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Posted (edited)

Okay, the inquisitive Caucasian girl was loose in the Asian grocery store again. :biggrin:

I saw these substantial fish steaks on sale for $1.99/pound, labeled as "Big Head." I had no idea what kind of fish that was, but they looked purty, so I got one, figuring it would make an interesting experiment if nothing else. Turned out to weigh about 1.5 pounds; at a guess, it's a good 2 inches thick, dimensions probably more appropriate for braising or roasting (or cutting up into smaller pieces) than grilling.

A bit of Googling turned up that this is probably bighead carp, but was a little low on inspiring recipes. I did get the drift that this is a fish originally native to and popular in China, and so I'm interested in hearing about Chinese-technique recipes. My first thought is to do it as a hotpot. Am I getting warm here?

I'm also aware that carp is popular in several areas of Europe--in fact, it's a traditional fish for making gefilte fish (essentially, fishballs). Which leads me to wonder if there are Chinese or other Asian cuisines that also make this fish into fishballs. Though that's more an academic question as I don't have either the time or the tools available to start grinding fish. :smile:

Edited by mizducky (log)
Posted
Okay, the inquisitive Caucasian girl was loose in the Asian grocery store again. :biggrin:

I saw these substantial fish steaks on sale for $1.99/pound, labeled as "Big Head." I had no idea what kind of fish that was, but they looked purty, so I got one, figuring it would make an interesting experiment if nothing else. Turned out to weigh about 1.5 pounds; at a guess, it's a good 2 inches thick, dimensions probably more appropriate for braising or roasting (or cutting up into smaller pieces) than grilling.

A bit of Googling turned up that this is probably bighead carp, but was a little low on inspiring recipes. I did get the drift that this is a fish originally native to and popular in China, and so I'm interested in hearing about Chinese-technique recipes. My first thought is to do it as a hotpot. Am I getting warm here?

I'm also aware that carp is popular in several areas of Europe--in fact, it's a traditional fish for making gefilte fish (essentially, fishballs). Which leads me to wonder if there are Chinese or other Asian cuisines that also make this fish into fishballs. Though that's more an academic question as I don't have either the time or the tools available to start grinding fish. :smile:

Sweet and sour 'squirrel-cut' carp fillets are classic Shanghai - and have a nice Ashkenazic Jewish taste as well. ;)

cheers, JH

Posted (edited)
Cool. Could you say more about this "squirrel-cut" thing? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

He was talking about a dish like this:

Squirrel Fish

This is a recipe but it is written in Chinese. The sauce is made of: salt, MSG, ShaoHsing wine, ground white pepper, sugar, vinegar, tomato sauce.

Edited by hzrt8w (log)
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
Posted (edited)
[...]

at a guess, it's a good 2 inches thick, dimensions probably more appropriate for braising or roasting (or cutting up into smaller pieces) than grilling.

You may certainly use bighead carps for this recipe:

White Bass Braised with Bean/Soy Sauce (酱烧鱼)

Different fish, same process.

Thank you, Ah Leung. I did see that in your pictorial collection, but wasn't sure if it would work with the type of fish I had. I will certainly give it a try next time.

It got on towards dinner, so I decided to try braising the steak in one piece (with several deep cuts through the skin so it would cook more quickly). I braised it in chicken broth seasoned with garlic, onion, ginger, dark soy sauce, oyster sauce, chili bean sauce, and a whole bunch of black mushrooms (the soaking liquid from the mushrooms went in too). I really liked it a lot.

This fish sure has some fierce bones, though! Would that squirrel-cutting technique be meant to break up some of the bones while still leaving the fish whole (more or less)?

Edited by mizducky (log)
Posted (edited)
This fish sure has some fierce bones, though! Would that squirrel-cutting technique be meant to break up some of the bones while still leaving the fish whole (more or less)?

This Squirrel Fish dish requires a lot of mastery. The goal is to criss-cross on the fish meat without separating the meat from the bones (for presentation purpose). Then the fish is deep-fried. The meat will curl up like a squirrel's tail. I think that's how it got the name. It's much harder to do than it seems.

I believe the criss-crossing is done on the inside of the fish meat and the skin is used to hold the meat together.

Edited by hzrt8w (log)
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
Posted
This fish sure has some fierce bones, though! Would that squirrel-cutting technique be meant to break up some of the bones while still leaving the fish whole (more or less)?

This Squirrel Fish dish requires a lot of mastery. The goal is to criss-cross on the fish meat without separating the meat from the bones (for presentation purpose). Then the fish is deep-fried. The meat will curl up like a squirrel's tail. I think that's how it got the name. It's much harder to do than it seems.

