17.11 pound ribeye roast...help!

[project]

Jack,

Ah, come on! Humans detect pain from heat when skin temperature reaches about 144 F. At the temperature you are 'cooking', the animal might not feel a thing!

That temperature and your final photograph reminds me of my father's remark:

"I seen critters get hurt worse'n that and get well!"

When you took it out of the oven, was it still moving?

[jackal10]

Jack,

Ah, come on!  Humans detect pain from heat when skin temperature reaches about 144 F. At the temperature you are 'cooking', the animal might not feel a thing!

That temperature and your final photograph reminds me of my father's remark:

"I seen critters get hurt worse'n that and get well!"

When you took it out of the oven, was it still moving?

←

The meat is actually cooked, easy to slice and the possible pathogens killed

The FDA (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fc01-3.html#3-4) stipulates (including holding time):

Temperature
 °C (°F)	Time1 in Minutes
54.4 (130)	112
55.0 (131)	89
56.1 (133)	56
57.2 (135)	36
57.8 (136)	28
58.9 (138)	18
60.0 (140)	12
61.1 (142)	8
62.2 (144)	5
62.8 (145)	4

Temperature
 °C (°F)	Time in Seconds
63.9 (147)	134
65.0 (149)	85
66.1 (151)	54
67.2 (153)	34
68.3 (155)	22
69.4 (157)	14
70.0 (158)	0

[Marlene]

Jack that looks seriously good. I'm going to give this way a try. How hot an oven for the last 10 mnutes to crisp up the outside? And held for how long after removing from the oven?

[BryanZ]

"I seen critters get hurt worse'n that and get well!"

When you took it out of the oven, was it still moving?

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Personally, I would go ever rarer.

[jackal10]

Jack that looks seriously good.  I'm going to give this way a try.  How hot an oven for the last 10 mnutes to crisp up the outside?  And held for how long after removing from the oven?

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You can brown the outside before or afer the long slow cook or not at all. I slightly prefer after.

My over was about 450F. It really is justa quick grill of the surface. You can even use a blowtorch or turn it in a hot pan.

Wasn't held at all. That is the beauty of the log slow cook method. Since the whole meat is at near enough the saame temperature, holding is pointless.

[ChefCrash]

I've done two 12lb roasts this way since x-mas. I brown mine in the beginning at 550 F for ten minutes then roast at 150 F (the lowest temp my digital oven can attain).

Not surprising however is that my 12 lb roasts also took 6 hours to reach 130 F.

I don't think Marlene's 22 minutes/pound @ 300 F is a good idea. Unless you like Carbon.

[Marlene]

I've done two 12lb roasts this way since x-mas. I brown mine in the beginning at 550 F for ten minutes then roast at 150 F (the lowest temp my digital oven can attain).

Not surprising however is that my 12 lb roasts also took 6 hours to reach 130 F.

I don't think Marlene's 22 minutes/pound @ 300 F is a good idea.  Unless you like Carbon.

←

I can assure you, as you'll see if you look through the many posts of my various Prime Ribs, that none of them turn out like carbon. However, Jack's method really intriquges me and I'm definately going to try it next Prime Rib outing.

[ChefCrash]

I have no doubt that your Rib Roasts are anything but delectable.

22 minute/lb at 300 deg. may work for roasts in the 3 to 6 lb range. Where the thickness to length ratio is close to one. Larger roasts only get longer, not thicker.

According to my notes a 12lb roast (after sitting out for about 2 hours) @ 300 F cooks to an internal temp of 130 in only 3 hours.

[Marlene]

I have no doubt that your Rib Roasts are anything but delectable.

22 minute/lb at 300 deg. may work for roasts in the 3 to 6 lb range. Where the thickness to length ratio is close to one. Larger roasts only get longer, not thicker.

According to my notes a 12lb roast (after sitting out for about 2 hours) @ 300 F cooks to an internal temp of 130 in only 3 hours.

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Yeah that would be about right. But then I never said I cooked mine at 300 for 6 hours.

[project]

If a restaurant served me 'roast beef' at 130 F, I'd say: "Heck, the plate from the plate warmer is supposed to be hotter than that. Bring this thing back once it's both dead and cooked."

Jack is starting something new: Restaurant customers will arrive with their cell phone, credit card, watch, pen, and instant read food thermometer!

Uh, guys, if you like 130 F beef, okay by me, but might keep in mind that Jack's table says that need to be at 130 F for 112 minutes, that is, nearly two hours. So, just raising the temperature from 40 F, 70 F, or 98.6 F to 130 F, slicing, pouring over the pan sauce, chomping down on the garlic bread, and guzzling the Chambertin doesn't promise to meet the FDA criteria.

NOW I see how Jack was able to cook the thing without strapping it down: It didn't feel enough pain from the heat to want to jump out of the oven!

[BryanZ]

Project's post brings up a lot issues that are raised in sous vide cooking. If one thing's for sure, it's that a lot of what we eat doesn't meet the FDA's criteria.

