The Dining Room at The Ritz-Carlton, San Francisco

[ulterior epicure]

From others' accounts, I believe my mediocre meal could be an anomaly but I have not wanted to spend the money to go back and find out. I suppose I should but knowing that Siegel will be leaving for Myth makes it entirely suspect to me from the get-go. Who knows who will be cooking that evening... I imagine it will be just fine, but possibly not as good as it could be.

If that type of meal is what you are looking for (multi-course, intriguing combinations, etc.). It probably is the best probable choice. Its just sad for me to know that it should be better.

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Carolyn, you're not alone in being "anomolous." I found my meal at The Dining Room to be good, but thoroughly unexciting. I agree with the last sentence of your above post.

[weinoo]

Thanks for those replies, the last sentence tells all....a thoroughly unexciting meal, that should be better, means we'll probably go somewhere else. We're never locked in on what we think our meal has to be. Multi-course, intriguing combos, etc. are all wonderful, but we just like really good food in a nice setting with good service - easy enough.

[ulterior epicure]

... but we just like really good food in a nice setting with good service - easy enough.

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Don't get me wrong - I think The Dining Room can fulfill all of your criteria (as stated here). My meal (nearly two years ago) was technically pretty solid, but otherwise, not very memorable. The only thing that floats to the top of my memory about that meal was the cheese course and the olive oil they used on my salad.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Weinoo, I have yet to go to the Michael Mina establishment here in San Francisco (I was disappointed in his SoCal venue but I know he is rarely there while he is located here) but it is moving up on my list of must-try places. That might be a consideration for you and am sorry I don't have first-hand on his San Francisco restaurant.

[ulterior epicure]

Technically not in SF, but pretty darned close: what about Chez Panisse? I know it may not afford the refinement of The Dining Room and its ilk, but honestly, my dinner at Chez Panisse bested my dinners at The Dining Room and TFL, and rivalled ame.

What about ame?

Edited to correct punctuation.

Edited January 23, 2008 by ulterior epicure (log)

[weinoo]

Technically not in SF, but pretty darned close: what about Chez Panisse?  I know it may not afford the refinement of The Dining Room and its ilk, but honestly, my dinner at Chez Panisse bested my dinners at The Dining Room and TFL, and rivalled ame. 

What about ame?

Edited to correct punctuation.

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Yeah, we've had great meals at Chez Panisse (and Cafe F, where we'll probably end up for lunch one of the days we're west coasted).

Thanks for the ame tip - gotta go find some more info on it...

[ulterior epicure]

FWIW, here are my photos and caption write-ups of ame. Remember, this meal was from early summer 2006.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Concur with Amé -- probably a much better suggestion than Mina. And I have to say that my recent Chez Panisse experience was one of the worst I have ever had...

[kai-m]

Since Iam not even american I can not come up with any suggestions - but still I want to mention that our dinner at Ame (in early summer 2006) was one of our most disappointing dining experiences *ever*, not only regarding most of the dishes, but also in terms of service and atmosphere...(but I know that many experienced egulleters would disagree, that's why we went...).

Best

kai

[tupac17616]

there are few, if any occasions, i can think of for which i would not choose manresa to celebrate, but that's just me. hell, i find myself inventing occasions just to keep going back there again and again.

that said, although you've already been to quince, i have a hard time believing that putting yourselves in chef tusk's hands and asking to have the kitchen cook for you would lead to anything less than a very good meal.

chez panisse, too, can be great, though sometimes a bit inconsistent. ue's comment that it bested tfl for him made me smile. that's high praise. i do agree that sometimes chez panisse's highs can be very high. certainly a different type of meal than that offered by some of the other places mentioned, though, as you well know from experience. in a way, it depends what kind of place you are after this time.

sorry that i can't be of more help. but i've not yet been to some of the sf big name places (dining room, mina, danko, though i had great cheese and desserts at bar of the latter). and i've not yet made it over to ame or coi, though they're both on my to-do list. that place i mentioned in the first sentence above keeps getting in the way!

[Carlsbad]

Against my better judgment, I'm going to wade in here once more. There are places for anniversaries and there are places to go and have multi-course menus where the food is the focus. The former should be about romance, not concentrating on each course again and again. I love Chez Panisse, but it isn't the least bit romantic either, which is why I have never spent an anniversary there. I like Quince, and it can be romantic. But Acquerello is really romantic. In a beautiful small room that used to be a chapel, Giancarlo, who got his early training at the Cipriani in Venice, knows how to be the ultimate host, and can pick wines from a great list that will enchant you. The service is gracious, and the room is quiet and, yes, romantic. The food is the best elegant Italian in San Francisco.

