What do you think of skate?

[Andrew Fenton]

Some thoughts on skate, with an eye to the ammonia & freshness issue.

I've had very fresh skate once. I caught a nice skate (line caught, on the beach at the Jersey shore) at about 3 PM, and ate it that night. Sauteed it and served it with brown butter and lemon juice. Nutty, a little sweet, no ammonia taste whatsoever. One of my all-time favorite food memories.

[touaregsand]

Hoeng hwe

I had this a few days ago, plain, no rice, just like that, bones and all.

[fifi]

I've seen it suggested by some that the  item sold as "scallops" in some areas is actually skate cut outs.  I had no reason to disbelieve this as I've eaten some scallops that had no discernible scallop flavor

Skate (k)nobs do look a bit like scallops (white, somewhat circular) and are sweet-tasting. I've never heard of them being used fraudulently as a scallop stand-in, but they are very tasty and (at least here in the UK) good value for money. I think I like them more than skate in fact.

On the skate/ray debate: the fish that I call skate my (British) grandmother calls ray. Not sure if this is a peculiarly British usage, but it does suggest that ray and skate may be synonymous.

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I just bumbled in here and caught this post. Back in the late 60s, I was working at the FDA foods lab. In the arcane world of US regulatory agencies, fish and shellfish "belonged to" FDA, not USDA. Anyway, we also handled imports. There was a rash of cut-out ray or skate being sold as scallops. I actually developed a method of analysing the juice by electrophoresis. The protein profile told us if it was ray or scallops. I have no idea if that substitution is still a problem.

About this time, I recall one of our fishing party catching a really huge ray. We sliced out some filets and cooked them over the camp fire. Now you are expecting me to go into rhapsodies about the "really fresh" fish, the campfire and all of that. Actually, it was only so-so.

[eunny jang]

Hoeng hwe

I had this a few days ago, plain, no rice, just like that, bones and all. 

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Ohhh, man.

Did you make it? My mom is convinced that hoenghwe (along with gaejang) is "dangerous" to make at home, and refuses to give me a recipe.

--Eunny (waiting for summer so I can OD on hwe naengmyun every day)

[touaregsand]

Hoenghwe is not at all dangerous to make at home. I grew up my mom's homemade stuff. That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger! My mom takes the opposite position, that the commercially made stuff can be bad for you.

I've wathced her make hundreds of times. It's made with frozen skate that's readily available at the Korean market. You can have the butcher slice it for you, which I recommend. But my mom is a "purist" and does the labor intensive of cutting rock, hard frozen skate manually at home.

The sliced skate is then "cooked" in vinegar, Heinz white vinegar (the big cheap jug)...

I'll ask her what here seasoning mix is and post it later. It'll take about a week, she's out of country.

EDIT: just noticed the gaejang part. That's easy to make at home and not dangerous. My mom makes the best. I'll a get a recipe for you too. If I forget just PM me.

Edited March 2, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[Placebo]

I had some fantastic skate a few months ago at a restaraunt here called Crave. it was incredibly tender and delicious. I tried making some at home but I got way too big a piece to handle and made the mistake of not having my fishmonger remove the cartiledge and such. I must say that raw skate is about the freakiest thing I've ever handled. It was like a fin taken from some sort of bizarre alien life form.

[budrichard]

Eduard Pomiane (Cooking With Pomiane) says  of cooking skate:

Skate often smells of ammonia and chemists know that ammonia forms, together with acrolein, an insoluble and odourless compound. Acrolein is formed by the action of fat at a high temperature.

  If therefore we sprinkle cooked skate with black butter which has been darkened by the action of heat we add enough acrolein to annihilate any possible smell of ammonia.

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It continues to amaze me that once something is in print, it becomes gospal. If anyone can give me a reference to scientific journal that says skate should smell like ammonia, I would appreciate it. Until then, the ammonia smell indicates skate that is decomposing, period.

BTW I had skate soup in a Korean restaurant once. Essence of garlic and heat! -Dick

Edited March 2, 2005 by budrichard (log)

[Tess]

One of the best things I've seen done with skate was at a restaurant (Retro Bistro in the Chicago suburbs) where they breaded it with black rice flour and fried it. The coating was incredibly crispy. The fish also looks nice with the black coating.

