A Question For Food Writers

[BryanZ]

YOU'RE GETTING PAID??? We need to form a student food-writers union!

edited to add: Good luck in the job hunt, my friend. If you were on my coast we might be competing head-to-head. The problem is that most publications just don't take that many college-aged interns, especially since food writing isn't exactly a popular career path. Another problem is that large magazine publishers own a gamut of different magazines, from the food/wine stuff that you're interested in to Women's Home Journal and Sport Hunter's Digest. It's relatively difficult to specify in exactly which magazine you want to work within the context of a publishing conglomerate.

Edited January 24, 2006 by BryanZ (log)

[TrishCT]

My family of newspapers hires summer interns, but not for food writing, for general assignment writing (covering meetings, features).

These jobs are in high demand, and our papers can pick from the very best journalism students out there. So if you can't get a food writing job, consider applying for a job like that.

[Fat Guy]

You've already found one of the surest paths to unlocking your potential as a food writer: it's called the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. Just ask JJ Goode, who parlayed his Daily Gullet internship into an internship at Saveur and now a job at Conde Nast. Or Monica Bhide, Andy Lynes or any of the other people who started out writing online here and are now bona fide full-time professional food/travel/lifestyle writers. Send Dave Scantland ("Dave the Cook") a PM and see if he has room for you on his team.

[chefzadi]

I am currently in college, and an aspring food writer. I am sort of confused however, as to how these two things are related, and how the former will ultimately help me in the future with a career in the latter. After doing some searching on this site, I've seen a lot of different backgrounds (a lot of  lawyers, though I don't think I'll try the food writer via law school route), so I'm wondering what areas you've studied in, and if they have anything to do with your current profession.

My current plan is to study French and comparative literature - will these help me? I don't know. I do know that they interest me, and more importantly they are not math or science. I also plan on studying abroad in France, where I will undoubtedly eat a lot of good food, and hopefully get some good experience.

I've also been doing more or less weekly food stories for my school's (University of Washington) paper (www.thedaily.washington.edu), which, prior to me, had nothing except an online guide to teriyaki, pizza and thai restaurants around campus.

I look forward to hearing your replies and maybe advice as to which classes I should take next quarter!

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There is too much general food writing already. Everybody and his brother or sister wants to travel, explore and write about it. This aspect of the field is getting even more competitive because of blogs. There are bloggers who are writing in much more detail than an occassional traveler because the bloggers are living, breathing and eating a particular culture/cuisine in detail.

A 10 day trip to Libya that concludes with "everywhere there is Libyan soup" barely skims the surface. I'm thinking of a recent NYT article. It is more interesting to add some historical details. Like Libya is where the Magrheb and the Middle East meet in North Africa. The briks they make are different from Algerian and Tunisian briks. And maybe this is because of stronger Italian influences in Libya. There could have been much more added to the article with just a little more research. The internet is here, you can find a highly intelligent native informant just about anywhere.

Food studies is an emerging as an academic discipline. This is a HUGE field that is growing rapidly and I do not believe there are enough interested or qualified writers YET. The field involves understanding multiple disciplines. It is exciting and it is taking food writing to the next level. If you choose the academic route to food writing you can still always write recreational pieces, but you will have an edge.

Stay in school. If I didn't come from a poor working class family I would have gone to University and Culinary school. Yes, I did complete culinary school in Paris. I am currently a chef instructor.

Hope I didn't piss anybody off with this post.

[jkonick]

BryanZ: I do get paid, however I don't get credit. You probably do, which is why you don't get paid. That doesn't mean we can't start a union though to get both money AND credit.

Fat Guy: You're definitely right! I don't post too much on here but I read constantly (it's a great procrastination tool) and pick up all sorts of info. Well, this thread is a great example of that. The internet can definitely be a great thing in terms of networking and meeting people via message boards like this.

Edited January 24, 2006 by jkonick (log)

[MarketStEl]

Here's my 2 sense. Although people will give me a bunch of flack for saying this....

Simply put. QUIT SCHOOL! There is no substitution for experience. Real Life University is the key. Read, Write, Travel, Cook. I think learning to cook is a great idea for food writers. It will make it easier to understand what is really going on with the food. Why it may taste a certain way. So you can "get it".

[...]

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Ouch. Sorry, but yes - you will get some flack for saying this.

First of all, the question is about learning to write about food, not simply learning about "getting it" or "finding why it may taste a certain way". There is more to writing than "getting it".

