Women Can't Cook

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Angela Hartnett.

[MHarney]

Nevertheless, your remark is an interesting one. Maybe I'll hold my nose for five minutes or so if he happens to appear on a screen that wanders before my eyes.

←

To explain a bit how I came to like Ramsay (especially after all the negative stuff I had read), it may be enlightening for me to mention that, for much of my professional career, the majority of my time has been spent fixing other people's mistakes -- perhaps 60% of the total. Compounding that is the fact that I'm something of a perfectionist, or near-perfectionist, anyway. After doing this for a couple decades, I often wish I could take things utterly in hand, as Ramsay does, and tell the offenders precisely what I think of their sloppy, inexact work, at great volume. I can't, of course, given pesky societal norms, laws, etc., but I can live vicariously.

[Carrot Top]

Yes, I can understand that.

Watching someone else say things that really need to be said is certainly a pleasure.

Personally my own politeness slips often enough so that generally it is others are watching me with a sort of shock and embarrasment (for me as well as for themselves ) that I'd rather spend my free time watching people who seem to be able to restrain themselves.

A long time ago someone told me this saying:

"There are two sorts of people in the world - those who give ulcers and those who get them."

I've been working on being the one who gives them ever since. Not always successfully but I keep trying.

(It's not his rudeness that gives me a sense of bad taste in my mouth - it is a seemingly burgeoning sort of greed for media attention that has something to do with media and "celebrity". This bothers me in two ways - first I sort of like to think of chefs as spending their time in the kitchen not with their PR people and secondly I am one of those people that is just rubbed the wrong way by a society that seems to be in love with other people's "celebrity" rather than with other ideas and issues and things that might bring a sense of more fulfillment into their own lives in a real way. But who am I to say? If people actually are made to feel good about themselves by somehow attaching their own egos and thoughts to someone they do not know except for pictures and words in mass media, well -okay. I just "don't get it".)

Plus the angle of the story seemed wrong to me. As Shelora noted, it is not just women who are not in the kitchen.

Edited October 25, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[PS]

Ah, the usual pre-series TV chef “controversy”. What next? The Welsh can’t cook? Left-handers can’t cook?

To be fair to Gogsy, though, the press have done their usual wrong end of the stick thing by padding out the “story” with chat about the likes of Rose Gray, Ruth Rogers and Angela Hartnett.

The quote from where all this hoo-ha appears to be coming from is “there are huge numbers of young women out there who know how to mix cocktails but can't cook to save their lives”, which hardly equates to the blanket “women can’t cook” headlines.

In my experience, he’s got a point though. My gran or mum would never have claimed to be great cooks, but everything they prepare(d) was from the base ingredients, not out of tins, jars etc. (although, obviously, ready meals were not as prominent back then and it could be argued being able to cook was more of a necessity). Now, a lot of the girls of my generation either don’t know how or aren’t prepared to cook meals from scratch. Some are “too busy” (though my full time employment doesn’t stop me preparing my own meals), some actually claim to like ready meals, saying they are better than what they can make themselves (which confirms GR’s point), while others seemed to avoid learning these skills as some kind of feminist gesture (“a woman’s place is not in the kitchen”). Some can and do cook, but they do seem to be in the minority.

[Carrot Top]

Plus that photograph of him with his tongue sticking out right into the camera (with the lovely little diamond F centered ever-so-cutely) was really gross.

Why do men do this? Have themselves photographed with their fat rubbery tongues sticking out into the camera lens? I've seen it more and more lately.

Is it sort of biologically determined mating behavior? Or perhaps a "I am a dominant male, look at my tongue" thing?

Or does it really just mean "I am an ass." (?)

Edited October 25, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[MHarney]

...I'd rather spend my free time watching people who seem to be able to restrain themselves.

←

To repeat something Bourdain pointed out some time ago, he shows remarkable restraint many times in "Kitchen Nightmares." Superhuman restraint once or twice.

