Continental, Bistro, and The Box

[Ariestiger]

Greetings eG, from my latest "well, it will cover some bills while I write" job...

Actually, this job is among the best as of late. Sure beats wearing a hairnet and passing out Doritos at Wal-Mart (yes, it was a difficult summer!).

Here is the mission I will be on for forty hours each week until someone changes their mind:

Building restaurant surveys, using a supplied list of categories that reads like every other Zagat-inspired classification system.

My first question is this: Do people really look at restaurant guidebooks with the thought, "Hmm...let's see if we can find a nice little Continental restaurant!"

I tried--and failed--to interject my own thoughts on this, especially because I felt very saddened by their insistence that one of my favorite categories, 24-hour eateries, was not a necessary category. I don't know about you, but I think I might use a guide frequently if it gave me info on where to dine when I arrive in a city at midnight.

My second question is: What's happening with the term 'bistro'? I'm wary of lumping a restaurant into that category simply because it's part of their name, and there are categories for "French," "International," "Italian," etc., ...so what do my fellow foodies think about this term and how to use it with today's restaurants?

I appreciate any help you can lend!

Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll have this gig through the holidays so that I won't be posting on the health effects of Doritos dust...

H

[mikeycook]

I personally would like to see a clear deliniation between french bistros and french brasseries. Until the last year, Zagat didn't recognize brasserie as a category in NY. Now they do, but have a number of them tagged erroneously (Balthazar is labeled a brasserie, while Pastic is labeled a bistro... when they are basically the same place.)

[MarketStEl]

I tried--and failed--to interject my own thoughts on this, especially because I felt very saddened by their insistence that one of my favorite categories, 24-hour eateries, was not a necessary category. I don't know about you, but I think I might use a guide frequently if it gave me info on where to dine when I arrive in a city at midnight.

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That's a shame. I agree with you that restaurant guides should include, if not separate ratings, at least a list of rated restaurants that are open round the clock or serve later than the usual closing time in the given city.

However, I don't think that "24-hour restaurants" are a category separate and distinct from the usual system of classifying by type of cuisine. Especially when you consider that many of these 24-hour establishments are diners.

I too could use some clarification on what makes a restaurant a bistro and what makes it a brasserie. I've assumed that a bistro is a casual eatery that features relatively uncomplicated fare.

[Ariestiger]

I tried--and failed--to interject my own thoughts on this, especially because I felt very saddened by their insistence that one of my favorite categories, 24-hour eateries, was not a necessary category. I don't know about you, but I think I might use a guide frequently if it gave me info on where to dine when I arrive in a city at midnight.

←

That's a shame. I agree with you that restaurant guides should include, if not separate ratings, at least a list of rated restaurants that are open round the clock or serve later than the usual closing time in the given city.

However, I don't think that "24-hour restaurants" are a category separate and distinct from the usual system of classifying by type of cuisine. Especially when you consider that many of these 24-hour establishments are diners.

I too could use some clarification on what makes a restaurant a bistro and what makes it a brasserie. I've assumed that a bistro is a casual eatery that features relatively uncomplicated fare.

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Okay, okay, then how about "Food that soaks up alcohol and post-travel-stress-stomach juices?" as a category?

The only reason I was pushing for this was because of the inclusion of "Hotel Dining". Is Hotel Dining really a type of cuisine worthy of its own category? If so, what does it tell us about the cuisine?

H

[mikeycook]

I too could use some clarification on what makes a restaurant a bistro and what makes it a brasserie.  I've assumed that a bistro is a casual eatery that features relatively uncomplicated fare.

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In France, a bistro is generally a mom-and-pop type restaurant that writes out the menu every day on a chalkboard. A brasserie is usually a large restaurant with a bar, kind of like a diner that serves french classics. Brasseries usually have fairly broad hours and are open on Sundays.

[Ariestiger]

I too could use some clarification on what makes a restaurant a bistro and what makes it a brasserie.  I've assumed that a bistro is a casual eatery that features relatively uncomplicated fare.

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In France, a bistro is generally a mom-and-pop type restaurant that writes out the menu every day on a chalkboard. A brasserie is usually a large restaurant with a bar, kind of like a diner that serves french classics. Brasseries usually have fairly broad hours and are open on Sundays.

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Thank you for your take on this. Do you think this applies in the States?

[mikeycook]

I too could use some clarification on what makes a restaurant a bistro and what makes it a brasserie.  I've assumed that a bistro is a casual eatery that features relatively uncomplicated fare.

←

In France, a bistro is generally a mom-and-pop type restaurant that writes out the menu every day on a chalkboard. A brasserie is usually a large restaurant with a bar, kind of like a diner that serves french classics. Brasseries usually have fairly broad hours and are open on Sundays.

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Thank you for your take on this. Do you think this applies in the States?