In your post alone, there are enough spelling and grammar mistakes to make any knowledgeable reader grimace. . .and unfortunately they are not the sort of "mistakes" that are simple to make. The mistakes show ignorance about "how to write".

Did you take English classes at UCLA? What were your grades?

A fair question, and I agree with the substance of what you say.

However: As far as the grammar and spelling go, even though it is important to know how to spell and the rules of grammar and usage--one of my favorite sayings is, "In order to break the rules properly, you must first know what they are"--there's a reason they have editors. And every good writer needs one. I've heard anecdotes about people who really do have interesting things to say and interesting ways of saying them, but apparently very little they learned in high school grammar classes stuck to them. These people's prose usually needs major patchwork to get it fit to print.

Have YOU found a "great author" to mentor YOU? Can you give us an example of how you know it possible and it seems perhaps even probable that "great authors" (who do have their own lives to lead, books to write, and income to make) will merrily find the time to mentor a "young ambitious person"?

One of the benefits and banes of freelancing is that you can make time for just about anything you want. I know that I treasured the letter I received from the author of my favorite books in fifth grade, and while that may not count as "mentoring," it played no small role in my ultimate choice of career. I wouldn't consider myself a "great author," but--pardon my immodesty in advance--I am one of the best writers I know, and were someone to approach me for advice, tips, or commiseration, I would certainly find some time to share them. Isn't that exactly what's happening in this thread?

A few other comments: While master's degrees are increasingly required items for consideration for plum jobs, journalism is still one of those fields where you can get started on your way to the top without one. Ultimately, you will be judged on the accuracy, fairness, and reader appeal of what you write, and that requires first that you write for publication. But you're already well on your way there.

BTW, my own credentials as a food writer are sparse, consisting overwhelmingly of posts on this forum and the occasional short item for Philadelphia Style; when it comes to this subject, I'm as much of a novice as you are. The stuff I get paid for deals more often with cities and the built environment than it does food and cooking, but I am an eclectic writer with an interest in many things. Observe what's going on around you, ask lots of questions, taste what's on your plate, and you will be fine.

One more thing: As with so much else in life, a sense of humor helps.

[Carrot Top]

It is possible that I wrote strongly about this issue, taking it slightly aside from the original question, but it seemed to me that to give the answer "Quit school" was not perhaps centered within the positive range of ideas for becoming a food writer, either - particularly as there was some experience being gained writing AT the school in this situation.

My apologies if I over-reacted, but there are some things in life that can be unfortunate facts if ignored, and the fact is that sometime in some people's lives, they *may* actually need to find income through being employed by someone else - and the idea of saying "I've got talent" is not as good as the idea of saying "I've got talent; education in a traditionally acceptable form; and experience."

This may not be all that important "right now" for the young woman asking the original question, but *if* she is ever out on the"job market" when she is say. . .35 or 45. . .competing with other folk for the same job. . .these things will be points in her favor.

As for the punctuation notion and the grammar flammar, I totally agree.

But on the other hand, I do like to see someone write about something that it does seem they have some knowledge of, rather than just shooting off their mouths.

That, is an unfortunate pet peeve of mine, and it makes me lose my own smile too often.

The only thing I've read that every single authority on writing says to do to be successful that is across-the-board "the same" is WRITE.

And yes, humor is wonderful. I enjoy yours often at eG, Sandy.

Sometimes humor in the form of parody can be "unhelpful", though, (to the writer) if someone reading it takes it in a serious form or if the reader finds things in it that perhaps are not "really" there (to the majority of readers) but only to the reader who for whatever reason may become angry at these perceived mal-intents.

That's the only problem with writing humor.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Carrot Top (log)

[FabulousFoodBabe]

There is too much general food writing already. Everybody and his brother or sister wants to travel, explore and write about it. This aspect of the field is getting even more competitive because of blogs. There are bloggers who are writing in much more detail than an occassional traveler because the bloggers are living, breathing and eating a particular culture/cuisine in detail. [-snip-]

Stay in school. If I didn't come from a poor working class family I would have gone to University and Culinary school. Yes, I did complete culinary school in Paris. I am currently a chef instructor.[-snip again-]

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Yes, yes, YES! Please remember, too, that blogging and writing for a publication are pretty different. Bloggers can just ramble on; their audience is who(m?)ever they decide. They've got no editors, no copy interns trying to make their mark, no proofreaders, and no space limit.

