Stock

[Soup]

The weather's cold and I've been in full soup mode. Almost every weekend, I'm doing a large pot of stock. I got a pot of beef stock going right now. Plans for it are base for hand made noodles, potato slippery dumplings, and a short rib and potato noodle soup.

Yesterday, I boughts some Beef bones (it said Aitch bone???). Last week was Shin bones. Got me to thinking what the best parts of a chicken, beef, and pork are in making really great stock.

For Pork, I've been using neck bones and fresh hocks.

For beef, I've used ribs, Aitch (what ever that is), neck, and feet

For chicken, the whole chicken (I've not been able to find a source for feet and backs in NOVA area).

What parts do you use for your stocks and where do you get the parts?

Soup

[jackal10]

My local butcher gives them to me free when I buy my meat.

Today i go beef ribs and shin. Making stock now (pressure cooker method)

[Kent Wang]

For chicken, necks or backs? Why?

[Shalmanese]

I like ribs for beef, neck for pork & lamb and wingtips & backs for chicken.

[mizducky]

In the modern American supermarket that no longer keeps a full-fledged butcher on staff, I only sporadically find packages of trimmings for soup/stock makings. So whenever I do spy a package of chicken necks and backs, I tend to snap it up and stick it in the freezer ASAP. Failing that, I've found that chicken or turkey wings are excellent soup-makings.

Mind you, a whole chicken makes excellent stock too--there's just something from my Depression-era parents' indoctrination that makes me somehow loathe to sacrifice that whole chicken to the stockpot. Bony cuts like wings, backs, necks, etc. not only have a lot of flavor, they also have bunches of connective tissue holding all those bitty bones together, which makes for a high-gelatin stock/broth that will set up nicely when chilled, and give that nice collagen-rich mouthfeel to whatever soup etc. you eventually use it in.

I have noticed that the local 99 Ranch Market, which not only has an extremely active meat department with a bunch of for-real butchers, but also a clientele that loves offal and variety meats, maintains a steady dependable supply of chicken feet and other trimmings. If I ever have to make a full-force gelatin-to-the-max stock for an aspic or something, I'm planning to hit the 99 Ranch and get me a whole mess o' feet. (Some of which might wind up turning into a dim sum delicacy instead ... )

(edited to fix at least a couple of grammatical errors ... there are probably others still left, but oh well...)

Edited December 5, 2005 by mizducky (log)

[Pam R]

Go to a kosher place for your chicken parts. I only use whole fowl if I'm going to use the meat for something else (kreplach, knishes, chicken pot pie). Otherwise, the best chicken stocks are from backs, necks and wings. Baba would have used feet as well - can you believe you can't buy kosher feet in my province anymore? Any kosher butcher (or store) worth it's salt will have these parts (except for the feet).

For beef I use ribs and neck.

[Shalmanese]

In the modern American supermarket that no longer keeps a full-fledged butcher on staff, I only sporadically find packages of trimmings for soup/stock makings. So whenever I do spy a package of chicken necks and backs, I tend to snap it up and stick it in the freezer ASAP. Failing that, I've found that chicken or turkey wings are excellent soup-makings.

Mind you, a whole chicken makes excellent stock too--there's just something from my Depression-era parents' indoctrination that makes me somehow loathe to sacrifice that whole chicken to the stockpot. Bony cuts like wings, backs, necks, etc. not only have a lot of flavor, they also have bunches of connective tissue holding all those bitty bones together, which makes for a high-gelatin stock/broth that will set up nicely when chilled, and give that nice collagen-rich mouthfeel to whatever soup etc. you eventually use it in.

I have noticed that the local 99 Ranch Market, which not only has an extremely active meat department with a bunch of for-real butchers, but also a clientele that loves offal and variety meats, maintains a steady dependable supply of chicken feet and other trimmings. If I ever have to make a full-force gelatin-to-the-max stock for an aspic or something, I'm planning to hit the 99 Ranch and get me a whole mess o' feet. (Some of which might wind up turning into a dim sum delicacy instead ... )

(edited to fix at least a couple of grammatical errors ... there are probably others still left, but oh well...)

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Have you tried the eCGI method of simmering of using whole chickens and poaching for 20 minutes until the breasts are done, then removing the breasts and returning the rest of the chicken to the pot to make stock? I find that you can strip off the larger chunks of meat post-stock and shred them finely for a really good chicken-corn soup. That way, you can at least assuage some of your guilt.

[gperls]

The Wal-Mart grocery stores around here sell 6 lb. frozen stewing hens for $.69/lb. In adddition to my saved bones and wings, I throw one of these in for my chicken stock. Its cheaper than what some stores sell backs and necks for.

[Michael Ruhlman]

In my experience the keys to great stock are a good mix of meat for flavor and bones for gelatin/body (joints and feet are especially rich in collagen), a long slow heat (too hot to touch but almost no bubbles rising to the surface), adding aromatic vegetables and herbs at the end, and straining immediately.

