The Cooking and Cuisine of Lombardia

[hathor]

Local legend dates risotto alla milanese to 1574 when the daughter of the master of stained-glass at the cathedral was to wed.

<snipped>

However, other food historians claim that there is a dish similar to risotto alla milanese in the cookbook written by the French royal cook Taillevent (Viander, ca. 1370 for the Valois court): riz engoute.

Alberini in Il pranzo all'italiana seconds what everyone else has said up-thread about Eastern origins and Sicily.  I have to wonder about Naples, too, though if Spain is involved, given the rule of Alfonso I in Naples and his attempts to take over all of Italy by forging alliances with Northern Italian courts during the Renaissance.  However, Alberini points to a recipe published by Messibugo in an extremely important book he presented to the cardinal of Ferrara in 1510.  There, the dish is called "alla siciliana."

I've been out of town & am just catching up with this thread. I'm really enjoying learning more about each region this way and looking forward to trying a few dishes alla Lombardia. the Malfatti look VERY tempting...

Re the conjectural history of Risotto alla Milanese (RaM):

The Viander recipe is simply rice boiled in milk and stock with saffron added for color. Nearly identical recipes for rice coloured with saffron can be found throughout early medieval Europe, which I think gives the lie to most of those RaM legends. Additionally, the process for cooking risotto as we know it does not appear in any pre 1600 cookbooks I'm familiar with.

Slight error on Alberini's part by the way, the 1549 Messisbugo recipe for Sicilian rice recipe has no saffron (at a quick glance, it looks like a simple baked rice with whole eggs in it). However the preceding recipe in Messisbugo, A fare Riso o farro con torli d’uova e formaggio 'To make rice or spelt with egg yolks and cheese', is somewhat closer to RaM. Roughly it says to take rice & boil it in broth, and when it is almost done add a mixture of grated hard cheese & eggs with a little pepper & saffron, and then mix constantly till it's done cooking.

No butter, no frying the rice, no soffrito, but the egg & cheese mixture does add a risotto like creaminess not found in simple boiled rice.

I beleive that Artusi was the first to publish a recipe for "Risotto alla Milanese" as such, but I'm not as familiar with post 17th c. sources, so I could be mistaken.

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..and now from the land of the eternal questions: when did aborio type rice show up in Italy? That would make a difference in the prep. Aborio will absorb and absorb liquids, but the Indian type rice, which would have come from Asia, stops absorbing when done.

Good history stuff, I love it!

[hathor]

Nice dinner Nathan!! Don't feel awkward...or "un-authentic" about the Vermont marscopne. Its far more "italian" in spirit to buy good local products!

[Kevin72]

. . . Without this thread, I would probably use pork which is cheaper and has more flavor.  I also like to garnish this with a salad of parsley, lemon zest, chile flakes, olive oil, and lemon juice but tonight I decided to just pair it with a glass of red wine.  It is amazing how well the term milanese has stuck.  Even the Mexican taquerias in my area offer milanese for their tortas.

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Hey, our taquerias do that, too! And, yeah, I go for pork chops whenever I make this dish. It's really good with a little arugula salad on the side with lemon juice.

What are Alba Pioppini mushrooms? Never seen or heard of them before. Do they have much flavor?

[azureus]

I was finally successful baking ciabatta, thanks to advice from jmolinari and hathor.

I used the first of the two recipes posted by Jason above. I only had all-purpose flour, so I added wheat gluten to strengthen the dough, as the recipe called for bread flour. I made two batches. The first batch, I added the full 475g of water, 2 teaspoons of gluten and beat the dough in my mixer for the full 15 minutes. The dough made nice slapping sounds, but never really held together, and it seemed more like a batter. The resulting loaves had larger holes than in the loaf shown above, but they didn't really rise. For batch #2, I added 4 teaspoons of gluten and reduced the amount of water to 450g. Beating this dough caused my Kitchen Aid mixer to dance across my counter. This batch produced nicely risen loaves, with nice crusts but smaller holes and very "springy" interiors. I plan to increase the water again for batch #3, in an effort to get larger interior holes and even more oven spring.

