Best Big Burgers

[TheBoatMan]

One of my co-workers told me about a place in Jackson that serves a 2 pound burger Honestly, I cannot vouch for this persons standards when it comes to food, LOL. He said it's not bad but could not be more descriptive than that. He did say the place is a real hole in the wall and a biker hangout. So if you're feeling adventurous and are in the area figure I'd throw it out there for you.

CASSVILLE TAVERN

Rte. 571 & 528,

Jackson

[Steve Klc]

I just had first hand experience with a big New Jersey burger--at Kat Man Du on the Trenton waterfront where I went to see my sister sing on Saturday night. I didn't actually taste the burger, but it was huge and cheap--$5.95 or $6.95 with pickle and spicy fries. My dad has big fat fleshy hands and fingers and he needed both hands to maneuver this extra wide thick thing around. I also didn't get around to asking him if it was any good. He's had alot of burgers in his day and I probably should have asked, but it rained on us just when I had considered asking him.

In any event, I'd nominate it as a contender for you NJ big burger fans. Shameless plug alert: Go especially on a night my sister is singing--her folk rock acoustic duo is called Elaysha and here's their site:

http://www.elaysha.com/

However, you are not allowed to order the KatManDu burger medium rare--indeed, the only way you will be served a burger at KatManDu is cooked all the way through--no red no pink just gray. This has never happened to me before, though I've heard vaguely of this and admittedly don't order burgers much. Our very nice, cute, young and competent server--who kept me well-plied with Yuengling lagers and iced teas all night--mentioned something about restaurant policy and State law and I jokingly asked if we could sign a waiver in order to get the burger other than gray and she said no. With this in mind I read through this thread--and took mention of steaming, browning all the way through, griddled, and consistency, etc. but as I read through this thread I noted only one mention of a burger cooked a certain way--i.e. cooked on request to medium rare.

So--is there such a State law--and are all of you NJ burgermeisters eating these gray burgers and/or not specifying a degree of doneness when you order? I used to have a strategy in bar-food type places, like a KatManDu, even if they had a full menu, to order a medium rare burger because you could count on it coming fresh off the grill. There seemed a higher likelihood that I'd find a burger more acceptable than the crab cakes.

Am I living in a time warp and have I missed the new ground beef edict that not only is gray good it is the only way? Has this been legislated?

[Rail Paul]

There was a reg in Washington state which required burgers to be cooked to 160 degrees back when e-coli was a big concern. Dee had a big and loud argument in a restaurant when they informed her. I'm not aware of any such law in NJ, though. Many places serve burgers nice and red in the center.

Law? What law? We don need no steenking laws...

[MartyL]

There is a restaurant called "Norman's" in the German Colony neighborhood of Jerusalem (a bit far afield from New Jersey), that serves a 2.2 pound burger called the "Sumo-Burger." When I was there last, a few years ago. their biggest burger was the "Big Kahuna Burger," which was only 1.5 pounds. It was aftually quite good, and served perfectly medium-rare. They used to give you a free beer if you cleaned your plate.

[finker99]

Write to your state reperesentatives, it is in fact illegal to serve ground beef in any form not cooked to 165 degrees in the state of NJ, this law was passed about 2 or 3 years ago and it is true. In the mandated health classes for food service employees they are very specific about this. It is mostly for e coli, but ground beef is also very easily cross contaminated with just about any other bacteria walking around. That said, I tend to obey half of the law, we don't ask for temps and assume Med Well, but will cook a burger to order if asked, but this is a health code violation, so please don't turn me in. Again, this is a NJ law so if you want to bitch it would have to be to your state reps

Me, if I trust the store, my burger is Med Rare, if not, I don't order it. Some places won't because of both the liability and the law. If you think e coli isn't too bad, refer to the Jack In the Box cases from the early 90's when a few people out west were killed by undercooked ground beef that was contaminated before it even reached the restaurant where it was handled properly but just barely undercooked.

(since when do bacteria walk around)

fink

[Rail Paul]

Write to your state reperesentatives, it is in fact illegal to serve ground beef in any form not cooked to 165 degrees in the state of NJ, this law was passed about 2 or 3 years ago and it is true.

