Time to let the cat out of the bag

[JasonZ]

Used to live 2 blocks from Hymie's/Murray's ... and would still go to Famous Fourth if I wanted Jewish style deli in PHL. None of them will hold a candle to Carnegie Deli in NYC or Katz's, if you want kosher rather than "kosher style" and remember "When Harry Met Sally" ....

Agree that PHL's fame comes from cheesesteak, but the taste for pan-Asian defines the current food scene, even in the "older" restaurants -- you might want to look at the Foos, for example: Susanna, with her nationally known fusion cuisine, and sister-in-law Betty (Hunan, Ardmore), with authentic, home-style Hunan cuisine -- both very different, but excellent in their own way.

With German food gone, you might want to look at Colonial cuisine, still served here authentically (the menu and the building) at the Second St Tavern ... and also at East Coast seafood (Bookbinders, Sansom Street Oyster House, and the newly revived Striped Bass, with Chris Lee, an up and coming star).

Might want to consider Irish ... and go to Ambler and Shanackie Pub and Inn, for Brian Duffy's traditional and new Celtic cuisine and live music 4 nights a week ...

... and yes, if you head out to Lancaster County, you can go the Amish route ... but now we're not in PHL anymore ...

These may define Philly better than dim sum and deli ...

Regards,

Jason

Edited June 28, 2006 by JasonZ (log)

[philadining]

....the "on a bun" theme is begining to build up...

←

careful, you don't want to give yourself away as a tourist (I don't think the camera crew will draw any suspicion... ) watch the terminology: I'm thinking back to the local lingo I hear around Philly and I don't think we don't put our meats on buns around here, I think we use rolls!

I could be wrong about this, but discussing "buns" for cheesesteaks or hoagies just doesn't sound right.

I've got a friend who grew up here who occasionally proposes getting "coffee and a bun" rather than a full breakfast, and it's always seemed like an odd phrase. I've always taken his use of "bun" to mean something like a cinnamon bun, or some sort of sweet thing like that, not a simple bread roll.

The precise definitions and distinctions are still a little hazy, at least to me, but I suspect that if you ask a cheesesteak guy "who bakes your buns?" you're going to get smacked with a greasy spatula.

But, yes, we've got some rocking good stuff served on great rolls around here...

[KatieLoeb]

Koch's Deli rocks. They've fed and cared for generations of college students from Penn, Drexel, Temple, College of Pharmacy, etc. and there's nothing like the place anywhere else I've ever been. It's true, it's not the same since Bobby passed (may he RIP ), but tLarry and staff are doing a great job keeping the place running and are still handing out samples and telling lousy jokes while you wait on line.

HERE'S the beginning of the thread from when Bobby passed away. Some photos and a look at the menu board.

[Chris Cognac]

OK...Rolls it is....I must admit, some of the places out here get the rolls shipped from Philly and they are amazing....they hold in the grease and cheese nicely...Man I am really looking forward to making this trip.....Philly is gonna be the first shoot (after the Vegas pilot) and I have wanted to make the cheesesteak haj so much....its gonna be awesome and I know Holly is gonnna show me the best cheesesteaks around...oh yea baby...

[Holly Moore]

....the "on a bun" theme is begining to build up...

←

careful, you don't want to give yourself away as a tourist (I don't think the camera crew will draw any suspicion... ) watch the terminology: I'm thinking back to the local lingo I hear around Philly and I don't think we don't put our meats on buns around here, I think we use rolls!

←

Only cheesesteak I ever had in LA came with a choice of sprouts or avocado. So rather thay worrying about buns or rolls, I'm focusing on limiting Chris to a Whiz Wit, with nothing from the garden.

[KatieLoeb]

....the "on a bun" theme is begining to build up...

←

careful, you don't want to give yourself away as a tourist (I don't think the camera crew will draw any suspicion... ) watch the terminology: I'm thinking back to the local lingo I hear around Philly and I don't think we don't put our meats on buns around here, I think we use rolls!

←

Only cheesesteak I ever had in LA came with a choice of sprouts or avocado. So rather thay worrying about buns or rolls, I'm focusing on limiting Chris to a Whiz Wit, with nothing from the garden.

←

You'll be taking Chris to John's Roast Pork too, yes?