I believe the criss-crossing is done on the inside of the fish meat and the skin is used to hold the meat together.

Okay, so I guess I'm not doing that technique anytime too soon! :laugh:

I suppose, then, the only solution to the boniness problem with this fish is to try and yank out as many bones as I can in advance, either before cooking, or after cooking and before serving. I now also know why my ancestors went with grinding this fish's flesh and making fishballs with it. :smile: Still, given this fish's taste and bargain price, I definitely would buy it again.

Posted

Interesting thing about bones in cooked fish. It never ceases to amaze me that little Chinese kids as young as 4-5 years, develop that special knack the we all take as second nature, to roll the bits of fish in our mouths and extract the bones. Yet most western fish dishes involved filleted and deboned fish, because it is too difficult or "dangerous" for the diners. Buncha wimps :laugh:

As for cooking a nice piece of fish like what you have, there are many ways. Try red braising (hong shao) the whole piece, or cutting the flesh into slices, velvetting them and using them in stir fries (yu pen), or, my favourite - steaming with soy, ginger slivers and green onions. The list is endless.

Fish is a delicate flesh, use as few seasonings as possible. Hmm I have said that before , I think.

Posted
Interesting thing about bones in cooked fish. It never ceases to amaze me that little Chinese kids as young as 4-5 years, develop that special knack the we all take as second nature, to roll the bits of fish in our mouths and extract the bones. Yet most western fish dishes involved filleted and deboned fish, because it is too difficult or "dangerous" for the diners. Buncha wimps :laugh:

Dang! So that's how you guys handle that! Somehow, that never seems to get covered in any of the cross-cultural etiquette guides I've ever seen. :biggrin: Probably because, as you correctly observe, Westerners tend to be wimps about that kind of thing. Well, I'm gonna give it a try--should be a fun parlour trick to play at my next dinner out. :laugh: No, seriously, I really am going to try this. I'm not sure my tongue is quite that dextrous, but we'll see.

Posted
Interesting thing about bones in cooked fish. It never ceases to amaze me that little Chinese kids as young as 4-5 years, develop that special knack the we all take as second nature, to roll the bits of fish in our mouths and extract the bones.

[...]

Yes, that is right... but not without experiencing fish bones stuck in the throat and coughing until the face turned blue a few times... then we all learned from our lessons... :raz: I surely remember mine to this day...

W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
Posted

I got a lot of bones stuck in my gums and swallowed many in Malaysia, when I regularly had to eat ikan selayang, a kind of mackeral (?) with loads of sharp, narrow bones that I don't think Malaysians eat anymore now that they're much richer. :laugh:

I don't shy away from whole fish dishes. But then, given what you know about my food preferences, you probably figured as much. :raz::wink: I agree with Ben, it doesn't get any better than steamed with soy, ginger, scallions, and (for my money) cilantro, if it's done perfectly.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

Posted

I have prepared "Bighead" and other varaiations of Carp in many ways. I recently was requested to prepare it in a very popular Hungarian Style for friends.

The best species of Carp available in Seattle was the Bighead. We purchased the Head sold seperately at Asian Markets and the tail section. The Head weighed about 2 pounds and the tail piece weighed about 2 1/2 pounds.

I requested the tail since there are not as many pin type bones located there and it was much simpler to skin and fillet prior to cooking.

We covered the head after spliting together with the skin and bones from the tail section covering it with dry white wine and water and simmered for about 30 minutes then added 10/12 cloves of Garlic, 2 whole diced Onions, 6 whole stalks of Celery, 2 Diced large Carrots and continued simmering for a additional 1 1/2 hours then strained the liquid, reserving it for cooking the Fillets.

We then diced 2 whole onions fine, shredded 1 large carrot, shredded after peeling one whole Celery Root, diced 8 cloves of Garlic placing it all into a pot containg the reserved broth seasoned with White Pepper.

This was simmered for about 30 minutes until the vegetables were starting to soften. We then added the Fish Fillets together with a generous amount of Hungarian Paprika and some Italian Leaf Parsley cooking for about 10/15 minutes until the fish appeared opaque. Turned off the Heat, allowing to stand covered a additional 10 minutes the Ladled it into Bowls and served with Lots of Bread.

It was enough for 4 Hungarians who felt like they were back home eating at the best restaurant in Budapest.

