Food and Wine Pairings

[JohnL]

So, I have gotten an idea about which wines I enjoy. Now how do I pair them to the foods I enjoy.

My taste buds are unique so someone's recommendation to me may not work, or will it?

I ask you all to help me learn more about enjoying wine with food.

Thanks

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Your taste buds are not unique.

We are all equipped to discern salty, sour, sweet, etc.

(excepting a physiological/medical problem).

However your "taste" that is, what you like or dislike, is individual.

(though you will find no matter what your taste there likely will be others who share it).

When pairing food and wine what one is looking for in the wine is the flavor profile. That is, is the wine tannic or softer, oaky, not oaky, high in acidity or low, balanced, light bodied or full bodied --is the wine fruity or more mineral, what are the flavors? etc etc etc.

In the past, one could take a number of approaches--geographical, or varietal etc. That is one could recommend, say, a Chardonnay.

Today--chardonnay is produced in so many styles/flavor profiles that recommendation is really useless.

One also could recommend a French Chardonnay--again, even in France within specific regions, chardonnay is made in different styles.

What is most important is to recommend the type of varietal--for eg--a big oaky chardonnay --like a ......

The trick to wine and food pairing, I think, is learn to approach wine by the flavor profile and then be able to walk into a wine store and ask:

"I am making a roast leg of lamb--I need a nice balanced red wine with some body--what do you suggest?"--then try the wine with the lamb and make a note as to how it works for you.

There are thoudands of wines that fit the flavor profile and all taste differently--that's where your own preferences come in.

As for the "fetish" Americans can have re: food and wine pairing (some Americans) this is perfectly understandable. We have no history of wine making and regional cooking. That is, unlike Europe where regional wines and cuisines developed over time. Our cuisines are derivitive--they come from places other than the continental US. Our wine industry also developed independantly of any particular cuisine-it sometimes mimiced wine produced elsewhere in the world.

The nice thing or advantage we have is that many different wines are available here (imports and domestic) as well as a wide range of cuisines (domestic and ethnic). We are not "restricted" to chianti with pasta. (though that is a good match).

So while it is more difficult to pair wines and foods--the range of opportunity is staggering today, we have so many more options.

Europe is "opening up" as well--the Frenchman in the Savoie who ate the local food with the locally produced wines can now select a wine from/made not only elsewhere in France but in the world.

The French and the Italians and the Germans et al are increasingly facing our happy dilemma--what wine with what food?

[laurenkusa]

As for the "fetish" Americans can have re: food and wine pairing (some Americans) this is perfectly understandable. We have no history of wine making and regional cooking. That is, unlike Europe where regional wines and cuisines developed over time. Our cuisines are derivitive--they come from places other than the continental US. Our wine industry also developed independantly of any particular cuisine-it sometimes mimiced wine produced elsewhere in the world.

The nice thing or advantage we have is that many different wines are available here (imports and domestic) as well as a wide range of cuisines (domestic and ethnic). We are not "restricted" to chianti with pasta. (though that is a good match).

So while it is more difficult to pair wines and foods--the range of opportunity is staggering today, we have so many more options.

Europe is "opening up" as well--the Frenchman in the Savoie who  ate the local food with the locally produced wines can now select a wine from/made not only elsewhere in France but in the world.

The French and the Italians and the Germans et al are increasingly facing our happy dilemma--what wine with what food?

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thanks for the tips for describing the general characteristics of wine when asking for help.

BTW, I just started reading a food and wine pairing book by Andrea Immer earlier this month and she makes the same point about american food-wine relationships.

Lauren

[laurenkusa]

Once at Peristyle in New Orleans, the GM Brian, was pairing a wine with each course of food that the Chef was sending out of the kitchen.  Then just before the entree, he opened a bottle of wine and announced that he had no idea what we were about to eat next.  "It's fun to pair a wine with a course, but sometimes it's just as fun to open a good bottle of wine, serve some good food and let it all work itself out".

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That sounds like a good philosophy too!

thanks for the confidence booster.

Lauren

[laurenkusa]

Well I will have to see if I can find those books.  I just got a book from the library by andrea immer about pairing so i hope that will help.

Of course, here is my latest crisis: Thanksgiving.  Everything is pinot noir or chardonney.

Has anyone tried drinking something other than these 2 wines during the meal?  What did you like?

thanks again,

Lauren

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Here are some other wines that generally get recommended:

Sparkling wines, which is what I usually serve.