Edited February 13, 2006 by BryanZ (log)

[jackal10]

You mean you don't take an instant read themometer with you when you go to dine?

Your conventionally cooked 300F beef, is still likely to be pink in the centre, and so probably around 135F, Similarly a rare or blue steak, Even with half an hours standing it will often not meet the FDA criterion in the centre of the meat. However you are unlikely to die from food poisoning from it, since most of any possible bugs are likely to be fried on the hot outside, not in the middle of a solid piece of meat. Hamburger or meatloaf, however is something different.

[project]

Jack,

On your

"Your conventionally cooked 300F beef, is still likely to be pink in the centre, and so probably around 135F", SURELY we recall, over in Dr. Susan's "Why is my roast beef always tough?, 18 yrs trying to make good one--no luck" your post 16 and, just ahead, my post 15 with

Beef Rib Roast. For rib roast, here are some notes from a successful effort: We bought a rib roast with three ribs, including the "first rib", with the rib bones attached (not cut away), and raw weight 8.11 pounds. We placed the roast in a shallow stainless steel roasting pan covered with aluminum foil; the orientation of the roast was fat side up; we placed the glass meat thermometer in essentially the center of the meat; we roasted (uncovered, no water added) at 325 F; after 3 hours 45 minutes, meat internal temperature was 150 F; after 4 hours 15 minutes, 161 F; after 4 hours 39 minutes, 171 F; we kept the roast in a warm oven with meat internal temperature between 165 F and 171 F for another 1 hour 20 minutes before carving and then carved and served. It was good.

I agree that the center was sterile, from your table and the fact that the center of the roast was over 150 F for 2 hours and 14 minutes and over 165 F for 1 hour and 20 minutes!

That thar critter was DEAD, COOKED, and STERILE! I liked it! Our guests that evening were a meat packer and his wife, and she tried unsuccessfully for years to do as well with her fancy oven!

No "Your conventionally cooked 300F beef, is still likely to be pink in the centre, and so probably around 135F" for me!

[BryanZ]

I cannot conceive why one would want to cook a rib roast to 171 and hold it there for over an hour.

[project]

BryanZ,

For your

"I cannot conceive why one would want to cook a rib roast to 171 and hold it there for over an hour."

One reason is that the trial I described was from some notes now over 20 years old, long before eG or my reading of Jack's posts!

A reason for the 171 F was that I like "medium well" beef and my meat thermometer has about 170 F as about the range for medium well done.

The reason for holding the roast for over an hour was that we were cooking the roast for a dinner party, started the roast in 'plenty of time' to have it ready at the appointed starting time for the party, had the roast ready early, and held the roast warm until time to serve. We didn't hold it an hour as part of 'cooking' it.

But, it was good, plenty tender and juicy.

[jackal10]

If you like your beef cooked that well, so that it is no longer pink, then you would do better to start with a cut that has more connective tissue in it, such as a rump or brisket, as in a BBQ style. The collagen melts to unctious deliciousness.

Cooking a cut with little connective tissue that well such as a filet or rib roast, can just lead to dry, shred like meat as the muscle fibres fall apart. Tender, certainly, but you will have paid much more than you need to, and the cheaper cut will eat better.

[project]

I recognize the lion by his paw!

[Marlene]

Jack, I'm up for trying this method on Saturday as we are having guests. A couple of questions.

First, my oven will go as low as 135 on regular bake and on convection. Should I use convection or regular bake?

Second, the roast is 8 lbs. I want to plan to eat at 8 p.m. Should I still figure on 6 hours for med rare?

[ChefCrash]

I have not made a roast this small using this method. I'd skip the browning til the end. Start at 2pm and roast at 140* til you have an internal temp of 130*. If you reach this temp early, take the roast out.

Twenty minutes before serving, put it back in a pre-heated 550* oven for 10 to 15 minutes. This will brown the meat as well as warm it up.

[Marlene]

Well, Jack's was 5 lbs, so I figured I could try it., I thought I'd wait to brown until the end. But convection or non?

[Anna N]

I desperately wanted to try Jack's method but my oven cannot get below 170F so I tried another method. 500F for 7 mins per pound then turn off oven and leave roast for at least an hour. Here's the result:

Internal temperature after 1 1/2 hours was 127F. Best roast ever!

[Marlene]

Anna, that looks amazing!

[Marlene]

I'm doing jack's method today. Am i correct in assuming the meat is completely unadorned going in? No salt or olive oil rub?

I'm thinking 140 convection for 5 hours?

[snowangel]

Marlene, I have a couple of cookbooks that advocate a slow roasting (none as slow as Jack's) and they all say salt and pepper.

[Marlene]

I notice though that Jack's doesn't look dressed with anything. I've decided not to screw around with the method. It's going in at 1:30 at 140F regular oven for eating at 7:30 tonight. I'm using a 10 lb roast instead of the 8 one I orginally planned.