Like Zadi, I come from a poor working-class family; women with a talent in the kitchen were declared future housewives and no one thought I needed education past learning from Grandma. Ahem! (I'm a writer, avocational instructor, wifey-type and have patched together a university education as we moved all around the country ... and then went to CIA and learned that i KNEW NOTHING! )

Last, as someone said when Tiger Woods turned pro: It all changes when you do it for money.

[Ptipois]

A lot of valuable advice has been given, but here's mine:

- Eat, travel, taste, listen, etc.

- Know, or learn, how to cook. (Most important. I don't understand why some people seem to consider this optional).

- Learn wine, seriously.

- Get a good level of academic culture and study some geography if you have an opportunity.

- Don't go to journalism school if you want to develop a style.

- Learn to write, maybe, but deep down I don't believe in this. Either you have a potential to be a writer or you don't. No writing classes will ever give it to you if you don't. On the other hand, your writing skills and style must be developed. Indeed they'll never stop developing. But I don't believe on patterns and formulas. At first you may think that they might get you more jobs, but they won't, for there will be thousands of aspiring writers out there doing exactly the same thing as you. A good method for improving your writing: write un-self-consciously, then trim as many adjectives and adverbs as you can. And zap the metaphors unless they're really funny. That's a good start.

- Read a lot of non-food literature, namely: 1) Classical literature and 2) Essays on geography, ethnology, history.

- Read some food literature but not too much of it. Sometimes it's better not to know what others are doing. On the other hand, the old models (I mean the classics) are never intimidating or discouraging.

- Know your ingredients and stay as open as possible: don't establish a hierarchy in styles and levels of cuisine.

- Learn at least one foreign language.

- Get decently paid. Set the standards to what they should be. This is good for you and for the whole trade.

- If possible, when you can begin to afford it, get an agent.

[MarketStEl]

Last, as someone said when Tiger Woods turned pro:  It all changes when you do it for money.

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I believe it was no less an essayist and writer than Samuel Johnson who once said, "None but a blockhead ever wrote except for money."

Of course, by participating on these boards, I am violating Johnson's rule every day.

- Don't go to journalism school if you want to develop a style.

Seconded.

I got the following advice from the managing editor of The Kansas City Star, where I interned before going to college in 1976:

"You already know how to write news stories. Major in something you want to write about."

And so I majored in political science. Of all the articles I've written for pay, I'd say about 15 percent have been about politics.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Stay in school. Education -- and experience at University -- is part of life experience just as much as travel and eating and reading is. You can never learn enough about various diverse topics; you will be surprised what arcane bit will benefit you later.

I got both a Bachelors and Masters in Fine Art BEFORE I went to cooking school. In between semesters and on breaks, I traveled. None of it is ever wasted because you never know where you are going to find your next best story.

Don't give up and don't expect to make a great living. There is little or no money in the profession so you do it because you love it, not because you think you are going to be able to make ends-meet. That is why an education is beneficial; you will need to be able to pay rent and survive and being a food writer will hardly be the ticket to fame OR fortune.

[russ parsons]

i'm asked this question all the time and i have to confess that my answer varies with the wind. the simple truth is that none of the best food writers i know came to their position by the same route. everyone's got a different story and each is valid. i guess if there was a constant, it would be the obvious: write as much as you can; read as much as you can; eat as much as you can; and, perhaps most important, care as much as you can--there is no such thing as "just another story."

practically speaking, j-school is not the ultimate answer, but it is a strong possibility. i confess that i hardly took any j courses after my freshman year, but i was lucky enough to be working full time for the local paper by then. reporting skills are more and more scarce and more and more essential--possibly even more so than culinary training (you don't have to have good knife skills to write a good story; you do have to know how to structure a news lead). we have a gracious plenty (and more) of people who can write beautiful sentences about the scent of a tangerine peel drying on a radiator. what food writing needs more of is writers who can explain to their readers the major shifts that are occuring in farms, markets and kitchens.

this is not to say that culinary training is not necessary--if you have the writing and reporting skills, a little formal training can lift you to the next level. i hardly see that cia is necessary, though, and i think this is borne out by the many interns i've worked with from the various culinary schools. life as a writer is much different than life on the line--both in terms of technique and attitude.

[chefzadi]

What ptipois said and research, research, research...

Food doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is related to history, politics, economics, art, literature...

Not exactly related. But I really wish people would stop writing the same crap in English about North African and French food again and again. Don't bother recycling the same bits of information. There are lots of people who can help you research.

[BryanZ]

BryanZ: I do get paid, however I don't get credit. You probably do, which is why you don't get paid. That doesn't mean we can't start a union though to get both money AND credit.