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Okay, so i have some Roderer (sp?) Estate sparkling wine, can it be served throughout the meal then? It sounds tasty. I just found out my mom is bringing brussels sprouts and asparagus, so if it will work with that, I guess it will work with the baked sweet potatoes and the turkey.

Also, can I still add some sherry to my gravy without causing a bad match?

Enquiring minds and all that,

Lauren

[KatieLoeb]

Well I will have to see if I can find those books.  I just got a book from the library by andrea immer about pairing so i hope that will help.

Of course, here is my latest crisis: Thanksgiving.  Everything is pinot noir or chardonney.

Has anyone tried drinking something other than these 2 wines during the meal?  What did you like?

thanks again,

Lauren

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Here are some other wines that generally get recommended:

Sparkling wines, which is what I usually serve.

←

Okay, so i have some Roderer (sp?) Estate sparkling wine, can it be served throughout the meal then? It sounds tasty. I just found out my mom is bringing brussels sprouts and asparagus, so if it will work with that, I guess it will work with the baked sweet potatoes and the turkey.

Also, can I still add some sherry to my gravy without causing a bad match?

Enquiring minds and all that,

Lauren

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I posted in another thread about Thanksgiving wine that I tend to prefer white wines with different flavor profiles with the traditional T-day feast. Savenierres, Gruner Veltliner and Scheurebe all come to mind.

The problem with hard and fast rules about wine pairing is that the wine that matches the delicate Dover Sole with a light buttery cream sauce is NOT going to taste good with Cajun Blackened flounder, is it? I try to think of the wine as an additional sauce or a condiment and try to match it that way. Find the dominant flavor in the saucing of the dish and try match that both with the body or texture of the wine and the underlying flavors in the wine. Since you're having those Brussel Sprouts and Asparagus on the side, I'd suggest a Gruner Veltliner, as it's one of the few wines I can think of that isn't completely discordant with those very "vegetal" flavors. Artichokes are hard to pair with too!

This is why I make two flavors of Cranberry sauce for Thanksgiving. Cranberry-Orange with Grand Marnier for the roast bird, and a Cranberry-Jalapeno sauce to go with the deep fried bird. I'd have a white wine with the roasted bird and probably a Cabernet Franc or Dolcetto to go with the fried bird.

But that's just me...

[Brad Ballinger]

Well I will have to see if I can find those books.  I just got a book from the library by andrea immer about pairing so i hope that will help.

Of course, here is my latest crisis: Thanksgiving.  Everything is pinot noir or chardonney.

Has anyone tried drinking something other than these 2 wines during the meal?  What did you like?

thanks again,

Lauren

←

Here are some other wines that generally get recommended:

Sparkling wines, which is what I usually serve.

←

Okay, so i have some Roderer (sp?) Estate sparkling wine, can it be served throughout the meal then? It sounds tasty. I just found out my mom is bringing brussels sprouts and asparagus, so if it will work with that, I guess it will work with the baked sweet potatoes and the turkey.

Also, can I still add some sherry to my gravy without causing a bad match?

Enquiring minds and all that,

Lauren

←

Two replies:

1. What Katie wrote.

2. There is no "perfect" wine to go with everything that gets passed around the Thanksgiving table. Some wines (like bubbly) are more versatile than others, but no wine is going to be "perfect" with everything. Having a variety of selections and letting people choose seems to work. I'm serving Cremant du Jura, Cremant de Bourgogne Rose, Beaujolais Nouveau (for my wife), and sparkling cider.

[Chris Amirault]

The way that I try to think (poorly and ignorantly, to be sure) about wine pairings is to consider what particular dominant flavors are part of a dish that can enhance or interfere with certain wines, like ginger, capiscum, umami, pectin, and artichokeyness. Unfortunately (see paren), I'm not very aware of the varietals that would work with most or all of those flavors. Are there resources that use those flavors -- instead of "fish," "chicken," etc. -- as the basis for match possibilities?

[carswell]

Are there resources that use those flavors -- instead of "fish," "chicken," etc. -- as the basis for match possibilities?

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Kind of. Red Wine with Fish : The New Art of Matching Wine with Food by David Rosengarten and Joshua Wesson advocates pairing wine and food on the basis of similar or contrasting components, flavours and textures, includes lots of examples (i.e. recipes with wines that work and don't work), appends a list of appellations and varietals with their common component/flavour/texture descriptors and lays a lot of wine-pairing myths to rest (e.g. that caviar and Champagne are soulmates). All in all, a fun if iconoclastic read. Unfortunately, it's somewhat outdated and totally out of print and the promised revised edition has never materialized.