I also made a batch of ciabatta from Carol Field's book, beating it for 15 minutes in the KA. This resulted in flat, flabby loaves. It's a good thing that I have poultry that are willing to eat my mistakes.

April

[jmolinari]

Azereus, glad it worked out! You'll have to try a few batches until you find the right ratio of water/flour/gluten, but it looks pretty darn nice to me! On my initial tries, the bread had so many big holes it called it "airbread" and it was too light. I needed a little more density to make good sandwiches.

jason

[Eden]

..and now from the land of the eternal questions: when did aborio type rice show up in Italy? That would make a difference in the prep. Aborio will absorb and absorb liquids, but the Indian type rice, which would have come from Asia, stops absorbing when done.

Good history stuff, I love it!

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I was wondering the same thing. I couldn't find much but per Mary Taylor Simeti's "Pomp and Sustenance" the Superfino rices are all 20th c. hybrids which have mostly replaced the riso originario which was previously used. (A short grained Japonica rice)

I'm highly tempted to order some riso originario and see how it compares.

[Adam Balic]

..and now from the land of the eternal questions: when did aborio type rice show up in Italy? That would make a difference in the prep. Aborio will absorb and absorb liquids, but the Indian type rice, which would have come from Asia, stops absorbing when done.

Good history stuff, I love it!

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I was wondering the same thing. I couldn't find much but per Mary Taylor Simeti's "Pomp and Sustenance" the Superfino rices are all 20th c. hybrids which have mostly replaced the riso originario which was previously used. (A short grained Japonica rice)

I'm highly tempted to order some riso originario and see how it compares.

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As far as I am aware the original Italian rices varieties are of the Japonica type (although, I am sure that there has been much hybridization with the Indica type to produce new strains).

Rice culture in Italy (Lom. & Pied) was relatively late (15th century), but rice appears in various earlier recipes, and was most likely a high end trade item. The Romans knew of rice, but used it medicinally, rather then as a culinary item (based on extant records). According to Cliff. Wright large scale trade of rice in the Europe had to wait for the establishment of riziculture by the Arabs.

There are many different types of rice in Italy, even if the three most common risotto types dominate the mental map of 'Italian rice'. Basically, they are classified on size of the grain and cross section into various groups, but there is a lot of overlap.

Originario rice (Cripto, Auro, Rubino, Balilla, Ticinese).

Semifino rice (Italico, Vialone Nano, Maratelli, Neretto, Monticelli, Padano, Lido, R. Marchetti).

Fino rice (Ribe, R.B., Ringo, Europa, P. Marchetti, S. Andrea, Veneria, Europa).

Superfino rice (Arborio, Volano, Roma, Baldo, Carnaroli, Razza 77, Silla, Bonni).

I have read at some point that the Arborio rice that we have now is not the same as the original rice of this name, but have been unable to chase this up. But, 'Arborio' refers to a variety of rice and is also a market name for a wide range to risotto type rices, so of all the 'Italian' (it is grown in the USA and Australia), it is most likely going to be the most variable in terms of the product.

These rices have different properties etc, but as for the Originario types, they are very small grained and are very good for deep fried balls of rice and soup, but I'm not sure that I would use them for risotto, as I like the 'creamy' texture of risotto. Not that I can make risotto.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Adam Balic (log)

[FoodMan]

Last night's simple and quick, well if it takes less than an hour to make it is quick, Lombardy dinner.

I munched on some Bresaola and homemade bread while preparing everything and called it an antipasto.

Primo: Risotto Ai Carciofi, I used frozen artichoke hearts for this one because they are so easy to use and taste great and are always ready in my freezer. The recipe is from Jamie Oliver's Italy cookbook and it also uses a little lemon zest and some olive oil and mint to dress up the artichoke topping.

Secondo: Pork chop Milanesa, served it with a simple salad of red leaf lettuce since no decent arugula was present. the cutlets were pounded thin, coated in bread crumbs (no flour or egg) and pan fried in olive oil and butter till GB&D.