Skate does seem to be an ideal thing to cook in lots of butter, but I've also found you can cook it with minimal oil, lemon juice and capers and it's still very tasty.

[Nanna R]

Ripened or fermented skate is one of the national dishes of Iceland. Personally I don't care for it but true fans say it should smell so strongly that you almost gag on the smell. It is frequently cooked on a small stove in the garage because people don't want the stench to overwhelm the house. You can read about it here:

http://www.visitreykjavik.is/displayer.asp?cat_id=363

and there are some more photos here (text in Icelandic)

http://jol.ismennt.is/thorlaksmessa-naust.htm

[budrichard]

Ripened or fermented skate is one of the national dishes of Iceland. Personally I don't care for it but true fans say it should smell so strongly that you almost gag on the smell. It is frequently cooked on a small stove in the garage because people don't want the stench to overwhelm the house. You can read about it here:

http://www.visitreykjavik.is/displayer.asp?cat_id=363

and there are some more photos here (text in Icelandic)

http://jol.ismennt.is/thorlaksmessa-naust.htm

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Thanks for the link!

Any fish held in that condition will begin to smell of ammonia after a few weeks. We are discussing whether fresh skate should have an amonnia smell. -Dick

[howard88]

Last nite, two of our party of six ordered skate at the Long Valley

Brew Pub in NJ.

The skate was corn meal crusted and filleted. I ordered osso bucco

so was able to sample the skate. It was excellent.

The taste was delicate and sweet. It reminded me of a combination of stone crab,

scallop, and lemon sole. It was perfectly cooked and a large portion for

$17. I ordered the osso bucco over mushroom risotto. It was good but,

the skate was definetly the winning entree of the evening.

I have tried cooking skate on the bone at home and was always dissapointed.

It did taste of ammonia and the texture was nothing like what we had

last nite. I will definetly try cooking it again but this time will reject any

old skate and saute it quickly as i do with calamari.

[Placebo]

I had skate once at a restaraunt (Crave) and it was incredibly tender and delicious. Thoroughly fantastic. I tried making it at home and made the mistake of mot specifying to my fish guy that I wanted a small piece with cartilege removed. I wound up with a whole frickin wing and it was the freakiest food item I've ever attempted to handle. It felt like the fdorsal fin of some sort of strange alien creature. My attempt was an abject failure. I will try again at some point with amore managable piece.

[Basildog]

Maybe another myth, but i have heard that Rays are the only fish with a menstrel cycle and they process piss through the body, hence the ammonia smell.We need a marine biologist here.

[touaregsand]

Hoeng hwe

I had this a few days ago, plain, no rice, just like that, bones and all. 

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Ohhh, man.

Did you make it? My mom is convinced that hoenghwe (along with gaejang) is "dangerous" to make at home, and refuses to give me a recipe.

--Eunny (waiting for summer so I can OD on hwe naengmyun every day)

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I'm posting the recipe in the Elsewhere in Asia forum under the "Making Korean food at home thread."

[Viola da gamba]

On the skate/ray debate: the fish that I call skate my (British) grandmother calls ray. Not sure if this is a peculiarly British usage, but it does suggest that ray and skate may be synonymous.

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I've got a little Irish fish recipe book that, in the recipe for ray, says that skate may be used as an alternative - suggests a difference, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I love skate. Always have - but then when I was introduced to it as a kid mum said that this was "something very special and if I didn't like it that was fine as there would be all the more for her". It worked.

[canucklehead]

Love skate also. When I cook it at home - it is pan fried in butter then topped with a pan sauce with more butter, capers and lemon. The bone does not bug me at all. I grew up with lots fish from the whole cartilage fish family. In particular - I also love sturgeon steamed chinese style. with fremented black beans, ginger, and green onions.

[calimero]

I love skate, especially with broccoli (skate and broccoli soup is a roman dish).

[jayt90]

I like skate when I can get it, and usually serve with black butter sauce.

I have never bought the line that it tastes like scallops, and besides, dishonest fishmongers cut rounds out of a skate to sell as scallops.

I always smell before I buy, because it will take on the smell of ammonia if it is too old.