Depending on what time of day/day of the week you make this excursion, I might want to join you boys. We gotta roll out the welcome mat for Chris while he's here filming!

[Chris Cognac]

....the "on a bun" theme is begining to build up...

←

careful, you don't want to give yourself away as a tourist (I don't think the camera crew will draw any suspicion... ) watch the terminology: I'm thinking back to the local lingo I hear around Philly and I don't think we don't put our meats on buns around here, I think we use rolls!

←

Only cheesesteak I ever had in LA came with a choice of sprouts or avocado. So rather thay worrying about buns or rolls, I'm focusing on limiting Chris to a Whiz Wit, with nothing from the garden.

←

You'll be taking Chris to John's Roast Pork too, yes?

Depending on what time of day/day of the week you make this excursion, I might want to join you boys. We gotta roll out the welcome mat for Chris while he's here filming!

←

Roll away and you are welcome to join us...The shooting scheduale will determine how many place we can go...I assume we could shoot the sandwich places pretty fast though...but a full on restaurant segment takes around 6 hrs....we have to set up lights, electric..do make up etc....

I think the theme of the city can be "Philly, not a vegetable in sight"

[MarketStEl]

....the "on a bun" theme is begining to build up...

←

careful, you don't want to give yourself away as a tourist (I don't think the camera crew will draw any suspicion... ) watch the terminology: I'm thinking back to the local lingo I hear around Philly and I don't think we don't put our meats on buns around here, I think we use rolls!

←

Only cheesesteak I ever had in LA came with a choice of sprouts or avocado. So rather thay worrying about buns or rolls, I'm focusing on limiting Chris to a Whiz Wit, with nothing from the garden.

←

Do you really mean nothing from the garden?

If so, that'd have to be a Wiz Witout.

Sorry, onions qualify as rabbit food, even fried, on a technicality.

Edited to add: P.S. We're visiting De' Essence of New Orleans at lunch today. Full report to follow.

Edited June 29, 2006 by MarketStEl (log)

[MarketStEl]

So I'm back from lunch.

The owner is very friendly, the food is good, and the place has a lunch-counter feel and a homey atmosphere.

But I don't think I could recommend it for your show, for a few reasons:

--Supply of food. It looks like, in their effort to maintain authenticity, the owners haven't been able to find reliable supplies yet. "Pinky" (one of the co-owners) explained to us at lunch how they were looking for andouille sausage from a favorite supplier whose plant had been in the Lower Ninth Ward, and how said supplier had only very recently begun producing sausage again at a facility in Metairie--and how her husband managed to snare a modest quantity recently, which we guess explained the relative paucity of sausage in the jambalaya and red beans and rice with sausage my colleagues ordered. The place had also run out of French bread by the time we got there (they must order once a week or so, because the restaurant opens at noon and we got there at 12:45 p.m.), so my shrimp po' boy ended up being served on a Kaiser roll.

--Service. One of us ordered the jambalaya and received a very small bowlful. As this was one of the $7.50 specials, he suspected a rip-off--which was not the case; somehow, they had gotten the order wrong and served him a side dish portion, for which he was charged only $1.50. Still, given that the restaurant wasn't that busy and the kitchen was right there on the other side of the lunch counter from our booth, the order-taking shouldn't have been so haphazard.

--Location, and here I'm thinking about your viewers, not any of us reading this. I won't explain here, but rather let my pictures do the talking. Those will go up later today when I post a report on my visit to the Pennsylvania board.

However, I would encourage anyone who reads this to give the place a try--they definitely put a lot of love into their cooking. (Edited to add: Address and directions will be posted with my review on the Pennsylvania board.)

And if you are willing to have another Philly foodie tag along on your travels, depending on your schedule vs. my own and where Holly takes you, I'd like to join in as well.

Edited June 29, 2006 by MarketStEl (log)

[Holly Moore]

Only cheesesteak I ever had in LA came with a choice of sprouts or avocado.  So rather thay worrying about buns or rolls, I'm focusing on limiting Chris to a Whiz Wit, with nothing from the garden.

←

Do you really mean nothing from the garden?

If so, that'd have to be a Wiz Witout.

Sorry, onions qualify as rabbit food, even fried, on a technicality.

