How can someone break into the restaurant industry

[cchen]

Hello,

Today I found out I've been admitted to Columbia Business School.

One of my biggest passions is food, and I'd like to one day own my own restaurant. Before that however, I'd be interested in working for a group like Union Square Hospitality Group or the like in learning about restaurant business development. I've searched extensively online and have talked to many people I know who work in kitchens but no one really knows how to get in on the business side of things.

Do you any of you eGulleters have any experience with this, or know what I can do or who I can talk to??

[BryanZ]

Not to highjack this thread at all, but I was wondering the same thing. The high-end business side of restaurant development seems to be somewhat elusive.

Does USHG, China Grill Management, or B.R. Guest hire summer interns or something of that nature?

[Vadouvan]

First Congratulations.

The best restaurant specific management program is at Cornell University.

Outside of that, I would think a graduate degree in business at least puts you on a higher academic scale that 95% of people in the restaurant business. The degree is great if you want to end up CFO or Director of operations of multi restautant entities such as China Grill Management or Starr Restaurant Organization Ect ect. If your ultimate goal is just to manage your own place someday, it isnt that complicated in the sense that its something you learn by immersion.

Ultimately you are going to have to get a job somewhere and just learn the details of what your responsibilities are. As you move to better places, those details get refined. A little server experience isnt a bad idea so you can see the other side of the coin as far as how "managers" come across to employees in differing styles. Although, most people seek "experienced" managers, the truth is there isnt enough skilled sensible people in the industry who are not drug addicts so odds of getting a job are quite excellent as most people will train you to the specifics of that operation.

Seriously I dont mean to make it sound so easy but if you can figure out excel spreadsheets and live through "group dynamics" classes, you can run a POS system and a restaurant.

Just go get a job if you have the time. The hours are not the best but it really is the best way to learn.

[KatieLoeb]

First Congratulations.

The best restaurant specific management program is at Cornell University.

Outside of that, I would think a graduate degree in business at least puts you on a higher academic scale that 95% of people in the restaurant business. The degree is great if you want to end up CFO or Director of operations of multi restautant entities such as China Grill Management or Starr Restaurant Organization Ect ect. If your ultimate goal is just to manage your own place someday, it isnt that complicated in the sense that its something you learn by immersion.

Ultimately you are going to have to get a job somewhere and just learn the details of what your responsibilities are. As you move to better places, those details get refined. A little server experience isnt a bad idea so you can see the other side of the coin as far as how "managers" come across to employees in differing styles. Although, most people seek "experienced" managers, the truth is there isnt enough skilled sensible people in the industry who are not drug addicts so  odds of getting a job are quite excellent as most people will train you to the specifics of that operation.

Seriously I dont mean to make it sound so easy but if you can figure out excel spreadsheets and live through "group dynamics" classes, you can run a POS system and a restaurant.

Just go get a job if you have the time. The hours are not the best but it really is the best way to learn.

←

It's not quite as easy as that, but having a degree is a good start. Certainly it will prepare you to work for an organization like China Grill Management, Lettuce Entertain You or whomever. But honestly, most of those organizations promote from within. Just having the Management background of understanding the bottom line of the bigger picture of Food Sales, Liquor Sales, Payroll, Operating Expenses and Non-Operating Expenses will put you in a good spot. Learning to produce and interpret a P&L statement is great practice for virtually any industry.

I learned by working my way up from Bookkeeper to Office Manager to Beverage Director to Controller. Knowing how and why items get expensed the way they do will make everything come into clearer focus. Running one revenue producing department will give you the perspective on incoming cash flow and then having to really see the big picture and tie both those things together will make it all come into focus.

I had the good fortune/misfortune of being Controller while we were working out of a bankruptcy. You really learn how to spin gold out of straw in those circumstances and it certainly made me a much better (read: Cost Conscious) manager.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Do you any of you eGulleters have any experience with this, or know what I can do or who I can talk to??

←

Congratulations! Great school -- you worked hard to get in. A different kind of hard than in the restaurant business. All the people I know who work in management came up through the ranks, and your having an MBA will put you academically over most of the people ... who've gotten thier "MBAs" via experience, after a four-year degree. And too many smart, educated people have failed in the industry because they just don't get it.

Do you have any experience working in a restaurant? If you don't, get some -- just trail if that's all you can manage -- bus, chop vegetables, wait tables, anything you can. Having a passion for food is part of it. Restaurant work is not for the faint of heart -- you may hate it.

Columbia's placement people may have a line on this -- have you talked to them?

[raxelita]

USHG is definitely a great place to start. They have a philosophy of hiring people with little to no experience, just based on their personality and willingness to learn. You could take two approaches: one, start low in the office, even working reservations, and show your mettle; two: work as a server. If you are good, project a positive attitude, and show a desire to climb, you'll be surprised at how fast you move up.

