cream and butter is very good. Some people like to eat it. Not all people of course. Powdered sugar is a nice ingredient. It's ok. It's an ingredient. It has no social skill or value. Of course, let me hasten hasten to disclaim that American buttercream is not 'real' buttercream. Why you ask? Because, silly, you need hot eggs to make 'real' butter-cream.

So shoot me for liking and using and supporting the cause for UnReal Buttercream.

Edited July 1, 2006 by K8memphis (log)

[Lkfarkas]

*Gasp* ~Coming out from under the table~ I like powdered sugar too. *Sigh* I even like powdered sugar "buttercream". Granted, I like "real" buttercream too...but....each has it's place, for me...

[Sugarella]

In my sleep-deprived haze, I have a vague memory of a Food Network show where they were at Disney for a bunch of weddings and there was a behind-the scenes shot of a chef peeling the fondant off of a cake tier before it was cut and plated.  I remember thinking "I can't believe he got that off in one piece!" and from the brief glimpse of the stripped cake, it didn't look like it lost any buttercream under the fondant.  Does anyone else remember this or am I hallucinating?  Again.

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I remember a very detailed description of that episode from someone else back when we were having the lustre dust debates.... they used non-foodsafe silver on that particular cake and that's why they had to peel the fondant off.

[K8memphis]

...I saw that Disney special & hate that many of my brides did too. They all think that fondant is inedible (as many of you do too, apparently!), but have never tried it, thanks to that stupid show. As far as I know, silver lustre dust is "outlawed" (er, whatever) in California for food consumption. There were about 10 million Mickey Mouse heads stamped on that cake - so that was my thinking on why they peeled off the fondant....but I could be wrong.

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Yeah, that Disney show didn't help anything. And Wilton should be shot for the disservice they are doing to truly damage perceptions concerning fondant--making it taste like it was toxic waste. It's candy. Umm, but Wilton is truly effing things up. Idiots.