I am one of those people that is just rubbed the wrong way by a society that seems to be in love with other people's "celebrity" rather than with other ideas and issues and things that might bring a sense of more fulfillment into their own lives in a real way.

Agreed. In this case, I like his mechanics and ignore the PR.

Plus the angle of the story seemed wrong to me. As Shelora noted, it is not just women who are not in the kitchen.

Exactly. In my circle, there's just one person besides myself who spends much time in the kitchen. Most people seem to subscribe to the idea of food as fuel and fuel alone. Pretty sad.

Edited October 25, 2005 by MHarney (log)

[Mikeb19]

I totally agree with Gordon Ramsay (in fact, I've been saying this for awhile).

I'm 20 years old. I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board. I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch. Most can't even prepare Kraft dinner without some sort of catastrophe. I've never dated a woman who could cook, nor have any of my friends. I do however know quite a few men my age who can cook (mostly due to spending time in the food industry during teenage years). I will not say anything like women aren't capable of cooking (since my grandma was an amazing cook, my mom pretty decent), but this generation of women CANNOT COOK. I would love to date a girl who could prepare an edible meal from scratch, but it seems I'm out of luck.

BTW, if anyone wants to knock my own cooking skills, I have been working in high end cuisine for a while (and not as a commis either). Alot of 'foodies' seem to like to dismiss Gordon Ramsay because of his style (he says things the way he sees them, doesn't try to be nice to avoid wrecking fragile egos), but his credentials, restaurants speak for themselves. BTW, if anyone thinks GR is mean, try working with high caliber french or italian chefs...

[Carrot Top]

"Home cooking" is not something that is valued in our society today in the US as a general rule.

Women may stand out as being different from their mothers or grandmothers in this respect today because they have *not* been encouraged to learn the ways of the home kitchen. (We'll set aside men who are another topic - just to avoid confusion here.)

Women today have the defined task in our society (as a general rule) that is the same as men: to develop their own capabilities into something that could be called a "career" or at the least, a "job" that will bring in income.

Oh, plus they still are the ones that bear children. Nobody has quite figured out how to completely equalize this thing between the sexes yet.

Our mothers and grandmothers performed a needed task when they cooked.

The food *needed* to be prepared for the family. There were not the options for finding ready-made meals everywhere else in sight, as there is now.

And they were (hopefully) appreciated when they did this neccesary task.

Walk into a room full of people chatting some day.

Watch the woman who is telling someone about her new job and her marvellous career prospects. Watch the response of people to her - both men and women.

Then watch the woman who is telling someone about what she cooked for her family's dinner the night before. Watch the response of people to her - again, both men and women.

................................................................

It is natural for people to aim towards doing things that will bring them appreciation and rewards.

Young women today are not thinking of being homemakers "first". They are thinking of finding some sort of way to support themselves financially "first".

Then all they have to worry about, later, is how to make a great meal in the time left after work after doing the housecleaning and after taking care of the kids.

That's all they have to figure out. Minor stuff.

[Carrot Top]

And I've figured out what *really* bothers me about Gordon Ramsay and this article.

Don''t you think that any celebrity chef who sets himself up to be such a thing has a responsibility to be well. . .desireable? Sexy?

..........................................................................

All I know is that if I were sitting across a table from a man having a wonderful dinner and all of a sudden he shoved his face towards me and stuck out his tongue

with his eyes in huge round mad circles and with a diamond "F" from some dinky charm bracelet sitting sparkling in the gobs of spittle, there would definitely be no nooky that night from me. I'd pick up my damn miniskirt and take it elsewhere.

Of course who knows. That ploy may have had millions of women swooning. I could be wrong.

[Adam Balic]

It is natural for people to aim towards doing things that will bring them appreciation and rewards.

Young women today are not thinking of being homemakers "first". They are thinking of finding some sort of way to support themselves financially "first".

Then all they have to worry about, later, is how to make a great meal in the time left after work after doing the housecleaning and after taking care of the kids.

That's all they have to figure out. Minor stuff.