I'm curious: of all you stock makers out there, do any of you make veal stock, and a related question, do any of you make stock specifically for sauces?

[JPW]

In my experience the keys to great stock are a good mix of meat for flavor and bones for gelatin/body (joints and feet are especially rich in collagen), a long slow heat (too hot to touch but almost no bubbles rising to the surface), adding aromatic vegetables and herbs at the end, and straining immediately.

I'm curious: of all you stock makers out there, do any of you make veal stock, and a related question, do any of you make stock specifically for sauces?

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Occasionally, when I make chicken stock, I freeze about half of it for soup and re-strain and reduce the rest for use in sauces.

[Malawry]

I make veal stock specifically to turn it into demi. I use the demi almost exclusively for sauces--though I do use it to punch up the liquid in braised dishes or sometimes water it back down if I'm low on stock.

It's at least a three-day process when I make it. Day 1, roast bones and veg. Day 2, cook the stock for at least 12 hours and strain. Day 3, reduce. I only do it about once a year, I make a 5gal stockpot of the stock which makes about 4 deli cups of demi--and I don't go through demi all that fast.

[slkinsey]

I make veal stock whenever I can get plenty of veal bones. And I always make my stocks for sauce making... which is to say that I always reduce the stock to a glace and freeze it in cubes. So I can use the cubes for a sauce as-is, or I can add water to get a broth.

It's really handy to have a bunch of glace cubes in the freezer, because you can always melt a few for a small sauce, to flavor rice/make risotto, etc.

[deltadoc]

I almost exclusively make veal stock now. I get a 50lb box of New Zealand inspected veal bones from Venison America in Hudson Wisconsin. The veal in NZ is raised in tradional fashion without the use of anitbiotics and growth accelerators.

I did make turkey stock again this year using the wings, legs, and carcass. Once my wife took off all the meat, I roasted the bones & carcass some more before making the stock.

Barely bubbling all night long, with the mirepoix roasting with the first roasting of the neck, wings, legs & main torso.

I use the veal stock for french onion soup, cauliflower soup, and for making brown (Espagnole sauce) as a prelude to making Escoffier type demi-glace.

I find I can use the turkey stock whenever and wherever low-salt chicken stock is called for without noticing any difference in end product.

The veal stock is superior to when I used to make both beef and veal stock from neck bones. (I feel safer eating it too, compared to beef stock, especially beef stock from spinal column components).

doc

[CtznCane]

I always have stock on hand. Primarily for sauces or braises as well as for soup on occasion. I make mine in a 12 quart stock pot and then freeze the stock in 1 or 2 cup jars.

For Chicken stock I"ll typically use 2 whole chickens from which I"ve taken off the breasts. (Considering what boneless chicken breasts cost this makes the cost of chicken stock next to nothing.) Also I'll usually add whatever chicen backs I have around (kept from cut up whole chickens) and necks.

I would love to be able to make veal stock but I've had a helluva time trying to find any veal bones. As a result I wind up just making beef stock which still works admirably. I'll typically get leg bones cut up and use those along with adding a couple of beef or veal shanks as well.

The basic recipe I've used for beef stock came from Emeril's "Louisianna Real & Rustic" recipe for veal stock with the exception that I use beef bones. I've made several efforts at aquiring veal bones and it is so frustrating that now I'll only occasionally try to find them. I think it's about time to make another such effort. Even if I do find them, I wonder what their cost will be? As good as the beef stock turns out, if the veal bones are high priced, would it really be worth the difference? I don't know that it would. I'm willing to find out though.

[Bill Miller]

I like to roast my beef bones before making stock.

Once every year or so I stuff a whole fresh ham with vegis, season it and simmer in cheesecloth overnite (Maryland style). The pork is wonderful and you get the most wonderful pork stock (lots of it). Use it in blackeyed peas or any other vegi that needs fat back and a liquid. I've never seen pork stock in the stores--great stuff.

[fiftydollars]

I make veal stock 2-3 times per year. It is a long, tedious affair and it makes the whole place reek of meat... so I'm really not allowed to do it anymore often than that.

Over the course of a couple of days I make veal stock and glace de viande. I follow instructions from Jaques Pepin's Complete Techniques for re-cooking the bones to make the completely reduced product, but I start with The French Laundry recipe for the veal stock. The veal stock is a product similar to Pepin's demi-glace recipe; a simple no-wine (or roux, etc) version of demi-glace. I use this stuff almost exclusively for braising and making sauces, although once in a while I make an onion soup or two.

The glace de viande is the tedious part of this operation. It requires impossible patience and nerves of steel to take the reduction to the limit on my terrible stove. Basically, you reuse the bones from the veal stock to make a second stock that you then reduce until all of the water has been evaporated. Starting with 20 quarts of reused bones and water I end up with about a hockey puck's worth of glace de viande. The puck analogy is apt as even at room temperature the stuff is dark, tough, and rubbery. But just melt a little bit down slowly with a bit of wine and/or whatnot and finish it with some butter and you'll know where your weekend went.