[JohnL]

The way that I try to think (poorly and ignorantly, to be sure) about wine pairings is to consider what particular dominant flavors are part of a dish that can enhance or interfere with certain wines, like ginger, capiscum, umami, pectin, and artichokeyness. Unfortunately (see paren), I'm not very aware of the varietals that would work with most or all of those flavors. Are there resources that use those flavors -- instead of "fish," "chicken," etc. -- as the basis for match possibilities?

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well I am sure someone out here will respond with the "perfect" matches to those items!

actually--the dominance of those flavors is important.

a lot of wines do well with Asian foods which contain ginger and capsicum.

For really spicy foods I usually prefer beer.

Umami? well a lot of wines work well--wines themselves can be quite 'savory."

Actually--you are on to something because one must recognize the dish's flavor profile.

as well as cooking technique--a roast chicken vs a grilled chicken vs poached chicken etc and the dominent flavors.

say a roast chicken flavored with herbs or lemon vs a roast chicken flavored with spices and ginger etc.

I recommended this in another thread but "Wine Style" by Mary Ewing Mulligan and Ed McCarthy was just released.

It is IMOP the best book anywhere re: working with wine's flavor profiles and matching with food.

[TongoRad]

The way that I try to think (poorly and ignorantly, to be sure) about wine pairings is to consider what particular dominant flavors are part of a dish that can enhance or interfere with certain wines, like ginger, capiscum, umami, pectin, and artichokeyness. Unfortunately (see paren), I'm not very aware of the varietals that would work with most or all of those flavors. Are there resources that use those flavors -- instead of "fish," "chicken," etc. -- as the basis for match possibilities?

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I think you have to get even more basic than that- start in the right ballpark in terms of the major flavor components of the dish (sweet, sour, salty, bitter) and then fine tune from there. I have the Rosengarten/Wesson book that carswell mentioned and I love using it from time to time- the fundamental principals are still solid even if the specific recommendations are out of date- and I even have some old clippings of David Rosengarten's Newsday column from before the book was published. In my mind the classic example is the Duck a L'Orange match, where he suggests looking at the preparation (the sauce in this case) over the type of meat, which also touches on what JohnL just posted. They key, in this case, being the sweetness of the sauce which would be better served by a wine with some residual sugar than a dry Burgundy or Pinot Noir.

Here are the basic principles that have served me well these many years: sweet needs residual sugar, sour needs acid, salty needs low alcohol, and bitter needs tannin. Of course there is a hell of a lot more to it than that, and I am far from an expert on the subject, but keeping those things in mind will come in handy for many situations and give you a lot of room to experiment at the same time.

[KatieLoeb]

Here are the basic principles that have served me well these many years: sweet needs residual sugar, sour needs acid, salty needs low alcohol, and bitter needs tannin. Of course there is a hell of a lot more to it than that, and I am far from an expert on the subject, but keeping those things in mind will come in handy for many situations and give you a lot of room to experiment at the same time.

Basic chemistry 101 with food and wine pairing:

1) Acid and salt are at opposite ends of the Ph scale. Hence they tend to cancel each other out. Try this experiment. Get a rather high acid tart white wine (Sancerre or Aligote are good expamples) and taste it by itself. Then lick the space between your thumb and forefinger and salt it like you were getting ready to do a shot of tequila. This is similar. Taste the wine by itself one more time so you can recall how screechingly sour it seems. Now lick the salt and taste the wine again. Suddenly it's fruity and delicious. New dimensions that were hidden beneath those jagged edged flavors will reveal themselves.

2) Fat and tannin cancel each other out. Have a sip of a tannic red wine like a big paint stripping California Cabernet. Then have a bite of well buttered bread and taste it again. Fat, specifically ANIMAL fat (butter, a well marbled steak, salami, fatty fish) will make the tannin less "puckering".

3) Counterintuitively, one + one does NOT equal two when pairing food and wine. One + one generally equals zero, in that similar flavors mellow each other out. Acidic food with acidic wine makes each taste less so. Same goes for sweet. A wine with a little residual sugar will make the sweet sauce less cloying.

The only other thing I'd add to TongoRad's excellent comments is that Hot spicy needs sweet AND low alcohol. There's a reason we tend to drink 6% alcohol beer with Buffalo wings. A huge 15% alcohol wine will set your mouth aflame with any kind of chile peppers. Like throwing gasoline on a fire!

[Abra]

Wondering how this event turned out? Read about it here. I don't know why I was so worried about those wines - they were actually quite wonderful. Opened my eyes right up!