The BLT restaurants have a similar setup--today pretty much all of their managers are promoted former servers.

If you do have solid NY restaurant experience already, then I'd suggest applying as a floor manager or office manager and go from there.

[mikeycook]

You may also think about taking the ICE (Institute of Culinary Education) Culinary Management program, although I am sure your Columbia workload will be substantial on its own. However, I know people who have taken the management program while taking culinary and worked it out, so you never know. We had a gentleman who was a manager at Blue Smoke speak to us and he was part of the management program at one point, so I guess that's one way in to USHG (and other groups).

Edited December 15, 2005 by mikeycook (log)

[tb86]

think about checking out the ritz or the four seasons managment training programs they recruit alot of no experience candidates , i know it isnt the the best source for nyc experience .I had several freinds enter thier program when we graduated from cia. Or try the good old unpaid stagiere position at at top end places like daniel, le bernardin, JG. I think you would be suprised at how often these "jobs" turn into paying positions. Be open minded, the more familiar you are with all jobs in the biz, dish washing, prep cooking, working the line, waiting, bussing , bartending accounting ect. the better off you will be in the long run. Anybody that has spent time in the buisness will tell you that in a pinch you better be prepared to "become" the plummer", electrician, refrigerator repair guy, line cook , you get the idea................. but remember to have fun, you have a love for food and restaurants thats why you got into it rember that and you'll be ok.

good luck

[cchen]

Thanks for all the great replies.

However, I am a bit confused. I do understand that to get into the restaurant business I have to start at the bottom. Many of you have recommended getting into restaurant management, but that is not what I'm interested in.

Lets say USHG wants to open a new restaurant. Danny Meyer must have a team (not necessarily MBA's) of business people who are able to evaluate the costs and return of his various ideas, look at real estate financing, etc etc. Thats the kind of role I want. I do not think that USHG has its former restaurant managers looking these kinds of things....

[mikeycook]

I can't speak for others, but my culinary management program was more about starting a restaurant from scratch than it was about being a manager in a restaurant (which I have no interest in). It focused heavily on the financials of a restaurant, including real estate, food costs, hiring contractors and employee, etc. The program was really structured around building a strong business plan.

Perhaps you would be able to get the type of job you seek without such a degree, but I know one gentleman in the program who got the type of job you are describing with the group that opened Lever House (he also had a strong business background, but the degree helped get him the interview and the job). I am not suggesting you start out as an assistant manager in a USHG restaurant, but some sort of culinary education might help you get your foot in the door when a position opens (especially if you are competing with other MBAs). Who would you rather hire? An MBA or an MBA with a decent knowledge of restaurant financials?

Edited December 16, 2005 by mikeycook (log)

[akwa]

if you are serious about high end management in hotel restaurant i would suggest trying to take some time abroad at a swiss hotel school

i think it illustrates the lack of structure in this country for the many intelligent people who could pursue a career in hospitality if there was any clear direction, training, and apprenticeship system, just dont know where to start.

to see elite training in hospitality i still think the swiss grand ecoles are superior. the training includes actual operational experience, and the placement is traditionally at the superior properties around the world.

that said peace and properity only generated the cuckoo clock, and if you are persistent and tenacious enough a foot in the door at a major nyc group could be enough. i would suggest trying tfl/perse/bouchon for ultra high end dining management; batali/bastianich for a large range of price points; or in my opinion, the most exciting standardized restaurant in the world: mcdonalds.

call me for a free externship, i need the help

best regards

[KatieLoeb]

Thanks for all the great replies.

However, I am a bit confused. I do understand that to get into the restaurant business I have to start at the bottom. Many of you have recommended getting into restaurant management, but that is not what I'm interested in.

Lets say USHG wants to open a new restaurant. Danny Meyer must have a team (not necessarily MBA's) of business people who are able to evaluate the costs and return of his various ideas, look at real estate financing, etc etc. Thats the kind of role I want. I do not think that USHG has its former restaurant managers looking these kinds of things....

←

He may outsource that to a consulting firm, in which case you need to find out who they are. Or more likely is he does that himself with his CFO and COO. Maybe you should concentrate on finding out the names of the Finance and Operations Directors of all of the larger restaurant groups and send your resumes directly to them.

They're still going to ask you if you've ever worked in a restaurant though. It's not like manufacturing widgets or working in a bank. The MBA is pretty useless with no practical knowledge of how the place functions. And the pay scale sucks. With an MBA from Columbia you could make six figures. Why on earth would you want to work in restaurants for no money and no benefits???

[cchen]

With an MBA from Columbia you could make six figures.  Why on earth would you want to work in restaurants for no money and no benefits???

←

I can easily make six figures..... doing something I hate. When you have a passion for something (food), and work hard at it, I truly believe that success will follow.