Adding a split calves hoof is the best part of Keller's recipe. It makes a big difference and it is also a good way to get noticed at the butcher's. I've received odd stares followed by awkward questions and at least one local purveyor will no longer look me in the eye. I try to approach the topic with a bit of humor, which is a strategy that has admittedly backfired in almost every other area of my life, with this being no exception.

So my advice would be that you get yourself a split calves hoof the next time you make a veal stock and maybe even re-boil the bones a bit (ok, about 12 hours plus further reduction time of about 4-10 hours or so, depending on your stove, gumption) to get what is almost a free product (I tell myself), but be serious about all of this or your relationship with your butcher could irreparably suffer.

[Marlene]

I've got beef stock simmering now.

For beef stock I tend to use, beef shanks, ox tails and short ribs.

Pork stock tend to be tails and fresh hocks

Chicken is the whole chicken or wings and thighs, necks and gibbets

[Michael Ruhlman]

    I would love to be able to make veal stock but I've had a helluva time trying to find any veal bones.  As a result I wind up just making beef stock which still works admirably.  I'll typically get leg bones cut up and use those along with adding a couple of beef or veal shanks as well. 

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surely a grocery store sells veal breast--which should be inexpensive, with a good mix of meat cartilage and bone....?

[jefferyc]

I like about 15 lbs of chicken backs and 2 lbs of veal bones.

[fifi]

I can get chicken backs and carcasses at the Asian market. I do usually add wings and a whole chicken so I can "rob" the breast meat. Besides, whole chickens are usually cheaper.

Beef is getting difficult to get anything cheap enough to make stock from. (Geez! Oxtails must have become the latest Houston gourmet fad.) When ribs go on sale, I start looking. Then I may add some brisket. Bones, especially knuckles are hard enough to find that when I do run into the treasure, I snap them up and put them in the freezer. For the mainline groceries here, HEB probably has the best selection. But . . . You better be there when the butcher puts them out. Zoom! They are gone.

Veal . . . Forget it. I just can't find anything, and I draw the line at making stock out of veal chops.

Pork necks and fresh hocks are starting to show up. I have never done it before but I need pork stock!

I usually reduce some and leave some "fresh" as I find that the unreduced stock has a lighter flavor that I like for some soups.

But . . . My favorite thing is that I now usually retrieve the fat. I basically "clean it" by bubbling over very low heat. Then I decant the clear fat into little jars and put in the fridge. Um . . . Nice chicken fat for veggies and potatoes.

[Marlene]

You can still get veal and beef shanks here, but they aren't cheap like they used to be. I always have pork stock on hand, and it is wonderful to have around. I'm making a pork roast tonight and the pork stock will be used for gravy. I always roast beef bones and the pork hocks first. The beef bones I paint with tomato sauce, the pork I do not.

[Soup]

For beef/veal stock, I'm having a though time finding reasonably priced parts.

Short Ribs, and oxtail are really good but expensive. oxtail here is $4.99/lb (sometime I can get it $3.99/lb).

Veal I can't find at all.

Chicken, it cheaper for me @ .69/lbs just to use the whole chicken and I get good stock.

Pork parts are faily cheap and accessible.

[thecuriousone]

In my experience the keys to great stock are a good mix of meat for flavor and bones for gelatin/body (joints and feet are especially rich in collagen), a long slow heat (too hot to touch but almost no bubbles rising to the surface), adding aromatic vegetables and herbs at the end, and straining immediately.

I'm curious: of all you stock makers out there, do any of you make veal stock, and a related question, do any of you make stock specifically for sauces?

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My favorite is Madeline Kamman's golden veal stock. It rocked my world. It has become a rite of autumn, making her veal stock and sauce espagnol for the upcoming holiday season. It gives all of my cooking a lift.

[moosnsqrl]

a long slow heat (too hot to touch but almost no bubbles rising to the surface), adding aromatic vegetables and herbs at the end, and straining immediately.

Curse you, Ruhlman, and Keller, too. I just finished Soul of a Chef and now, instead of just plopping a chicken in a pot with water and aromatics, I am obsessing over it, feeling that to do any less would be a dishonor to the chicken. I'm sure I will thank you (and TK) when it is time to sit down at the table, though.

[wattacetti]

Beef bones I can get easily and quite cheaply; they're usually a mix of rib and leg/shank.

Chicken I get from deboning whole chickens as an excuse to use my knives. Chicken feet are readily available as well, though I don't use them very often.

Pork would be neck or rib, though I occassionally debone loin roasts.

Veal bones I get occassionally simply because they've been more difficult to obtain, but it's generally rare that I'm able to score adequate quantities to make a pure fond de veau.

I make fond, demi-glace and glace; most of the production is for sauce but I do make chicken and pork broths (no aromatics) for noodles and stuff.