[laurenkusa]

thanks everyone for participating. I hope we can continue the food + wine discussion as I am finding it very interesting and I feel like I am learning quite a bit.

I do like the idea of thinking about what kind of flavor the food will have to try to match the wine. I think the next step is to give myself some notes on flavor characteristics I notice when I taste the wine so I can match it to the food more easily.

Once I can determine what flavors I detect: sweet, salty, earthy, sour bitter, etc. I can match or mix with the food. Katie's post about the flavors cancelling each other out is something to play with.

Thanks again everyone.

[Brad Ballinger]

Here are some other "basics" about food and wine pairing. I cannot take credit for these since I first learned about them from Tim Hanni.

If your food is in balance, and the wine is balanced, you should have a pretty good food and wine pairing.

Sweet and savory foods make wine taste more bitter (or stronger, or drier). Take a sip of a cabernet sauvignon. Then pop a red grape in your mouth. Then take another sip. Your perception of the wine will change based on the food you just had in your mouth.

Salty and acidic foods make wine more sweet (or milder, or softer, or smoother). With that glass of cabernet still poured, go through a tequile shot ritual minus the tequila (taste some salt and lime) then take another sip of the wine. It will be hard to believe it's the same wine you had after eating the grape.

Generally, if a food and wine pairing is a bit off, you can correct it by adding something to the food you are eating (salt, lemon, honey, fruit).

[Bill Miller]

Brad--Awhile back we paired a 10 year old rioja with a creamy chanterelle soup. It was out of this world--the wine was still crisp and I can only describe it as "earthy" . It cut thru the richness of the soup and just made for a wonderful experience. I don't know that I've heard of this pairing before, but it worked for me. It was a marriage made in heaven.

[David McDuff]

Wine: Bordeaux Clairet, Chateau Turcaud 2004

Food: Thanksgiving leftovers

I'm working from memory here, so please forgive me if the details seem a bit hazy. In spite of having a number of great friends and family members over for the Thanksgiving meal in 2005, we had enough leftovers to make for several additional lunches, snacks and dinners. Aside from the turkey, which was simply oven roasted with thyme and shallots, the main dishes were coriander glazed sweet potatoes, sausage and corn bread dressing, braised brussel sprouts with pancetta, and oven roasted string beans with wild mushrooms. Of all the wines we enjoyed on Thanksgiving Day, plus all the wines which I tried with the leftover meals, this Bordeaux Clairet was the most memorable and harmonious match.

A traditional but fairly uncommonly found AOC Bordeaux, Clairet is a style of red wine produced from a maceration of the allowed red grape varieties for approximately three days. To the eye, it looks like a deeply colored rosé. And not surprisingly, on the palate the wine drinks like a cross between a structured rosé and a lighter-bodied, everyday red. Turcaud's version shows a distinctly briny character, with bright and fairly solid red stone-fruit flavors and a fully dry finish. With the leftovers, this brininess subsided, more lushness came out of the fruit and the flavors of the turkey, dressing and wine essentially just melted together in a perfectly comforting way. A prime example of why it's often best to choose a very simple wine when serving a wide and disparate array of dishes, flavors and seasonings.

[Brad Ballinger]

I would imagine there are an infinite number of possibilities under this topic. Again, most wine goes with most food -- as long as the food is in balance and the wine is in balance.

[David McDuff]

I would imagine there are an infinite number of possibilities under this topic.

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Quite right, Brad, if this were meant to be a catalog of any and every food and wine pairing akin to the "What did you have for dinner?" and "What beer did you drink today?" threads. The idea here is to present a forum for counterintuitive matches -- things that would not have been expected to work well together -- that don't just work well but actually result in something more than the collective flavors of the dish alone and the wine alone. As a coworker of mine likes to say, "A two plus two equals six pairing..." -- and a surprising one.

[esme]

wine: A & P de Villaine Bourgogne blanc (sorry, I don't remember the vintage)

food: mushroom consomme with orange agrumato (hazy on the exact mushroom as well)

A few years ago, I was pairing wines for a meal at the restaurant where I work. We had a variety of wines, white, pink, & red, open for comparison with each of the dishes we were sampling. This was one of the most perfect matches I have ever tasted. They really became one in your mouth. The gentle oaking of the wine gave depth to the consomme and the earthiness of the consomme added complexity to the wine. Other than the fact that the wine was there and open, I don't think that I would have ever thought of combining the two.

