Nine months without sushi

[Pan]

[...]Browsing and reading through the various Internet sites and forums shows that the list of no-nos is getting longer all the time. An article by a naturalist doctor forbids eating green peppers, and one can find warnings against spearmint and sage. One contributor keeps away from sunny-side-up eggs and another will not even touch a Krembo, an Israeli marshmellow candy, because it is made of egg whites. And who is willing to take a risk? If they nix sage, then no sage. Someone has heard about hummus too? Who wouldn't watch her step afterward with hummus?[...]

Many societies have traditionally had dietary restrictions or guidelines for pregnant women. Here's an article about modern dietary restrictions, in Israel.

[SuzySushi]

Interesting article!

When I was pregnant, I avoided:

->alcoholic beverages

->anything containing raw or lightly cooked eggs (salmonella is a problem in Hawaii)

->raw fish and shellfish (no raw sushi or sashimi -- this was the first food I wanted on coming home from the hospital!!!)

->soft-ripened cheeses such as brie and camembert

and things I usually avoid anyway:

->caffeinated beverages

->raw or very rare meats

I know plenty of women who ate and drank whatever they wanted while pregnant, but why risk a miscarriage?

[MHarney]

Curious about a few of the non-obvious items in the list at the end of the article, I googled pregnant avoid plus each of the foods in question. It was interesting to see that there are differerent theories about why sage should be avoided, from the merely bad to the downright scary: might reduce milk production, could induce uterine contractions, might cause bleeding. However, in what I read, there seems to be little agreement, and the only references I saw to bolster the ideas were footnotes citing health food books published the 1980s. A large number of sites (mostly organic/health food/holistic) just say don't eat a particular item, with no explanation at all. Not very helpful.

Also interesting is that there are lots of folks who say that spearmint, also on the list, is great calmative as a tea during pregnancy and only a few places seem to say it's bad -- either with no explanation or saying that, in essential oil form, it's also capable of producing contractions.

My research just now was, of course, only of a brief nature, but I think that if I were great with child, I might end up so frustrated with and worried about the contradictory opinions or complete lack of concrete information on some of these items that I'd probably end up eating Cream of Wheat with a multi-vitamin chaser most of the time. Wait...what's the scoop on milk? Brown sugar? Maple syrup? Good golly, are some vitamins bad? Yikes. Maybe just some filtered water and a no-salt saltine for me.

Edited November 24, 2005 by MHarney (log)

[Shinboners]

My partner and I had a baby this year. She gave up raw foods, rare meats, things like oysters, mussels, and clams, and alcohol - and I gave up on them too (well, except for the rare meat). We also had to give up on ham, although that was fine if you cooked it. Interestingly, we chatted to the mother of one of our friends and she said back in her day, they happily ate raw oysters simply because no-one thought there was any problem with it. Here in Australia, we get a pamphlet explaining what foods you should avoid and the key reason is to avoid listeria infections.

Still, try as you might, some foods you should avoid get through the cracks. We avoided raw eggs, but without thinking, we ate hand made mayonnaise (raw egg yolk) and a chocolate mousse (raw egg white).

We spoke to a naturopath and she said that we should give up garlic (I can't remember the reason why), although to her credit, she also said that there were millions of people around the world who still ate garlic throughout pregnancy with no ill effect.

One of my best friends is planning to have a baby. She's a vegetarian, and all and sundry are telling her that she should start eating meat for the baby's sake. But there are plenty of vegetarian communities around the world that have no problem with making babies.

In the end, it wasn't a problem for us to give up certain foods for 9 months. We still ate very well. During the pregnancy, we went to Tetsuya's, and she had to pass up on his signature dish (the confit ocean trout) because the cooking temperature of that dish doesn't guarantee the elimination of bacteria. She probably would have been fine, but we didn't want to take the risk. Any regrets she might have had on giving up on that fine dish would evaporate with seeing our little baby girl smiling.

[Pan]

Congratulations on your baby!

It's surprising that anyone is cautioning about garlic. I thought garlic was considered one of the most healthful things one could eat in almost any condition.

[SuzySushi]

It's surprising that anyone is cautioning about garlic. I thought garlic was considered one of the most healthful things one could eat in almost any condition.

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Garlic is a blood-thinner. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

(Before my husband went in for bypass surgery, he had to stop eating garlic, ginger, and anything with a lot of vitamin C.)

[Pan]

That makes sense, Suzy. Is ginger also a blood-thinner?

[torakris]

I have been through three pregnancies and have three very healthy children, I didn't need to give up alcohol or sodas because I don't drink either to begin with. I gave up coffee because my body refused it, I couldn't even stand the smell.