Edited to add that the Ritz would also be a good romantic choice, although the changes might be a slight problem.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Carlsbad (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

Carlsbad makes a very good point. Most folks in the city who are celebrating an anniversary or want romance, tend to go to places like Fleur de Lys, Clementine, or Chapeau -- all very French. The other romantic spot I have been taken to and enjoyed is Bix; fabulous atmosphere, very good food, and the best tartare in the city. I am happier going there just for two or three appetizers versus the entrees.

Quite honestly for food, I continue to be most impressed with the food at Canteen and the new Kabuki Cinema restaurant (I've only eaten there once and will be writing it up when I have a few meals under my belt). I ate at Canteen last night and had there been white tablecloths and candles, it would be the most impressive offering in the city (what I think Chez Panisse USED to be like). I also *consistently* take out-of-town guests to Aziza as it continues to be my favorite restaurant to Wow people and have a very, very impressive meal.

In thinking back over Ritz, Coi, Danko, and Mina, each one offered a detraction in their food, service, or conceptualization and ultimately disappointed.

[weinoo]

I looked over the menu at Aquerello and it looks really good - our kind of food actually, and we're always looking for that great Italian meal. The room seems to have been recently redone, and Bauer 3.5 - 4 starred it back in '05.

We do have plans to go to Canteen as that looks great as well. Thanks for all the feedback.

[docsconz]

To add $0.02 to the discussion, I think so much depends on what one considers romantic. For Old World elegance, I don't think the DR @ the RC can be beat - at least not in my SF experience. If that is not one's definition of romantic, then other places would be better. Canteen is intimate with great food, albeit without the traditional trappings of elegance. Chez Panisse had excellent food, though in no way did I find it romantic. MM does not have quite the old World Charm of the DR @ the RC, but it is elegant and the food good. Except for dessert, I wasn't crazy about what I had ordered, though other dishes at the table were quite good. Ame is sleek and modern with very good Asian accented cuisine. If one has a preference for Japanese inflected cuisine, that would be my suggestion. Coi is intimate and refined with perhaps the most creative cuisine in San Francisco if not the Bay Area. Chef Patterson was the only American to present a demonstration at the recently concluded Madrid Fusion. Gary Danko is up there in the elegance department, though it has been quite awhile since I've been - same for La Folie. I have never been to Quince, Fleur de Lis, or the other restaurants mentioned.

[Carolyn Tillie]

MM does not have quite the old World Charm of the DR @ the RC, but it is elegant and the food good. Except for dessert, I wasn't crazy about what I had ordered, though other dishes at the table were quite good.

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I couldn't disagree more...

A train-wreck of a meal -- actually, quite possibly one of the worst I have had in months. Shocking compared to the Canteen meal I had on Friday evening (which I need to get written up). With Canteen a third the price for three courses with wine pairings, I was completely blown away by Canteen as being what Chez Panisse is thought of by most people.

[docsconz]

MM does not have quite the old World Charm of the DR @ the RC, but it is elegant and the food good. Except for dessert, I wasn't crazy about what I had ordered, though other dishes at the table were quite good.

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I couldn't disagree more...

A train-wreck of a meal -- actually, quite possibly one of the worst I have had in months. Shocking compared to the Canteen meal I had on Friday evening (which I need to get written up). With Canteen a third the price for three courses with wine pairings, I was completely blown away by Canteen as being what Chez Panisse is thought of by most people.

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While we don't entirely share the same opinion about MM, we do about Canteen - a true jewel. The impression I have at MM that seems to be supported by your report is that one must be careful (or more likely lucky) when ordering anything other than dessert. I may not have been thrilled with my savory plates at MM, but they were good and not the abominations that you portrayed from yours. My dining companions plates were markedly better than my own. The combination of reports may indicate a greater degree of inconsistency than may be desired in a restaurant of that level.

Edited January 27, 2008 by docsconz (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

MM does not have quite the old World Charm of the DR @ the RC, but it is elegant and the food good. Except for dessert, I wasn't crazy about what I had ordered, though other dishes at the table were quite good.

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I couldn't disagree more...