[russ parsons]

i stumbled into this late. but my belief (based on something i read somewhere and who knows whether it's true) is that as a member of the shark family, skates excrete urine through their pores (just as sharks do) and (just as with sharks) if they are not bled and treated properly immediately after being caught, they develop an ammonia odor/flavor.

ps: that was a great tip on the machine skinning. that's the kind of thing that keeps me reading egullet!

Edited March 31, 2005 by russ parsons (log)

[jayt90]

i stumbled into this late. but my belief (based on something i read somewhere and who knows whether it's true) is that as a member of the shark family, skates excrete urine through their pores (just as sharks do) and (just as with sharks) if they are not bled and treated properly immediately after being caught, they develop an ammonia odor/flavor.

ps: that was a great tip on the machine skinning. that's the kind of thing that keeps me reading egullet!

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I have not heard that about skates, or sharks, but it may be true. The ammonia smell, whether it's from age or purpose, is easy to detect and avoid when purchasing.

[gus_tatory]

i frequently see skate wings/'ailes de raie' at my fish shop and am tempted to try it.

then i wonder why it is so inexpensive, and i have heard that it is bony and mucilaginous (spelling?).

are there any classic and/or innovative preparations someone can recommend? any caveats i should be aware of? for example, it does not seem that it would be an appropriate fish for ceviche. would it be good crumbed and pan-fried like catfish?

thanks for any help in advance,

[Gifted Gourmet]

Here in Atlanta, there is an excellent French restaurant, Brasserie Le Coze, which has served much-praised Skate in Brown Butter ... here are some recipes which look quite interesting:

from innchef.com

Skate with Five Spices

Skate Wings with Beurre Noisette

[PassionateChefsDie]

i frequently see skate wings/'ailes de raie' at my fish shop and am tempted to try it.

then i wonder why it is so inexpensive, and i have heard that it is bony and mucilaginous (spelling?).

are there any classic and/or innovative preparations someone can recommend? any caveats i should be aware of? for example, it does not seem that it would be an appropriate fish for ceviche. would it be good crumbed and pan-fried like catfish?

thanks for any help in advance,

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Only one way flesh is fantastic, comes of the bone in thick steaks(Flesh reminds me of Flank of beef, just no chew) when cooked But best way, is simply find a pan start cooking your fish when is done take out the oil add a good bit of butter, let it go nut brown, not bitter add a handful of capers and a little of there juice, a squeeze of lemon, pour butter over fish. Classic but the only way, failing that batter it and fry it I sit here dreaming of tasting Skate and Chips!

As for expense it a big fish! Dont get wings that are to big 6-10ib fish are the best trim the thinnest edge with scissors, shouldnt get it with skin never seen it, think the sword makers use it for leather!

[carswell]

i frequently see skate wings/'ailes de raie' at my fish shop and am tempted to try it.

then i wonder why it is so inexpensive, and i have heard that it is bony and mucilaginous (spelling?).

are there any classic and/or innovative preparations someone can recommend? any caveats i should be aware of? for example, it does not seem that it would be an appropriate fish for ceviche. would it be good crumbed and pan-fried like catfish?

thanks for any help in advance,

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It's great stuff. Bony? Well, cartilaginous actually. Muscilaginous? Kind of. The skin has a viscous coating but it mostly disappears within a half-day of death, so it's really not a huge issue in Montreal. And, anyway, you should get your monger to skin it for you. If you find yourself with an unskined piece, scrape away the coating, rinse well and poach for a minute or two to loosen the skin. Also look out for the nasty spines along the outside edge (cut them off before skinning).

The classic prep is poached. (If the raw fish has an ammonia odour, add some white vinegar to the poaching liquid. If the odour is strong, brine it for a while). Serve with brown butter, lemon juice and parsley or black butter and capers.

Smaller wings take well to dredging in flour (or flour, egg and breadcrumbs, in that order) and frying in butter or deep frying. Serve with tartar sauce or sauce gribiche.

Edited May 5, 2005 by carswell (log)

[PassionateChefsDie]

i frequently see skate wings/'ailes de raie' at my fish shop and am tempted to try it.

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The classic prep is poached. (If the raw fish has an ammonia odour, add some white vinegar to the poaching liquid. If the odour is strong, brine it for a while)

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If it smells of ammonia throw it away!

I've never smelt ammonia in a commercial kitchen off skate, thats when we throw it away, it'll taste of ammonia with salt or lemon!