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Unfortunately, I think virtually every French restaurant that is not very high end is considered a bistro by most americans. I guess that makes sense, since authentic brasseries are a relatively new thing in the U.S. Nevertheless, if I go into a "bistro" and see a large bar (made of zinc or similar material), more than 75 or so seats, and large menu (like a diner), I instantly say "brasserie". I think a lot of restaurants still avoid the term because brasserie is not a familiar term to a lot of Americans (they are more like to think of "Brazier", like Dairy Queen). I think you will see this term more frequently in the future.

As another category, restaurants that serve breakfast all day are always interesting to me.

[MarketStEl]

Okay, okay, then how about "Food that soaks up alcohol and post-travel-stress-stomach juices?" as a category?

The only reason I was pushing for this was because of the inclusion of "Hotel Dining". Is Hotel Dining really a type of cuisine worthy of its own category? If so, what does it tell us about the cuisine?

H

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I concede your point.

If that guide considers hotel restaurants a category unto itself, then 24-hour eateries definitely belong in a category of their own too.

Hotel dining runs the gamut and probably encompasses more variety than even 24-hour joints do. Especially if you include motels in the category. I've been in towns where the restaurant at the local Holiday Inn was the ne plus ultra of fine dining (and come to think of it, I believe Calvin Trillin had a Holiday Inn restaurant in downtown Kansas City in mind when he wrote derisively about "restaurants spinning around on top of bank buildings" in American Fried). Howard Johnson motels always had one of the company's restaurants attached, giving guests an alternative to spending hours in front of the TV in their rooms. I doubt that any of us would put these establishments in the same category as the Fountain Room at the Four Seasons Philadelphia or even JW's Steakhouse at the Marriott (Annie's American Grille might be another story).

I suspect, however, that the editors of your guide had in mind the type of hotel restaurant that dreams of being the Fountain Room someday: an elegant, wood-paneled, chandeliered space where people speak in hushed tones, with a menu heavy on the old-school haute cuisine classics--okay, maybe they've let some nouvelle stuff in--and prices that would probably merit three dollar signs in most local city magazines. But truthfully, how many of these can a typical city support?

I'd find the 24-hour category far more useful. Special attention should be given to the Buffalo wings, the burgers and the omelets.

[Ariestiger]

I concede your point.

If that guide considers hotel restaurants a category unto itself, then 24-hour eateries definitely belong in a category of their own too.

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Well, thank you! Finally someone that agrees with me!

Personally, I'm just trying to make a buck without losing my dignity (see Doritos above). However I am the type of person that tries to be thorough and mentally involved in my work, and now that I have the job of picking and choosing which restaurants to put in what categories, I'd like to at least do the restaurant industry justice. Problem is, this company wants to be their books to be the next Zagat--but on a casual scale; and yet they want to use the standard categories. To me, this is the perfect opportunity to develop new ones.

That's why I posted the question. I might have too many talking heads and egos to contend with at this workplace, but perhaps another individual or group might like to take a stab at a new approach to restaurant guides! If so, I'm available to start immediately!

Cheers,

H

[MarketStEl]

Personally, I'm just trying to make a buck without losing my dignity (see Doritos above). However I am the type of person that tries to be thorough and mentally involved in my work, and now that I have the job of picking and choosing which restaurants to put in what categories, I'd like to at least do the restaurant industry justice. Problem is, this company wants to be their books to be the next Zagat--but on a casual scale; and yet they want to use the standard categories. To me, this is the perfect opportunity to develop new ones.

That's why I posted the question. I might have too many talking heads and egos to contend with at this workplace, but perhaps another individual or group might like to take a stab at a new approach to restaurant guides! If so, I'm available to start immediately!

Cheers,

H

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The next Zagat? We need another set of vox-pop dining guides? Or are they going to rely on anonymous visits by seasoned food critics or paid testers?

I can think of a bunch of unorthodox but potentially useful categories, some of which existing guides try to accommodate:

Big Night Out, Small Budget (special-occasion dining that won't cost a bundle)

Good Food Fast (full-service restaurants that get you in and out quickly if you're in a hurry)

Sensory Overload (where to go if you want to be wowed by the setting, atmosphere or crowd as much as the meal)

I'm Only Here for the Food (when atmosphere doesn't matter and all you want is a great meal)

Great Resort Dining (used to be an oxymoron, but not any longer)

Whaddaya think?

[Ariestiger]

I can think of a bunch of unorthodox but potentially useful categories, some of which existing guides try to accommodate:

Big Night Out, Small Budget (special-occasion dining that won't cost a bundle)

Good Food Fast (full-service restaurants that get you in and out quickly if you're in a hurry)

Sensory Overload (where to go if you want to be wowed by the setting, atmosphere or crowd as much as the meal)

I'm Only Here for the Food (when atmosphere doesn't matter and all you want is a great meal)

Great Resort Dining (used to be an oxymoron, but not any longer)

Whaddaya think?

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Well-put and just what I'd like to see!

Yes, unfortunately my intuitive nature is not being fully challenged here--or even used at all. Perhaps its a sign I need to consider using this experience as how NOT to put together a restaurant guide and start a decent one myself.

You interested?

A few other categories I'd like to see:

Never on a First Date

Spicy--Seriously Spicy

Cures What Ails You