←

Ya got me. Also there is the cheesesteak hoagie with iceberg letttuce, sliced tomato and fresh onion which I eat when needing a balanced meal. So for now I'll just say no sprouts, avocado or squash blossoms.

[Varmint]

Having just returned from Philadelphia and been given the abbreviated tour of the Philly sandwich scene, I will say that perhaps the single best sandwich I have ever eaten in my life is the Roast Pork with broccoli rabe and aged provolone at Tony Luke's. I had a similar sandwich at DiNic's in the Reading Terminal Market, but the flavors in Tony Luke's version (and the quality of the pork) made this an orgasmic sandwich. If I could eat just one sandwich after a night of binge drinking, this is what I'd want.

Following close behind (and I mean very close) is the Italian hoagie at Sarcone's Deli. Oh, that bread!! (Do believe the hype)

I only sampled one cheesesteak at Pat's -- a "whiz with" -- which was excellent, but I've actually had cheesesteaks that are nearly this good. I was too full to sample Geno's, but at that time (including after eating a hot dog with fish cakes, a cannoli, and about a gallon of root/birch beer), I couldn't eat another bite.

Listen to Holly, Chris. He'll do you right!

[robyn]

Hello, Folks-

I am going to be working on Chris Cognac's new show, doing research.  I have been on Egullet for a few years, mostly reading up on (nobody get offended) restaurants in France where I went on vacation two years ago.

However, I am very excited to be a part of the "Culinary Detective" team and as I understand it, our first two cities will be Boston and Philadelphia. I know there have been a ton of leads in Philadelphia, and we also will need your input for Boston (and other cities to come).

I was born and raised in Lincolnwood, IL just north of Chicago. I moved to Northern NJ in high school and frequently travelled around the NY Metropolitan area. I went to college in Boston at BU, and also lived on the Upper West Side of NY and now reside in lovely Van Nuys, CA.

I look forward to hearing from you and participating in your discussions.

Sincerely,

Andrew

←

I grew up in the Philadelphia metro area and lived there for a few years as an adult. Haven't been there recently - but I did get there a few times after I moved south. I think most ethnic cuisine in the Philadelphia area is quite unremarkable. The 2 things that stick in my mind most after all these years are great (but very retro) Italian food - and diners. Especially diners. Boy - how we miss diners here in the south.

I also lived in the Boston area as a student (and traveled there after I left). Again - one thing that sticks in my mind is great Italian food from the north end. Also Legal Seafoods - and especially its clam chowder.

Don't mean to put down either Philadelphia or Boston - but neither is in my opinion a culinary mecca - and you have to have a critical eye when figuring out what you have to offer to the outside world that's both excellent - and unique - and not yuck (think scrapple ). E.g., I went to Susanna Foos years ago - when it was in its prime - and I thought it just a notch above average back then. And also e.g., - after living in Florida for over 30 years - when I have guests here - I try to take them to places where they can eat really good stuff they'd have a hard time finding anywhere else.

By the way - hope you guys in the Philadelphia metro area all have your heads (if not your houses) above water. I can't recall flooding like this since Agnes in 1972 (when I was living in center city). Robyn

[Holly Moore]

Don't mean to put down either Philadelphia or Boston - but neither is in my opinion a culinary mecca - and you have to have a critical eye when figuring out what you have to offer to the outside world that's both excellent - and unique - and not yuck (think scrapple 

Philadelphia is indeed a culinary mecca, and not just for scrapple, cheesesteaks, pork sandwiches, hoagies and pretzels - although Philadelphia excels in all of these. Consider our last three years of BYO's, the Reading Terminal Market, Carman's Country Kitchen, even many of Steven Starr's operations. Quite a few publications rate Philadelphia as one of the top dining destinations in the country.

[Chris Cognac]

Sandy, yea you are welcome to tag along....we should be able to use you on camera for something...Holly will have the shooting scheduale when we get it set....

Each city in the U.S. has its "flavor" they might not be for everyone but we intend to find out what the flavor is in each place we go....I am looking forward very much to the Philly shoot and the "meat on rolls" stuff...Holly has been and is going to be instrumental in the success of the show.....plus I have heard he is great on camera....