[KatieLoeb]

With an MBA from Columbia you could make six figures.  Why on earth would you want to work in restaurants for no money and no benefits???

←

I can easily make six figures..... doing something I hate. When you have a passion for something (food), and work hard at it, I truly believe that success will follow.

←

That's why I do it too. Just warning you before you've sunk as many years in as I have...

[tetsujustin]

Thanks for all the great replies.

However, I am a bit confused. I do understand that to get into the restaurant business I have to start at the bottom. Many of you have recommended getting into restaurant management, but that is not what I'm interested in.

Lets say USHG wants to open a new restaurant. Danny Meyer must have a team (not necessarily MBA's) of business people who are able to evaluate the costs and return of his various ideas, look at real estate financing, etc etc. Thats the kind of role I want. I do not think that USHG has its former restaurant managers looking these kinds of things....

←

Though I understand where you are coming from, I must also also point out that even though you don't want to be a part of the actual restaurant in the front or back of the house staff, it is essential that you understand the inner workings of a restaurant to really understand some of the reasonings behind cost evaluation and control, real estate financing, working with and working out concepts and ideas and so on and so forth. So even if you're not looking to wait tables or cook, I do suggest you still do some of it just to know the "hows" and "whys" of what needs to be done with a concept.

Just to point out, Danny Meyer was a maitre 'd before he ever opened up a place, Drew Nieporent worked in a management position at Tavern on the Green before he even thought about opening up his own doors.

I'm not sure if Jeffery Chowdorow ever worked in a restaurant before opening up the first China Grill, but he may be a very special case. Though it's not unheard of for people to to jump into the restaurant industry cold turkey, I really suggest working at a few places first before inquiring about corporate jobs for a multi-unit company.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

With an MBA from Columbia you could make six figures.  Why on earth would you want to work in restaurants for no money and no benefits???

←

I can easily make six figures..... doing something I hate. When you have a passion for something (food), and work hard at it, I truly believe that success will follow.

←

That's absolutely right. But success in the restaurant business is different than in other industries. There's a lot that your success depends on, that it's nearly impossible to control. And it takes a long, long time for the financial success to catch up to you. The city is full of really great chefs that make very little money, who've been at it for a long time.

And at the risk of being yelled at here: are you male or female?

[cchen]

I am a male, 21 yrs old. My ultimate goal is to open my own restaurant as well as a bakery. I plan on starting business plans for these two ventures in b-school. I also have a few finance related venture ideas. My end goal is to own my own restaurant, but I figured that having business development experience at a larger restaurant group might help.

[KatieLoeb]

cchen:

I still don't see where you've stated any actual restaurant experience, even being a busboy during summer vacation in high school. Since you are still rather young, I'd strongly suggest getting a part-time job in a restaurant in the near future and asking to be cross-trained in various functions. It will be an invaluable learning experience for you that no academic or even industry related administrative/internship experience will be able to replace.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

cchen:

I still don't see where you've stated any actual restaurant experience, even being a busboy during summer vacation in high school.  Since you are still rather young, I'd strongly suggest getting a part-time job in a restaurant in the near future and asking to be cross-trained in various functions.  It will be an invaluable learning experience for you that no academic or even industry related administrative/internship experience will be able to replace.

←

What KatieLoeb said (and said very well).

If your ultimate goal is to own a restaurant, please don't underestimate how many people will take advantage of a person who is owning a place and running it, without having done the work. Any small-business owner can tell you some hair-raising stories (don't worry, I try to block them out). And a lot of venture capitalists and banks refuse to finance restaurants ... the ones who do want proof that the person has an idea of what they're doing. (I know this from personal experience.) Heck, even your insurance rates will be lower if the owner knows what's going on!

Partners are a different story ... oy.

Edited December 19, 2005 by FabulousFoodBabe (log)

[mikeycook]

cchen:

I still don't see where you've stated any actual restaurant experience, even being a busboy during summer vacation in high school.  Since you are still rather young, I'd strongly suggest getting a part-time job in a restaurant in the near future and asking to be cross-trained in various functions.  It will be an invaluable learning experience for you that no academic or even industry related administrative/internship experience will be able to replace.

←

I completely agree with this.

Just remember, the most important thing that any venture capitalist looks for is a strong management team (in this case, people who have experience running restaurants). Of course they will want a good business plan with strong financials, but venture capitalists invest in people. Few venture capitalists would invest in a technology company if the people involved didn't have a extensive experience in the technology and the industries it is being sold into. Same holds true of restaurants (although, to the other point, many venture capitalists will not invest in restaurants anyway).

Now, of course, you can hire those people, but you will have to give up a considerable piece of the action to get the types of names that will attract venture capital.