This was a popular special order party dish featured in NYC's Budapest Restaurant. The Broth is delicious, if allowed to cool, even with the amount of Onions it still jells. The fish cooked this way is naturally sweet, with flavors enhanced from the slow cooking. It's not high in calories since there is no oil added with the only starch coming from the bread. The bread is soaked in the broth. Everyone salts according to their taste.

It's not difficult to prepare, the fish fillets seem to stay together since they aren't moved or broken apart during the cooking while simmering and standing afterward in the hot broth. The red color from the Paprika is colorful and everything seems to compliment the fish.

Irwin

I don't say that I do. But don't let it get around that I don't.

Posted
I agree with Ben, it doesn't get any better than steamed with soy, ginger, scallions, and (for my money) cilantro, if it's done perfectly.

I agree too. I told you we should get married the last time. :laugh:

There's another recipe for steaming. I think it has tomatoes, a little chilli for heat, and possibly preserved vegetables. I'll get the name from my mom, who's asleep at the moment, eventually.

Though it is likely that somebody will know what I'm talking about. Or not.

May

Totally More-ish: The New and Improved Foodblog

Posted
There's another recipe for steaming. I think it has tomatoes, a little chilli for heat, and possibly preserved vegetables. I'll get the name from my mom, who's asleep at the moment, eventually.

Yeah. Teochew (Chiu Chow) style steamed fish.

Tepee has a pictorial recipe here:

Teochew Steamed Fish, - another easy dish

W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
Posted

Oh, these are all incredibly yummy-sounding suggestions, folks! Definitely am going to try all of these sooner or later.

I requested the tail since there are not as many pin type bones located there and it was much simpler to skin and fillet prior to cooking.

Now this is a really helpful tip. The market did have chunks from the tail of the carp as well as the steaks--I'll definitely go for one of those the next time.

Posted

I believe I've seen this big-head fish served in restos specializing in cuisines of Hubei and Shanghai. The specialty dish said to be a favorite of Mao is when its steamed and then combined with spicy ground pork sauce. I've had this dish a few times and it's excellent.

Posted
This fish sure has some fierce bones, though! Would that squirrel-cutting technique be meant to break up some of the bones while still leaving the fish whole (more or less)?

This Squirrel Fish dish requires a lot of mastery. The goal is to criss-cross on the fish meat without separating the meat from the bones (for presentation purpose). Then the fish is deep-fried. The meat will curl up like a squirrel's tail. I think that's how it got the name. It's much harder to do than it seems.

I believe the criss-crossing is done on the inside of the fish meat and the skin is used to hold the meat together.

Xiao hzrt -- the meat IS separated from the bones. You fillet the fish from the bones, while keeping the two sides of the fish still connected to the tail and keeping the skin attached. Then the flesh is scored.

I wish I could find a pictorial of it on-line. It is really not difficult. If I can do it, believe me ---- anyone can do it!

Posted
I believe I've seen this big-head fish served in restos specializing in cuisines of Hubei and Shanghai. The specialty dish said to be a favorite of Mao is when its steamed and then combined with spicy ground pork sauce. I've had this dish a few times and it's excellent.

My first thought was to steam the steaks and give them a black bean sauce, but the thickness of the steaks bothered me, so I thought of cutting them in half.

That Mao 'spicy ground pork sauce' sounds intriguing! Is this fish a light or a dark oily fish?

Posted
Xiao hzrt -- the meat IS separated from the bones. You fillet the fish from the bones, while keeping the two sides  of the fish still connected to the tail and keeping the skin attached. Then the flesh is scored.

Thank you for the education. The ones I had in San Diego did not have the fancy knife works. And from the pictures it's kind of hard to tell because the sauce is all over the fish.

How about it, jo-mel? You make this dish and show us how to do it? :smile:

W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
Posted
That Mao 'spicy ground pork sauce' sounds intriguing!  Is this fish a light or a dark oily fish?

This is a light fish with a firm flesh. This combination of fish and meat in a single dish, which as you know is common in Chinese cuisine, is what makes it really good. I can pair all sorts of wine with this, but my favorite is an aged Cote-Rotie.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
The specialty dish said to be a favorite of Mao

Is there any dish which isn't a favourite of Mao's?

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

MizDucky - I think you picked the best treatment for the carp. For me (and most HK Cantonese) - fresh water fish always has a slightly muddy flavour that does not work well with simple steaming. Carp, in particular, seems to have a strong mud taste. In the Shanghai area - the fish is usually cooked with big flavors (chilis, sweet or sour, spicy hot pots) that work well with the meatiness of the carp flesh and fatty richness of the skin.

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