A train-wreck of a meal -- actually, quite possibly one of the worst I have had in months. Shocking compared to the Canteen meal I had on Friday evening (which I need to get written up). With Canteen a third the price for three courses with wine pairings, I was completely blown away by Canteen as being what Chez Panisse is thought of by most people.

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While we don't entirely share the same opinion about MM, we do about Canteen - a true jewel. The impression I have at MM that seems to be supported by your report is that one must be careful (or more likely lucky) when ordering anything other than dessert. I may not have been thrilled with my savory plates at MM, but they were good and not the abominations that you portrayed from yours. My dining companions plates were markedly better than my own. The combination of reports may indicate a greater degree of inconsistency than may be desired in a restaurant of that level.

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Doc - let me know the next time you are in town. I'd love to eat with you (seriously!) as you seem to get considerably better meals in this town as a visitor than I do as a local. I recall you enjoyed your meal at the Ritz as well...

Or perhaps I am just the curse that makes restaurants go bad!

[Honkman]

Full review and photos: Dining Room at the Ritz-Carlton

Travel time – the best time to indulge in one of our favorite hobbies. There is hardly any day when we don’t talk about our next potential trip, and for us arranging and planning a journey is already part of the fun. First we will have long discussions where we should go next going back and forth between new destinations we haven’t visited before and revisiting places we liked a lot but never feel we have visited extensively enough. Once we decide on a place the next question circles around how we will get there – driving/flying directly or should we travel slowly with several stopovers to get to know even more locations. But the most extensive planning is always around the time at the destination itself. Starting with finding the best hotels and reading many travel review pages the most time is spent on finding the most unique points of interest and best places to eat.

There are many different ways to explore the culinary scene of any city – starting from discussion boards as Chowhound and eGullet, local newspapers to the numerous food blogs every part of the world seems to have by now. And so it is rather easy to come up with a very long list of interesting restaurants covering a wide range of cuisines for every city, but the hard part is to decide how to prioritize this list to make a final decision on the restaurants. As much as we like to explore new places there are a few cities we visit quite regularly – Los Angeles and Las Vegas are fairly close to San Diego and we go to them, especially Los Angeles, many times every year. One city which isn’t as close by but we really started to enjoy the moment we visited it for the first time several years ago is San Francisco. Over the years we kind of lost our heart to San Francisco and hope to live there at one time but until then we try to visit the city at least once a year. There are many attractive features about San Francisco far beyond just food but the vast culinary scene of the city has always attracted us and makes the selection of the restaurants for each visit fun and painful at the same time. We always try to find the right balance between the many different ethnic restaurants often with unique regional places, e.g. diverse Italian restaurants from different regions, old-established places, like Chez Panisse and high-end places with unique tasting menus. On one of our last trips we were contemplating a number of places with more conventional tasting menus to add to our mix of restaurants for that particular trip. Some of the restaurants we were considering were Gary Danko, Campton Place or Murray Circle but in the end we decided to go for the 9-course tasting menu at the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton.

One of the aspects which attracted us to the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton was its chef Ron Siegel. He has a quite interesting and impressive background with many diverse influences throughout his career covering several well known and influential mentors. Born in New York he moved as a child to San Francisco and started to work as a butcher at John’s Town and Country Market in Palo Alto when he was 16. During the next several years he worked at several different jobs outside of the culinary world like construction and maintenance but finally decided to focus on his culinary passion and enrolled at the California Culinary Academy. In 1991 he found his first mentor with George Morrone, opening chef of Aqua, and worked under him for two years as a line cook. Morrone was also responsible for helping Siegel to find a position at Daniel in New York under the guidance Chef Daniel Boulud. It was here that he met one of his key mentors with Thomas Keller who was in the process of opening the French Laundry and hired Chef Siegel as the opening sous chef. The successful start of the French Laundry facilitated his first position as executive chef at Charles Nob Hill focusing on the fusion of French and California cuisine. After five years he moved to Masa’s in San Francisco as the executive chef before in 2004 he took over the Dining Room at the Ritz-Carlton. Throughout his career Chef Siegel had a strong foundation from French cuisine which he combined with different other influences. Perhaps the most unusual one, Japanese, came through the one event which made him famous far beyond the close circle of foodies – becoming the first US chef in 1998 winning Iron Chef Japan in a battle using lobster against Iron Chef Hiroyuki Sakai. All these features combined let us hope to be in for an exciting and unusual tasting menu at the Dining Room.