[TAPrice]

Just remember, the most important thing that any venture capitalist looks for is a strong management team (in this case, people who have experience running restaurants).  Of course they will want a good business plan with strong financials, but venture capitalists invest in people.  Few venture capitalists would invest in a technology company if the people involved didn't have a extensive experience in the technology and the industries it is being sold into.  Same holds true of restaurants (although, to the other point, many venture capitalists will not invest in restaurants anyway).

←

Ok, this is off topic, I know, but I have to disagree with Mikeycook about venture capitalists. Most early stage VCs aren't looking for management or experience. They just want a good idea that can sell. The early stage VC brings the experience and installs their own experienced people in management.

I can't imagine, however, who invests in restaurants. It's got to be a financially risky proposition and growth prospects are extremely limited, unless it's a chain concept.

Edited December 19, 2005 by TAPrice (log)

[mikeycook]

Just remember, the most important thing that any venture capitalist looks for is a strong management team (in this case, people who have experience running restaurants).  Of course they will want a good business plan with strong financials, but venture capitalists invest in people.  Few venture capitalists would invest in a technology company if the people involved didn't have a extensive experience in the technology and the industries it is being sold into.  Same holds true of restaurants (although, to the other point, many venture capitalists will not invest in restaurants anyway).

←

Ok, this is off topic, I know, but I have to disagree with Mikeycook about venture capitalists. Most early stage VCs aren't looking for management or experience. They just want a good idea that can sell. The early stage VC brings the experience and installs their own experienced people in management.

I can't imagine, however, who invests in restaurants. It's got to be a financially risky proposition and growth prospects are extremely limited, unless it's a chain concept.

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Well, I won't disagree with this exactly, but let me clarify my point.

Most venture capitalists want to install as much of the management team as they can. After all, it's their money and they want as many people as they trust looking over the business as possible. If all you come to them with is an idea, that is exactly what they will do. And you, with the idea, will probably come away with very little... very little equity and very little control over your business. And, if you disagree with how the business is operated, you may find yourself marginalized or removed from your business altogether. This is not what most people who want to run their own business want to have happen and is probably the biggest negative to the venture capital process (unless you are lucky enough to find an angel investor).

If you want to benefit the most from your business financially and, particularly, if you want to be in control of your own business, it is important to bring your own qualified people to the table (people you know and trust), ideally, to have extensive experience yourself. No VC will allow someone with no experience to hold a key position in a business they are funding (unless they are crazy). You will never get 100% control from a VC, but you will likely get close to 0% control if you do not bring your own qualified people to the table and are not qualified yourself. Now, there are venture capitalists who will not want you to have your own management team no matter how qualified, but you should ask yourself whether you want to do business with them.

Edited December 19, 2005 by mikeycook (log)

[TAPrice]

Well, I won't disagree with this exactly, but let me clarify my point.

And now I agree with Mikeycook.

I almost added a similar clarification to my original response (i.e. the less a start-up brings to the table in money and human capital, the more the VCs get to control the company). My view may be skewed by the fact that many VCs I've spoken with fund ideas spun off of university research.

I still wonder who invests in restaurants. The higher profile places (and I'm thinking of shiny restaurants in major metropolitan areas) strike me as small businesses with extremely high start-up costs. Is there a formal way to raise money? Do established restaurant groups have a pool of investors that they approach for funds?

[Mayhaw Man]

Ok, this is off topic, I know, but I have to disagree with Mikeycook about venture capitalists. Most early stage VCs aren't looking for management or experience. They just want a good idea that can sell. The early stage VC brings the experience and installs their own experienced people in management.

I can't imagine, however, who invests in restaurants. It's got to be a financially risky proposition and growth prospects are extremely limited, unless it's a chain concept.

←

My experience (and it's reasonably broad) with this is that guys who back restaurants are generally specialists in this kind of investment and often know as much about what is about to happen as the group who is pitching. Usually, more often than not, they are looking for a track record, a location, and a solid concept that they can all get behind. The track record is probably more important than anything else. People in the business who have made money, solidly and steadily, are much more likely to find capital easily than someone who is looking to do a first time start up. Also, if the person shopping for investors is putting up cash, as opposed to just offering to run the place for a piece of the deal, it will be much easier to find people willing to talk-as putting your money where your mouth is still is a great way to prove that you are going to give it your last breath shot.

And there is lots of money for this out there, but what you will find, like most things, is that them that has, gets more. It's a tough racket, lots of failure, and restaurant investing can be very attractive, but even with the most seasoned operator on board, there is a huge amount of risk.

[cchen]

Let me just interject that financing is not really a huge issue. I've pitched my restaurant and bakery ideas to the parents of some of my classmates (CEO level people) and they are very interested. My father, an HBS grad, is also well connected within the VC industry.

Right now for me, I'm focusing more on learning more about restaurant operations.

Edited December 20, 2005 by cchen (log)