I ate raw fish, meats and eggs but only when I knew their source and was sure of their freshness. If I had been living anywhere except Japan I may have avoided these more.

I was pregnant with my son (now 5) I was talking to a Chinese friend and she told me there were quite a few vegetables and herbs pregnant women are told to avoid. One is bamboo shoots because they say it can cause contractions. When I was 8 days overdue with my son I went out to a Chinese restaurant and ordered a dish full of bamboo shoots, 4 hours later I was holding my son....

[SuzySushi]

That makes sense, Suzy. Is ginger also a blood-thinner?

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So I presume.

Another reknowned blood-thinner is Chinese tree-ear (aka wood-ear) fungus. I don't recall it making the American "no" list, though!

[Shinboners]

Garlic is a blood-thinner. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

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Now that you mention that, this was the reason the naturopath gave us for avoiding garlic.

[Shinboners]

. I gave up coffee because my body refused it, I couldn't even stand the smell.

Smell can make all the difference with food. My partner adores seafood, but when she got pregnant, she couldn't handle the smell of it. It was the same with pork.

I ate raw fish, meats and eggs but only when I knew their source and was sure of their freshness. If I had been living anywhere except Japan I may have avoided these  more.

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People are told here to avoid smoked salmon. And yet, in the book "How To Eat", Nigella Lawson writes of eating plenty of smoked salmon throughout one of her pregnancies.

Like a lot of what happens during a pregnancy, it's a risk management exercise. You were able to eat raw seafood because you were certain about its freshness. If my partner and I were 10 years younger, we might have taken the same risk as we know the quality of seafood in Australia is very good (provided you know where to look). But we decided that it wasn't worth the risk, so we gave things like sushi a miss.

[kiliki]

This conversation reminds me of many conversations I've had with my ob/gyn about women's health in general...there are so many things doctors just don't know because so little research has gone into women's health concerns as opposed to men's.

[therese]

This conversation reminds me of many conversations I've had with my ob/gyn about women's health in general...there are so many things doctors just don't know because so little research has gone into women's health concerns as opposed to men's.

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While it's true that there's historically been a lack of research in areas that relate specifically to women's health, that's not really the issue in this instance. Even if an investigator wanted to compare the effects of a "high sage" diet with a "no sage" diet, very few pregnant women would be willing to participate. You could, of course, do an epidemiologic study of patients who already happened to be following either of those diets, but the difference would have to be pretty marked to show up against the background of other variations in diet, underlying medical problems, etc.

When I was pregnant I avoided alcohol (with a few exceptions late in pregnancy), excessive caffeine (maybe one iced tea per day), rare meat, and sashimi.

[kellycolorado]

I gave up (am obstaining from) the same as Therese right now, plus soft cheeses and cole slaw, unless they are from a small producer. I think the risk of listeria from mass produced factory sources is not insignificant and pregnant women and their unborn babies are much more suseptible to listeria.

I ate some nice wild smoked salmon when I was a few months pregnant- I didn't even know I was supposed to avoid it until someone mentioned it! And I forgot and ordered some cole slaw I was craving a few times (made in house). All is well though. I had never heard about sage, garlic, bamboo shoots etc. Hopefully they are OK at culinary doses because I ate them throughout both pregnancies.

-Kelly, who is dying for a glass of wine... and some camembert... sigh...

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

I'm 35 weeks pregnant right now, and I'm avoiding soft, unpastuerized cheese, fish that are high on the food chain (read high levels of mercury), raw or very rare meats, peanuts and tree nuts.

The peanuts and tree nuts are because I'm trying to avoid peanut/tree nut allergy with this baby.

I've eaten cold cuts, eggs with runny yolks and some sushi through my pregnancies. As far as sushi goes, I avoid the raw fish items, but they are not a big favorite of mine to begin with.

There's a bulletin board at ivillage that is for women due around the same time I am, and I'm always surprised at how much stuff they feel they need to avoid eating.

[Pan]

Has in utero exposure to nuts been correlated with nut allergies in children? I would have expected the reverse, but what do I know?

[Adrienne Carmack]

Has in utero exposure to nuts been correlated with nut allergies in children? I would have expected the reverse, but what do I know?

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I did a quick search on pubmed and it seems that no one really knows the answer yet. A recent article reviewing what's known about food allergies concluded that we don't know why some people have them and that no general recommendations for avoiding food allergies can be made. There was a recent study suggesting that kids who show signs of an allergy when they are very young may have developed the allergy as a response to an in utero exposure, but this certainly doesn't mean that all kids exposed in utero will have the allergy or that the kids who did have the allergies wouldn't have developed them later on anyways if they hadn't been exposed in utero.