Now that you mention it, the "raw" angle was in the promotional materials for the irradiated ground beef at Wegman's, but I didn't connect it with a law in NJ.

The promo was something like "serve it as rare as you like, our meat is certified free of bacteria."

[spqr]

I like to make big stuffed burgers filled with green peppers & pineapple or (...)

Ohmygod...this is THE SINGLE WORST burger I've ever heard about!!

[Steve Klc]

Thank you for the clarification Fink--I'm now more impressed with Kat Man Du for complying with the law and thank you Paul for the irradiated ground beef angle--just another reason, as if I needed one, to appreciate what Wegmans is all about.

[rozrapp]

If I recall correctly, this law which was past after the Jack in the Box deaths included not only rules governing the cooking of beef, but also of eggs; that is, eggs served in restaurants, diners, etc., had to be cooked through! So, no more eggs scrambled runny, sunny-side up or over easy. The law did not, however, include steak, the theory being that since the meat is not ground up, as with hamburgers -- where surface e-coli and other bacteria can end up throughout the meat -- any bacteria that are on the steak's surface will be killed by the heat of being grilled, broiled, etc., and will not then get into a rare or medium rare interior. I do not think the law was ever rescinded.

[201]

I like to make big stuffed burgers filled with green peppers & pineapple or (...)

Ohmygod...this is THE SINGLE WORST burger I've ever heard about!!

Glad to offend!

By the way, "Rural west central IL" has to be the most GOD AWFUL place to live I've ever heard about. (ah... the simple joys of insulting others' tastes without first-hand experience )

edit: made it a little more personal for greater emphasis

[spqr]

By the way, "Rural west central IL" has to be the most GOD AWFUL place to live I've ever heard about.  (ah... the simple joys of insulting others' tastes without first-hand experience  )

edit: made it a little more personal for greater emphasis

Looks like we're both right then.

[Rail Paul]

We could probably open a whole thread on the worst place in which to live, although anybody who's been in the Air Force, and been stationed in Turkey has a huge head start...

They'd love to live in west central Illinois, in place of Turkey.

[Rachel Perlow]

That said, I tend to obey half of the law, we don't ask for temps and assume Med Well . . . . Me, if I trust the store, my burger is Med Rare, if not, I don't order it.

Fink - do you grind your own ground beef? I've noticed that the servers don't ask about doneness. I had a 4 oz burger at your restaurant once and even though it was cooked through, and even had a crunchy crust, the inside was still nicely juicey. So, even though it wasn't pink on the inside it was still good. Do you eat burgers? at your own place? And if so, what degree of doneness do you prefer?

Please forgive me, I know that this is a tough, loaded question, but I really am curious.

[finker99]

We do not grind our own beef at Fink's, but we buy it from one of three reputable meat suppliers, Sysco, whitch maintains a HAACP chain (HAACP is the ultimate in sanitation, with independent certification and federal inspections.) Golden Meats, who buys direct from a wholesale butcher in NYC and a local butcher who will grind our meat fresh for us. Also, ground beef is only a burger for 24 hours here, after that is used for chili or other well done purposes (we are probably going to be running a shepard's pie tonight.)

I eat my burgers Rare to MR when I don't get sidetracked and forget it until it is well done; I also usually stick to the 1/4 pounder, but I make up for meat in toppings: Bacon, Fried Onion, Blue Cheese and Cheddar cheese and russian dressing is a favorite.

Fink

Fink's Web Site

[Steve Klc]

Back to the irradiated ground beef issue and New Jersey for a minute--I just returned from my local Fresh Fields/Whole Foods Market--which regular readers may know I despise just about everything about (Long story--goes back to the fact that they store their bulk chocolate right next to the Gouda cheese)--and checked out their ground beef. Lots of warning stickers on the packages saying cook to 160 degrees for bacteria, etc. and then picked up a pamphleton "Irradiation" on the way out the door. In this "Education Series" it states:

"We believe produce and meat products should be packaged, transported and stored to retain maximum nutritional value without the use of irradiation. In addition, consumers and industry leaders have been adamant that irradiation does not comply with organic food production."