I am also very interested as to how the word Milanesa became incorporated in the central/South American dialect. In grocery stores here in Houston and especially ones catering to Hispanics, any thin cut of beef or pork is called a Milanesa. You can order a Milanesa at any Colombian restaurant as well and it could be breaded and fried and made of pork or could be a thin slice of beef simply pan fried with no breading. It probably made it to the Americas with the Spaniards, but did they take it from the Italians or vice versa?

[Pontormo]

The meals above look great, one and all, especially the beautiful little substitutes for porcini.

Thanks for the information about the rice, too. Speaking purely from memory, I seem to recall that rice was orginally used as a soup (sort of a congee) before risotto was "invented." Therefore, the recipe that Roberto Donna has for crema di riso ( soup) surrounding a sformato may be quite traditional.

I am wondering if anyone here has ever had torteli (sp? NOT tortellini) di Crema, a kind of chocolate ravioli made in one small town in Lombardia. Since the filling also calls for amaretti, I am thinking of making a small batch along with one filled with zucca and the same cookie.

Tonight: pizzochero finally.

[Adam Balic]

I am wondering if anyone here has ever had torteli (sp? NOT tortellini) di Crema, a kind of chocolate ravioli made in one small town in Lombardia.  Since the filling also calls for amaretti, I am thinking of making a small batch along with one filled with zucca and the same cookie.

Tonight: pizzochero finally.

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I have made them, but never had the originals. The recipe I have is from Anna del Conte, who says she collected the recipe from the Crema restuarant 'Pia Triassi' which had the best reputation at the time for them. She suggests that they should be made fairly small, rather then large and that it traditionally the pasta is 'poor mans pasta, made with eggs and water, but you should do make the pasta from what is best for you.

Ingredients for the filling.

Sultanas, candied citron, marsala, amaretti di saronna, dark chocolate, parmesan, eggs, breadcrumbs, marscapone, pepper, salt.

They are really interesting and well worth making. I think that there is a temptation in English language cookbooks to transfer these into a 'dessert' pasta, but I think that this is wrong. People that seem fine with eating sweet Asian foods as a savory, so it shouldn't matter that there is an occasional dish that is similar in the European tradition as well.

Edited February 19, 2006 by Adam Balic (log)

[Adam Balic]

Thanks for the information about the rice, too.  Speaking purely from memory, I seem to recall that rice was orginally used as a soup (sort of a congee) before risotto was "invented."  Therefore, the recipe that Roberto Donna has for crema di riso ( soup) surrounding a sformato may be quite traditional.

Tonight: pizzochero finally.

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I think that looking for a rustic ancestor of risotto may be slightly off track. Rice was a high end product and the early riziculture in Northern Italy was dominated by the fact that the workers were virtual slaves, often starving according to contempory sources. I'm not sure that these unfortunate people would have had an oppertunity to develope the rich dishes that characterise 'risotto' although I'm sure that they ate rice dishes of some sort. Also, although the rice we buy is a relatively uniform product, this has not always been the case and I would imagine that the top grades would be sent off to the wealthy and the poor grades are what would be consumed by the growers. So of all the rice dishes in Italy, many most likely do not have rustic roots at all.

There is a recipe collection by Martino of Como (mid-15th century, worded for a powerful cardinal ), this book was extensively copied in various forms for the next few hundred years. In this collection there is a recipe for 'Riso con brodo di carne'. This is rice cooked with capon/chicken broth, flavoured with spices, coloured with saffron and thicken with eggs. The recipe also says you can leave out the eggs, as some people do not like them with rice. Obviously, this most likely represents a class of high status dishes and while it may not be a direct ancestor of risotto Milanese, I imagine that rich rice dishes, that contain expensive ingredients most likely come from this high end cooking and represent trickle down, rather then refinement of a peasant dish (although I am sure that these exist as well).

I hope to cook something soon BTW - am a bit busy at the moment.