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Ha, credit, yeah right! Unfortunately we don't get credit for working on the newspaper, or any other student organization for that matter, nor do we even have a journalism major. So I guess it really sucks for those kids who want to go into journalism but aren't getting any official recognition for it.

I think the people who are saying "get paid" are somewhat jaded. It may help keep wages high, but that's about it. It's not likely that many local newspapers are going to pay an 18-20 year old writer all that well. I'd say get whatever experience you can, beg, plead, all that jazz, and if you're good you'll eventually get somewhere.

[Ptipois]

What ptipois said and research, research, research...

Food doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is related to history, politics, economics, art, literature...

Not exactly related. But I really wish people would stop writing the same crap in English about North African and French food again and again. Don't bother recycling the same bits of information. There are lots of people who can help you research.

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I heartily agree.

I insist on geography because it's a discipline that requires you to establish links and connections between all phenomenons instead of studying each one separately. It does put a lot of stress on daily life and habits, and particularly on food and wine, as a result of agriculture, and agriculture as a result of soil, climate, etc. Studying geography at La Sorbonne was the greatest preparation to food writing I could ever dream of. Of course, there were other factors, but now I believe this was the strongest influence.

[shelora]

An important building block for food writing, I believe, is experience working in a restaurant. Part time, full time, front of house or in the kitchen. Get to know the daily, back breaking hard work that goes into feeding the masses.

Another important point, be curious. Travel, eat - fearlessly - cook, read and write about your experiences.

And like some else said up thread, "don't quit your day job."

Many people entertain romantic notions about being a food writer, like you eat for free in restaurants. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[russ parsons]

An important building block for food writing, I believe, is experience working in a restaurant.    Part time, full time, front of house or in the kitchen. Get to know the daily, back breaking hard work that goes into feeding the masses.

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i have to disagree with this. restaurant cooking has very little to do with home cooking, which is what most food writers write about. in fact, in general, i think one of the biggest shortcomings of food writing today is an overemphasis on a select group of professional chefs. there is a much bigger world out there.

now if you're talking about restaurant criticism, which is a slightly different field, then perhaps i can see the benefits of a little time on the line.

[Carolyn Tillie]

An important building block for food writing, I believe, is experience working in a restaurant.    Part time, full time, front of house or in the kitchen. Get to know the daily, back breaking hard work that goes into feeding the masses.

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i have to disagree with this. restaurant cooking has very little to do with home cooking, which is what most food writers write about. in fact, in general, i think one of the biggest shortcomings of food writing today is an overemphasis on a select group of professional chefs. there is a much bigger world out there.

now if you're talking about restaurant criticism, which is a slightly different field, then perhaps i can see the benefits of a little time on the line.

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I have to agree with Russ -- one could extend the argument that one should also work as a field-hand in farm or dairy, spend time in a butchery, or as a service agent in corporate prep-centers from which the bulk of our food originates. A restaurant is only one outlet for the greater picture of food in our culture. Working in a restaurant is only one facet of that larger picture which we food writers embrace.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Carolyn Tillie (log)

[Michael Ruhlman]

not that i disagree with the august russ parsons, but learning to cook and actually working a line for a shit paycheck (and baby bearing health bennies) was the making of me. it's what enabled me to write the french laundry cookbook, mainly because it gave me a common footing with keller and his brigade. i'd have written a completely different book had i not been through skills classes with michael pardus or worked a grill station for seven short battle-shocked days fearing Dan Turgeon.

Must you have a culinary ed or line cook or wait staff experience, no. but i sure wish more of the journalists out there did. Sage Parsons has gotten by more than fine without it. but he's been at this, what, some fifty years now, he knows what he's talking about. getting a culinary ed or working for six month at a really good restaurant, because time happens differently in such circs, can build up a lot of knowledge in a short time, a lot faster than old-fashioned legwork.

[Daniel Rogov]

First thing to realize is that food is far more than a series of ingredients that enter our mouths and later exit our bodies in other ways. To paraphrase Brillat-Savarin - animals eat, men and women dine and men and women of good taste dine well.

Second thing to realize is that whatever experience you gather in dining, reading, exploring, traveling, whatever, food is inseparable from the history, psychology, anthropology, sociology and cultural-religious beliefs of human beings. We are, for example,the only animals that eat when we are not hungry and we do that for a multitude of reasons. Understand that and you're on your way to being one of the not very many writers that wll stand out from the crowd. Don't understand that and you may write a dozen or more books, be widely published and simply be one of the masses.