The restaurant is located inside the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in San Francisco which opened 20 years ago but is located in a more than a century old building. The hallways inside the hotel towards the restaurant are fittingly decorated to match the history of the landmark building.

The interior of the restaurant continues the theme from outside and looks very much like a restaurant from the 50s or 60s with very old fashioned décor. Once we entered the restaurant we significantly lowered the average age of the guests...

Even our seats had covers which we had last seen in one of the old movies. Overall we weren’t expecting that the Ritz-Carlton and its restaurant would be outfitted overly modern but were still surprised how old fashioned and partly also worn everything looked.

Pomegranate Martini and Old Fashioned

As always we wanted to start the night with some cocktails but that caught the restaurant a bit by surprise as they didn’t even have a cocktail menu/list but were willing to mix us something. The pomegranate juice gave the martini a good balance between sweetness and some sourness. The old fashioned was one of the better versions we had in quite some time. This cocktail often tends to be unbalanced either focusing too much on the interplay of sugar and bitters or the bourbon. In this version all three components could easily be tasted but at the same time worked perfectly together to be a true cocktail where the sum is greater than its parts.

Amuse Bouche 1: Pastry, white bean paste

Somehow this amuse bouche appeared like a reminiscence to the famed Gougères at French Laundry but with a nod to Asian influence due to the white bean paste - a simple but nice start to the tasting menu.

Amuse Bouche 2: Nantucket scallops, shaved fennel

Good interplay between the raw anise-flavored fennel and the sweetness of the scallops. The fennel also had a nice textural contrast to the soft scallops.

Amuse Bouche 3: Poached quail egg, prosciutto, white truffle, brioche

Classical breakfast pairing of runny egg with some prosciutto and white truffle shavings. Lightly toasted brioche sticks to soak up the white truffle infused egg yolk – unfortunately the egg yolk was completely set and not runny so that a key component of the dish was missing. It was quite disappointing that a kitchen on that level had problems to serve a poached egg.

1st Course: Sashimi of Kampachi, yuzu gelee, asian pear marinade

This dish clearly showed the Japanese influences from Chef Siegel. Flawless Hawaiian yellowtail with its mild flavor and buttery, tender texture was paired with the delicate sweetness of the Asian pear and the unmistakable complex citrus and floral flavor of yuzu. A dish you could also find in a better sushi place.

2nd Course: Abalone, shiitake mushrooms, chard, dashi broth

Abalone harvest season in California has very tight regulations due to the dwindling population over a long time and so you don’t see it often on restaurant menus. Abalone had a mild slightly sweet flavor with a not overly rubbery texture. The dashi broth enhanced the maritime flavor of the dish whereas we hoped to get some bitterness from the chard but it was hardly noticeable and didn’t add much to the dish which appeared a bit one-dimensional.

3rd Course: Black cod, elephant garlic, shortrib ravioli, watermelon radish

Pairing braised meats with fish is getting more and more common in recent times and to avoid that the braised shortribs overpower the delicate black cod Chef Siegel tamed the braised meat by using it as a filling for the ravioli. The pasta acts as a buffer between the flavors of the meat and fish and allows both of them to shine. The elephant garlic added a very mild garlic flavor to the dish whereas the braised watermelon radish just offered some texture to the dish.

4th Course: Lobster, marina di chiogga squash puree, sunchoke chips, red wine shallots

The tender lobster and the squash puree paired nicely but both ingredients have naturally a sweet component which rendered this dish on the overly sweet side. The shallots brought some welcomed slight bitterness but overall the dish was missing some balance.

5th Course: Hot foie gras, huckleberries, brioche, rome apple juice with longpepper

A large piece of foie gras with the wonderful buttery and livery flavor one expects, expertly prepared with a slight smokey, crunchy exterior. The sides covered the well known spectrum of sweet ingredients to counteract the richness of foie gras but stayed only within established culinary boundaries. More and more chefs try, especially in tasting menus, to present unusual pairings of ingredients to explore new culinary areas. We wished that Chef Siegel would have tried something more unusual here otherwise this dish felt like a foie gras dish we had in many tasting menus before.