[Nathan P.]

Hello,

Sfursat wines are imported into the U.S., but they are hard to come by.

Sfursat (or Sforzato) is a dry red wine made from chiavennasca in the same way Amarone della Valpolicella transforms corvina.  But I've not had any personal experience with Sfursat wines, so I'll have to stop there.  Perhaps some others who come to this thread by way of the Wine Forum can add more input.

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I love a good challenge

Picked this up at my local shop today.

Unfortunately, this was the last bottle so I did not get to taste it at the wine bar in advance but was assured that it was worth the pricey, for my wine budget, $40. Am told it is

  The Corte di Cama is produced using the rigoverno (or governo or ripasso) method: about 50% of the grapes are dried then, in January after harvest, pressed. The sweet juice is subsequently added back to the new wine for additional fermentation. The result is that the wines are a bit higher in alcohol, and a bit softer, less acidic than would otherwise come from an area this cool.

Now I need to come up with something to pair with it.

[albiston]

Some cooking from early last week. Given the nice snowy weather we had here in Thuringia, a polenta dinner seemed just the right thing.

I made polenta, for once, the traditional ways: stirring the cooking cornmeal porridge constantly (or almost) for a good hour. My arms were just a wee bit sore the next morning; at least now I understand why those old women from the Alps regions have such extraordinary biceps. Compared with the instant stuff polenta made the traditional way definitely has a better texture and more aromatic taste.

To go with the polenta I we had some Taleggio, funghi trifolati (pan cooked mushrooms flavoured with plenty of garlic and parsley) and luganega al sugo (luganega cooked in a little tomato, onion and red wine sauce). I made the luganega using the recipe Adam posted before, but having no casings at hand I just turned the force-meat into small meatballs: the recipe works great, definitely the right flavour, though I would maybe add a tiny bit more Parmesan.

At the last moment I also made some costine con salasa alla diavola, pork ribs with "devil's" sauce, using the same recipe I mentioned in the riso alla pilota post. This time they went with a simple green sauce made of flat leafed parsley, garlic, lemon juice, vinegar and olive oil.

[Chufi]

I just can't seem to get around to cooking anything for this thread.. and soon February will be over!

But I'm enjoying everybodys dinners so much. I'm craving a nice golden crusted Milanese cutlet right now! Maybe there's one in my future before the month is over..

[Kevin72]

Housekeeping note: With March right around the corner, just a reminder again that the next thread will be on Friuli Venezia-Giulia. Also, it marks the end of Q1 for this year so, as we discussed previously, it will be time to open up for the three regions we'll be covering in Q2: April, May, and June. We want to get the next three regions we're covering in those months sealed over so members have time to get out there and find resources.

With that in mind, I'd like to open up voting for Q2 now, with an eye towards making an announcement on those regions right around the beginning of the second week of March. So PM me your choice for the next three regions you'd like to cover, preferably in order of preference, and then I'll tabulate all the results.

[azureus]

I can't seem to get it together enough to make a meal for this region, either. I did manage to bake again:

Again, baking from Carol Fields' book, I made Ciambelline Valtelline, "Little Rye Rounds from Valtellina". The bread looks like giant rye bagels. They turned out somewhat soft inside, with nice chewy crusts. In her book, Carol says that rounds were dried and hung on strings to store for the winter.

I do have two lamb shanks in my refrigerator, at about 1.5lbs apiece. They are too thick to use for ossobucco, so I'm looking for other Lombardia recipes that calls for lamb shanks. Any ideas?

April

[Kevin72]

Are they boiled and then baked, as with bagels?

Just cook the shanks osso bucco style: tomato sauce, white wine, gremolata . . . what could be wrong with that?

[azureus]

Are they boiled and then baked, as with bagels?

Just cook the shanks osso bucco style: tomato sauce, white wine, gremolata . . . what could be wrong with that?

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No, they're place directly into the oven after the second rise. But, the recipe calls for spritzing the rounds with water three times at the beginning. That's what makes the crusts chewy, I think.