Indeed, study languages, but study also the meaning of those languages in their social and cultural context, especially in this case of how those relate to culinary habits. As to journalism courses...well, I'm a skeptic. A.J. Liebling never took or gave a course in journalism. Neither did Hemingway. And certainly Curnonsky never did.........

[Bux]

I'm going to agree with Russ regarding the theory that no two food writers seem to have arrived by the same route, but disagree in regard to working in a restaurant kitchen. I've not worked in a professional kitchen, but both my daughter and son-in-law have and and the result is an intense education that doesn't come just from cooking alone by the best books, or going to classes and lectures. I also rate working in a kitchen as more intense that going to culinary school, although a good education will put you in a position to learn faster on the job. It's not that one has to work in a kitchen, I don't think there's one road for all future food writers, but I do see the experience as invaluable and intense. You can learn more in a short time in a short time than in any other environment. This, of course, is not to say that some people will learn less on the job than others will reading a book sitting in a comfy chair. We all have our own limits and abilities.

[russ parsons]

far be it from me to dispute michael ruhlman, wet behind the ears though he may be. but i still argue that the restaurant is but one venue for food and that we have a sufficiency of writers who cover that aspect. i think carolyn is absolutely right--get a little experience on a farm, or dairy, or behind the counter at a good wine shop or cheese store. learn to cut up meat for god's sake, or fillet fish. something besides work a saute station.

and a couple of corrections, i have only been doing this for 30 years (it just seems like 50 to my readers). and, in fact, i do have some line experience, though just part-time--when i was young and crazy about food, i worked lunch shifts and dinner prep three days a week for a year at a friend's restaurant (in addition to my newspaper job). it was great experience--we did our own butchering (from primal cuts), sausage-making and baking. still, i don't think it was as critical to my career as being a general news reporter and learning how to cover a story.

[goldie]

One point that has been lightly touched on, but should not be overlooked, is networking. I'm not a food writer (although I could see myself doing that someday), however I was a job placement counselor for a college. It is very important to get to know people working in the field you are interested in. There are several ways of doing this: joining a trade organization, find out where people are hanging out and going there, attending lectures or forums and asking questions, becoming a regular at an establishment. Whether you are hanging with chefs or food writers or purveyers you will be learning. Obviously, ask a lot of questions and also (perhaps not as obvious) remain humble. Different people can offer different things.

I wish you the best of luck. I think you are off to a good start and certainly the information others have posted will be quite beneficial.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

seven short battle-shocked days fearing Dan Turgeon.

Dammit, where is the shrieking, still-quaking smilie? WHERE, dammit? (I still hear his voice when I do pate en croute.)

Must you have a culinary ed or line cook or wait staff experience, no.  but i sure wish more of the journalists out there did.  Sage Parsons has gotten by more than fine without it.  but he's been at this, what, some fifty years now, he knows what he's talking about.  getting a culinary ed or working for six month at a really good restaurant, because time happens differently in such circs, can build up a lot of knowledge in a short time, a lot faster than old-fashioned legwork.

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In that FCI course I took, written about on another thread, we had Sam Sifton (former Times dining ed.) speak to our class. He said working in a restaurant or as a cook wasn't really necessary. Dean Richman said the same, for various reasons. But everyone who has done both agrees with what Mr. Ruhlmann said right here.

I think you can write about stuff. Or, you can 'get' it. It makes a real difference to the readers, and to the people you're writing about. I've found that the people you're covering respect that you've done what it takes to understand them. And that can be pretty nice.

[shelora]

An important building block for food writing, I believe, is experience working in a restaurant.    Part time, full time, front of house or in the kitchen. Get to know the daily, back breaking hard work that goes into feeding the masses.

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i have to disagree with this. restaurant cooking has very little to do with home cooking, which is what most food writers write about. in fact, in general, i think one of the biggest shortcomings of food writing today is an overemphasis on a select group of professional chefs. there is a much bigger world out there.

now if you're talking about restaurant criticism, which is a slightly different field, then perhaps i can see the benefits of a little time on the line.

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I have to agree with Russ -- one could extend the argument that one should also work as a field-hand in farm or dairy, spend time in a butchery, or as a service agent in corporate prep-centers from which the bulk of our food originates. A restaurant is only one outlet for the greater picture of food in our culture. Working in a restaurant is only one facet of that larger picture which we food writers embrace.

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An excellent and very important point Caroline. I totally agree on extending ones experience out to the farmer's field or the corporate centres. There are so many aspects of our food culture that need to be investigated.

Stories are everywhere.