So it seems we don't really know the answer yet. In the meantime, I plan to keep taking my folic acid and to enjoy a balanced diet with everything in moderation. And if I had a family history of nut allergies, I probably would avoid them - though that's not based on any medical evidence that I'm aware of, just what seems logical to me. But I suppose that when the day comes that I have the responsibility for providing all of the nutrition for another human being, I'll feel better avoiding the "highly recommended" foods as well.

[Shinboners]

So it seems we don't really know the answer yet.

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Especially when there are women who have drug and alcohol addictions, and have poor diets, and they still give birth.

There are so many different cultures with different dietry structures, and bhilden are born in these cultures every day.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

So it seems we don't really know the answer yet.

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Especially when there are women who have drug and alcohol addictions, and have poor diets, and they still give birth.

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I can remember my first childbirth class, and the 16 year old mother-to-be across the table eating twinkies and drinking Mountain Dew. No doubt hers was the most effortless conception, pregnancy and delivery on record. Sigh.

I had gestational diabetes with both pregnancies, really wanted to stay off insulin injections, and stuck to a strict diet along with five bloodtestings daily. For the first few months of each, I couldn't stand the look and smell of fish, meat or poultry, so I ate peanut butter for my protein. I also didn't drink caffeine at all, no alcohol, no refined sugars.

All I really missed was coffee and, every now and then I'd get a craving for a jelly doughnut. I'd go stand in the bakery and breathe deeply. For my second child, my favorite "shower" gift was a big basket of all the stuff I couldn't eat or drink: coffee, beer, wine, chocolates, and a gift certificate from that bakery.

[Malawry]

It's amazing to me that more people aren't obsessed with what I put in my mouth these days, at 21 weeks pregnant. My husband asks questions sometimes, but almost everybody else is more interested in what comes out of my mouth (I still get sick sometimes, most recently Saturday night) than what I put in.

That being said, I am avoiding the following:

Salmon

Raw or rare fish or beef--I only eat steaks 'cause I hate beef cooked past medium, and I think burgers should be medium-well to be safe for me (which tastes terrible)

Caffeine, which I had already kicked before getting pregnant, and excessive refined sugar

I only let myself eat tuna salad once a month, which sucks 'cause I have a huge craving for it! I'm worried about mercury.

Raw eggs, which of course means I always want a real caesar salad

Alcohol

I eat deli meats, but I try to make sure they've been heated up until steaming before I eat them

Chicken and coffee make me nauseous right now, so I'm not consuming them. (I used to NEED a cup of decaf in the morning--and derive such great pleasure from consuming it--I miss that satisfaction...)

I've never heard of avoiding green peppers and sage. Sometimes I wonder what the hell all this is about anyway--people try so hard to make pregnant women paranoid and give us such clear messages that we can't handle our own pregnancies and our own births. I work hard to continue taking pleasure in dining despite these restrictions--I think it's good for me and good for my baby to do so.

[TPO]

There are so many different cultures with different dietry structures, and bhilden are born in these cultures every day.

We all have different dietary structures, but the way some foods are processed may be unique to the American culture. I think we're the only ones eating genetically engineered corn every day, and I bet the way we factory-raise chickens and other meats isn't popular wordwide.

If I were pregnant, I would try to avoid processed foods and I would avoid raw/rare meat and eggs mainly because of the way these things are grown and harvested. I don't think I would go quite as far as avoiding green peppers, sage, and other such things, although it's hard to say for sure since I'm not pregnant.

[Patrick S]

There are so many different cultures with different dietry structures, and bhilden are born in these cultures every day.

We all have different dietary structures, but the way some foods are processed may be unique to the American culture. I think we're the only ones eating genetically engineered corn every day . . .

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America grows the most, but Argentina, Spain and South Africa all grow quite a bit of GE maize as well. Not sure what percentage of total maize acreage was GE in these countries however. Canada, Germany, Honduras, Phillipines and Uruguay are also growing GE corn, but in smaller amounts.

[Patrick S]

We spoke to a naturopath and she said that we should give up garlic (I can't remember the reason why), although to her credit, she also said that there were millions of people around the world who still ate garlic throughout pregnancy with no ill effect.

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And to further confuse the expectant mother, other people are saying that garlic supplements should be taken during pregnancy to reduce risk of preeclampsia and promote higher birth weight.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Sometimes I wonder what the hell all this is about anyway--people try so hard to make pregnant women paranoid and give us such clear messages that we can't handle our own pregnancies and our own births. I work hard to continue taking pleasure in dining despite these restrictions--I think it's good for me and good for my baby to do so.

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Oh, Malawry. If you think this is bad, wait 'till the kiddo arrives!