I had hesitated, since I read that shanks that were too thick would be tough. I've never prepared ossobucco, so I didn't want to ruin the meat.

April

[Kevin72]

I've made lamb "osso bucco style" before and they worked great. Shanks in general are the best.

[hathor]

Just cook the shanks osso bucco style: tomato sauce, white wine, gremolata . . . what could be wrong with that?

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I had hesitated, since I read that shanks that were too thick would be tough. I've never prepared ossobucco, so I didn't want to ruin the meat.

April

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Edited February 21, 2006 by hathor (log)

[FoodMan]

Saute the holy trinity of carrots, celery and onions (don't brown anything, just soften)

ooh Hathor! don't let any Cajuns hear you say that . The holy Trinity is onion, celery and GREEN BELL PEPPERS. carrots make it a mirepoix.

[hathor]

Saute the holy trinity of carrots, celery and onions (don't brown anything, just soften)

ooh Hathor! don't let any Cajuns hear you say that . The holy Trinity is onion, celery and GREEN BELL PEPPERS. carrots make it a mirepoix.

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oh...hmmm...must be a different sect of the "Culinary Church".....we must all be respectful!

[Pontormo]

I have just started catching up to this thread where I will be able to participate again very soon, and with my new computer finally giving in to the practice of photographing food, though the Luddite in me still wishes words suffice.

Meanwhile, April, first, let me say I regret overlooking the praise due to you for making ciabatta, one of my favorite breads. Your loaf looks beautiful.

Adam: Thanks for further information on rice. As for the tortelli di Crema, I indeed was referring to Anna del Conte's published recipe. I realize that I am drawn to the slightly eccentric, but I like the idea of making dishes that emerge from early courtly roots.

Alberto: Of course, your most recent meal looks beautiful. I am wondering if you have ever made polenta using buckwheat flour (what is the Italian word for that grain)? From what I understand, buckwheat was used in certain parts of Lombardia before corn came to Italy.

Nathan P: You seem to be having great success with your local wine sellers! While I haven't yet made a pilgrimage to the store most frequented by the diplomatic circles here in D.C., my principal source is rather spare in offerings from Lombardia. There is one choice of an Inferno (which of course I have to try); there may have been a Sasello, too.

Hathor: Anna del Conte, a native of Lombardia, complains about the number of recipes for osso bucco that call for tomatoes...including those by Important, Established Cookbook Writers . I beat she's got Marcella Hazan in mind since her first edition of Gastronomy of Italy includes numerous recipes by the Regina della Cucina which the second omits.

A del C explains her huffiness by saying that recipes for osso bucco appear in very early cookbooks, long before the tomato was used in Northern Italian Cooking. In other words, she's a purist.

However, her objection is implicated in some of the same debates that rage among folklorists, musicians, linguists, conservators, and anyone, really, who thinks about cultural phenomona: how do you determine what is authentic and traditional---and does it matter? Osso bucco has evolved and changed over time and now there are different ways to prepare the dish.

[Pontormo]

If someone has a recipe for mostarda di Cremona, would s/he be willing to share it through a Personal Message or here on the thread?

I would like to make a little with pears to use to stuff my tortelli on Friday. I seem to recall a discussion of mostarda somewhere here & have not had the chance to visit the Library of Congress yet.

The local Whole Foods is selling mostarda in small, exquisite jars from Mantova. While I understand why they cost $15 each, I think I would prefer not spending that much.

(If I have time, I might also try making my own marscapone, too, since I found instructions in a book devoted to Italian desserts.)

Edited to say: I jsut read through the thread devoted to mostarda di Cremonia. I am not sure if all issues were resolved, especially regarding the Essence of Mustard [senape]. So, my inquiry stands ONLY if egullet members have any new discoveries made while cooking this month.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Pontormo (log)

[hathor]

Here is a link for awhole discussion on mostardo. The kicker is going to be that senape essence.

Nice to have you back! It was quiet around here without you!

Thanks for all the debate info on osso bucco. I love those sort of discussions.