We should be open to folks coming and hanging out a bit...we will use everyone we can whether its for an "interview" or just eating stuff in the background.....its not all glamour but hey, at least the food will be free

Holly, lets work on that place you told me about....with the lines iin the morning....we have pretty much scratched the Amish place as to "near the path"....

Chris

Edited June 30, 2006 by Chris Cognac (log)

[MarketStEl]

FWIW: As promised, here's my full report on that Cajun-Creole place in Chester, De' Essence of New Orleans.

[Chris Cognac]

OK...stuff in Atlanta....Silver Grill and Silver Skillet...got that from some APD Cops....anyone got info, opinions etc...

[DivineMsN]

Prob too late for this but for a good German experience in CC try Ludwig's Garten on 13th and Samson.

http://philadelphia.citysearch.com/profile/11352827

[Gifted Gourmet]

OK...stuff in Atlanta....Silver Grill and Silver Skillet...got that from some APD Cops....anyone got info, opinions etc...

←

that, yes, and then there are the wonderful, Southern meat'n'threes so popular here:

local off-the-beaten-path meat-and-threes

[Andrew B Hurvitz]

Boston, MA brunch destinations: any opinions on this topic?

Edited July 1, 2006 by Andrew B Hurvitz (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Aw, man, brunch? C'mon! Howsabout johnny cakes for breakfast in Providence?

[Chris Cognac]

Cant go there yet...food net was very strict on the cities we go to in the 1st season....if all goes well we will have control over where we go in the following seasons...so let make this first one a kick ass season....from what we are getting so far from all you guys and the other sources the 1t season is gonna rock!

Melissa...I am playing phone tag with Chef Blais but I think we are gonna use him in Miami to hunt food with me at some dives...

[bavila]

Hi there Chris. I'm late coming to the discussion, but I thought I'd offer to help if you decide to venture to Annapolis, MD when you do DC. The whole crab thing is way overdone, but we have some other cool food happenings that are sort of only on the locals' radar right now. I also have some cop friends in DC (Pentagon, US Park Police), and we've got the Naval Academy for the military angle.

[divalasvegas]

Hello there. Congrats on landing your own show. May I humbly nominate a rather out of the way Indian restaurant, the ever humble, inexpensive and tasty Delhi Dhaba. One of the entrances to this place is quite literally in an alley. I've eaten there many times and the food is always terrific--I especially love their curried goat. But really pretty much everything I've ever had there was top notch. They have two more outlets, one in DC and one in Maryland which I've never frequented so I can't vouch for them. Their address:

Delhi Dhaba Indian Cafe and Carryout

2424 Wilson Blvd.

Arlington, VA 22201

(703) 524-0008

[Chris Cognac]

I am kinda unsure about he whole DC area thing....people tell me that MD and VA are all right there....I just dont understand it.....

I think we are trying to do a thing with the Secret Service or some other white house entity....I brought up Annapolis (even though it is NAVY) and think that might be a good thing to see where the cadets eat....how far is it from DC proper?

Indian could work, how humble is your little place diva?

[divalasvegas]

I am kinda unsure about he whole DC area thing....people tell me that MD and VA are all right there....I just dont understand it.....

I think we are trying to do a thing with the Secret Service or some other white house entity....I brought up Annapolis (even though it is NAVY) and think that might be a good thing to see where the cadets eat....how far is it from DC proper?

Indian could work, how humble is your little place diva?

←

Really, really humble. Food is served on trays, paper cups, styrofoam. But it really is so very good. One sees plenty of Indian families and office workers there as well. It's also a definite Ballywood experience as they have a couple of tvs in the dining area and THAT'S ALL THEY PLAY! But that's fine with me.

What sort of thing are you planning re: the Secret Service? I'm sure it would make for interesting tv, but as a native Washingtonian it doesn't seem like the best way to get any kind of authentic DC experience. I mean would you be accompanying them as they retrieve Official Presidential Snacks a la the Jelly Bellies the SS used to buy for Pres. Reagan? Also, re: MD and VA, it really is all right there via the Metro. You're only a few stops away from downtown DC to Arlington and Alexandria, VA and Rockville, Bethesda, and Silver Spring in MD so no worries. I personally don't see Annapolis as part of the DC experience, but I'm sure that others here may disagree. Are you and your production team still looking for off the beaten path type places?