6th Course: Quail, salsify, pomegranate, matsutake, Madera sauce

One of the dishes were we saw some attempts to bridge French and Japanese flavors. Quail and salsify with the Madera sauce were classical French cuisine whereas the matsutake mushroom, even though often picked at the US West coast, is strongly associated with Japanese cooking. The strong, meaty matsutake flavor went well with the quail and the pomegranate seeds added a nice tartness and some texture. Overall one of the stronger dishes of the night.

7th Course: Beef ribeye, celery root, porcini mushrooms, sancho pepper reduction

Another dish which was very well executed on a technical level with perfectly medium rare and tender ribeye but paired, here with porcini mushrooms, celery root, potatoes, as we have seen it many times before. The sancho pepper reduction didn’t really add much to the dish and so it felt like a déjà vu with prior tasting menus.

8th Course: Cheese selection, bread, condiments

Normally we expect in such high-end restaurants that it is possible to select a few cheeses from a cheese cart. Unfortunately here at the Dining Room no cheese cart was to be seen and the selection was made for us. The bread was just regular baguette with the condiments just a few slices of apple and some almonds – one of the more disappointing cheese courses.

Intermezzo: Persimmon sorbet, carrot granite

Refreshing and unusual combination between persimmon and carrot with the vegetable providing the sweet component whereas the fruit added some tartness. A surprising palate cleanser which we wished to be much larger.

9th Course: Chocolate-layered cake, vanilla ice cream, pineapple puree, gingerbread cake, pear sorbet, caramel sauce

Dessert came with two variations of cake - both of them moist and not too heavy but also not too far from the expected norm. The dessert was lightened up by some fruit sorbet and puree but overall followed the theme of the savory courses – well made on a technical level but it felt like we had the same course in many tasting menus before.

We finished the tasting menu with an espresso

Mignardises:

As much as we had hoped for a cheese cart we were surprised about the large selection on the mignardises cart and were able to taste a large selection of their very good sweets.

Ritz-Carlton hotels are not really known as edgy, modern places but once we entered the hotel we were surprised how old-fashioned everything looked and started wondering how much the Dining Room would fit in. Part of the fascination of every great restaurant is not only the cuisine and service but also the ambience which should form a coherent unit with the philosophy of the chef. Chef Siegel’s reputation was letting us to expect a tasting menu anchored in French cuisine but with modern interpretations, often including Japanese influences, and brimming with creativity. The technical execution of many dishes revealed indeed the strong French cuisine background of Chef Siegel and was mostly on a high level, perhaps with the major exception of the failed poached egg. But what we were completely missing were the creativity and surprises one expects from tasting menus at this level. There were sometimes sprinkles of Japanese influences by the use of some Japanese ingredients but mostly the dishes had either a clear French or Japanese background without many efforts to create any new directions. But even the many dishes with French influences were staying very close to the expected norm without any surprises. There was hardly any dish throughout the tasting menu were we didn’t comment how they reminded us of dishes we had eaten at other occasions before, everything felt like repeats. It speaks volume that the two things we remember most from this dinner were the intermezzo, with its unusual and successful combination of persimmon and carrot, and the huge mignardises cart – both are normally only a side notes of a tasting menu.

Besides the uninspired dishes the service at the Dining Room was far from its very good reputation. Prior to our visit we often read about the flawless and polished service at the restaurant but that was different from our experience. Starting from a very rushed service at the beginning which slowed down after we asked for a more reasonable pace to servers which didn’t really know what they were serving (and had to help each other to get together all components of a dish which they were serving) the service was simply not very professional. But worst was when the maitre’d started to bad-mouthing restaurants when talking with other guests. He compared other one star Michelin restaurants in San Francisco to the Dining Room and in particular slandered about One Market and its “horrible food and service” which was quite ironic as we just ate there a few days before and had a much better experience than at the Dining Room.

It didn’t came as a surprise when some time after our visit to the Dining Room we read that Chef Siegel was closing the restaurant to renovate and reopen it under a different name and different, more casual, concept. On one side we particularly enjoy restaurants which offer tasting menus and so seeing another one closing or changing its direction wasn’t encouraging. But at the same we felt that the Dining Room at the Ritz-Carlton was clearly past its prime and was in need of a readjustment. Perhaps this new concept will give Chef Siegel the opportunity to go back to his roots of creative cooking.

[threestars]

It sounds great according to the replies and I want to see the photos as well, but it seems like I can't see the pictures. It returns an error page. Hope I am not out of topic, but I wish I could see them too. Thanks!