It doesn't go on to say, but I imagine it could, that "we also believe you should cook all your burgers until they are dry little briquettes or hockey pucks because of this stance."

Now, to me, it seems this provides a clear distinction in the marketplace from Wegmans--which offers irradiated meat which can be safely cooked and consumed at all levels of rareness--does it not? Have other New Jersey supermarkets come down on the Wegmans side or the Whole Foods side?

Will this affect any of your ground beef buying decisions?

And a question to Fink and Nick, though he's in SF--do you have the option of buying irradiated beef if you want to and serve it rare or medium rare--or is the NJ statute locked into a temperature and the inspectors "don't know nothing 'bout no irradiation?"

[TheBoatMan]

Now that you mention it, the "raw" angle  was in the promotional materials for the irradiated ground beef at Wegman's, but I didn't connect it with a law in NJ.

I read all the posts in the various forums here regarding Wegman's "irradiated ground beef" but has anyone actually tried it yet? Curious about how it tastes. I used to eat my burgers rare but have been successfully scared into ordering them at least medium well at restaurants. When I desire a rare burger at home, I break out the food grinder.

[shugga]

The only way you will ever get a burger in a restaurant in North

Carolina, is well done! It is a state law!

You can get your steaks rare, but anything with ground meat must be

well done. The ground beef harbors bacteria!

[Rachel Perlow]

Get the F off our NJ forum! ™

[erie1]

I eat nothing but the Wegmans meat now for burgers on the grill. Taste is fine and knowing I'm not going to come down with ecoli and being able to eat my burgers rare works for me.

I recently heard a radio remote on a PA radio station where Wegmans was having a burger cookouot outside the store nad grilling burgers to order to promote the meat.

[dodge621]

[The only way you will ever get a burger in a restaurant in North

Carolina, is well done! It is a state law!]

what is this related to. Having previously lived in NC, I have no idea why you would say this.

[Rail Paul]

Now, to me, it seems this provides a clear distinction in the marketplace from Wegmans--which offers irradiated meat which can be safely cooked and consumed at all levels of rareness--does it not?  Have other New Jersey supermarkets come down on the Wegmans side or the Whole Foods side?

Will this affect any of your ground beef buying decisions?

Steve -

I have had the Wegman's beef cooked as rare burgers on the grill, and I didn't notice any difference from other beef. It's usually priced comparably with the butcher ground beef, when the latter is not on sale.

I don't know how the commercial purveyors would address the law, I'd be surprised if there was an exception for irradiation. And, the irradiated people haven't spread enough money around to get an exception, yet.

Paul

[spqr]

My sister still lives in the western NY area, and she frequently shops at Wegman's. I emailed her to ask if she's tried the irradiated ground beef there and here is her reply:

We've had Wegman's irradiated beef twice.  Made hamburgers, and made them

medium-rare.  They were great.

I mean, shit, when you use the microwave, you're irradiating the

food--what's the big deal?

N

[tommy]

microwaving isn't the same.

[Steve Klc]

Paul and others--thank you for the Wegmans beef feedback. Since you'll be in Wegmans before I will--keep a look out for other irradiated products besides ground beef, ok? Perhaps at that point we could summarize and reintroduce this as a topic on General.

Things like spices, wheats and flours, eggs, other meats like chicken and pork, fruit and veggies could be stocked by Wegmans with the same public labeling and disclosure as with their ground beef. Also, keep an eye out for an educational pamphlet--so we can determine if their position is presented as self-servingly as Whole Foods. Their website says that, as of May 2002, the only irradiated products carried are the frozen patties, the fresh ground beef and "a few produce items in select stores."

By the way--how many other non-irradiated ground beef types are also sold at Wegmans? It seems from their website that the irradiated beef is simply an "option"--which means Wegmans, unlike Whole Foods, lets the consumer make up their own mind. Here's the link to the Wegmans irradiation page:

http://www.wegmans.com/kitchen/storage/irradiation.asp

[spqr]

microwaving isn't the same.

Maybe so, but in principle, it's not that different.