[300rwhp]

Hello all,

I have a valentine menu for a special someone and would like to be able to say that i have actually paired wines instead of just being arbitrary. Could you please point me in the right direction.

Starting of with a parmesan reggiano and goat cheese canneloni with basil oil

small small portion just a taste

then i am doing a small soup of carrot and blue stilton

which i assume may not be a great combination but any wines to coincide let me know

Then i swtich to a cold appey with a terrine of deer and i added sour cherries to it.

before moving onto the largers course i have a chicken leg that i have prepared with a good deal of presentation bone, i then wrap it in proscuitto. I also have a trio of sauces for this dish. They are honey, tomato sweetened, and grain mustard.

Next i have a lamb tenderloin that is cooked in madagascan peppercorns, with crushed minted new potatoes and carrots. This has garlic in it.

Then for class i have added tiger prawns head on becuase what women doesnt think they are classy (who am i kidding !!!! lucky the date does) this is served with a risotti and roasted butternut squash.

Thanks and if you think the menu has some serious backfires let me know aswell.

[KatieLoeb]

I would change the order of the courses so you're moving toward richer heavier foods that pair with richer heavier wines.

Prawns and chicken before the venison terrine and lamb tenderloin.

Once you've rearranged the menu this way you can decide to move from richer white wine to rose or a lighter red like Pinot Noir prior to switching to red wines for the red meat courses.

I'd personally pair a wine with some cherry flavors in the profile with the venison terrine. Perhaps a Syrah or a Rhone blend. Then save the big paint stripping cabernet or bordeaux blend for the lamb course which should definitely be served last or at least prior to dessert.

[SBonner]

Hello all,

I have a valentine menu for a special someone and would like to be able to say that i have actually paired wines instead of just being arbitrary.  Could you please point me in the right direction.

Starting of with a parmesan reggiano and goat cheese canneloni with basil oil

small small portion just a taste

New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc...the pungent flavours and zippy acidity are a nice foil to the pasta and goats cheese

then i am doing a small soup of carrot and blue stilton

which i assume may not be a great combination but any wines to coincide let me know  Try a German Riesling like Lingenfelder Bird Label...the hint of sweetness in this wine will meld with the carrots and contrast nicley with the salty Stilton

Then i  swtich to a cold appey with a terrine of deer and i added sour cherries to it.

Masi Campofoirn... a medium bodied red with a silky like texture

before moving onto the largers course i have a chicken leg that i have prepared with a good deal of presentation bone, i then wrap it in proscuitto.  I also have a trio of sauces for this dish. They are honey, tomato sweetened, and grain mustard.Try a rich new world Viognier...better than an oaky Chardonnay or red. Get one with alot of malo so it's creamy textured

Next i have a lamb tenderloin that is cooked in madagascan peppercorns, with crushed minted new potatoes and carrots. This has garlic in it.Aussi Shiraz...personal choice I just love the fruit forward Aussi Shiraz with lamb

Then for class i have added tiger prawns head on becuase what women doesnt think they are classy (who am i kidding !!!! lucky the date  does) this is served with a risotti and roasted butternut squash. Alsace Gewurztraminer...the Pfaffenheim is richly textured and exotic

Thanks and if you think the menu has some serious backfires let me know aswell.

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Edited February 1, 2006 by SBonner (log)

[300rwhp]

Thanks to both of you for the help, especially the notes about changing the courses, i can not believe i didnt see that. As for both of you but more particularly bonner, if i am in your neck of the woods or vice versa, let me offer you some wine. As for bonner it seems to me, you spend a wack of time in van and london (uk) perhaps ill catch you in one or the other and offer you pint or preferably a bit of wine.

Thanks again

[KatieLoeb]

Your special someone has a real treat in store for them. It's nice to see someone has put so much thought and love into a menu.

Cheers and enjoy your V-day!

[Brad Ballinger]

I'd leave the venison terrine where it is. But I'd put the prawns in front of the chicken. Then I'd do the following.

For the first three courses, I'd serve the NV Billecart-Salmon Brut Rose. The bottle screams "Valentine's Day," plus it has bubbles, and it's pink.

For the prawns, I'd go with a lush riesling, such as Josmeyer's "The Dragon." Alternate choices would be a Roero Arneis from Giacosa or a Falanghina from Taburno. All will have a bit of floral and mineral, with good fruit.

I'd use the chicken leg as a transition to finish the white and start on the red. Then continue the red into the lamb. For the red, I recommend Calon Segur, a Bordeaux wine with a heart on the label. I like Bordeaux with lamb anyway, and the heart is a good Valentine's Day touch.