←

Dude[ette] I work and cook, my missus doesn't cook much (although can and very well, it is just that I like doing it). Having a career certainly makes it more difficult (for either sex), but doesn't make it impossible.

Possibly modern lifestyles break means that only those that like to cook will. Nothing wrong with that (unless you get to the stage we the UK is were utter shite is being fed to kids at home and school). One thing I have noticed is that many friends are intimidated by cooking and feel that it it doesn't look like a food porn shot then they somehow did something wrong.

[Carrot Top]

Yeah. The problem is that kids are getting fed utter *shite*.

I don't know the answer, that's for sure.

But I do know that pointing fingers at *one* group as was done in that article (however it happened, through GR's antics or through the writer's words or through the editor' angle) is divisive and destructive rather than helpful.

Sigh.

[srhcb]

I cook.

Lots of people I know do too.

I don't let any tv personalities bother me.

What a Life!

SB

[Adam Balic]

Yeah. The problem is that kids are getting fed utter *shite*.

I don't know the answer, that's for sure.

But I do know that pointing fingers at *one* group as was done in that article (however it happened, through GR's antics or through the writer's words or through the editor' angle) is divisive and destructive rather than helpful.

Sigh.

←

The article is a bit lame, it presentd GR's typical personal observation taken to an extreme, then countered it with 1) He is well known for making similar statements before, 2) two comments from female cooks. No attempt to find out if there is any truth to the claim or if it highlights a issue in the UK (given the recent School Dinners issue, you would think this would be picked up).

But the articles job was well done as it is sold papers, which is the bottom line.

As it happens I know more British men that cook then women, but have always assumed that this is because women only want me, while it is the me that want to be me.

[Megan Blocker]

I totally agree with Gordon Ramsay (in fact, I've been saying this for awhile).

I'm 20 years old.  I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board.  I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch.  Most can't even prepare Kraft dinner without some sort of catastrophe.  I've never dated a woman who could cook, nor have any of my friends.  I do however know quite a few men my age who can cook (mostly due to spending time in the food industry during teenage years).  I will not say anything like women aren't capable of cooking (since my grandma was an amazing cook, my mom pretty decent), but this generation of women CANNOT COOK.  I would love to date a girl who could prepare an edible meal from scratch, but it seems I'm out of luck. 

BTW, if anyone wants to knock my own cooking skills, I have been working in high end cuisine for a while (and not as a commis either).  Alot of 'foodies' seem to like to dismiss Gordon Ramsay because of his style (he says things the way he sees them, doesn't try to be nice to avoid wrecking fragile egos), but his credentials, restaurants speak for themselves.  BTW, if anyone thinks GR is mean, try working with high caliber french or italian chefs...

←

I'm 25, a very good and enthusiastic cook, and have equal numbers of male and female friends in my age group who are of similar inclination. I have plenty of friends (male and female, again) who are not great cooks, but who appreciate good food. And then I have a few friends - MALE and FEMALE - who worship at the altar of the packaged and preserved. Gordon Ramsay is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Or, at least, wrong to target women.

But, I guess it worked, since we're talking about it.

Edited October 25, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[kitchenbabe]

You're right...those people do exist here...that's why we're here.

However, I see his point. As a woman and a professional cook, on the outset I should be offended....but I'm not.

Here in the states the numbers of female culinary professionals is growing...as is the culture of cuisine among home cooks. But it is sad that so many people, men and women, are out for that quick fix...a simple meal out of the microwave, but it can't have calories, or fat, (or, god forbid, carbs ) or even flavor. It's a bit disheartening.

If he's only reporting on what he's seeing, then no one can fault him. We're a society of people in a hurry and have begun placing these demands on women. We have to wear so many hats, that the toque gets left hanging on the wall.

So the only thing I can say to the women that are squawking about what he's seeing and saying about it, put the toque back on and prove him wrong!!!

[Susan G]

I'm curious why Gordon believes women *ought* to be able to cook well.......and that the same standard doesn't apply to young men??

The harder we work to earn a wage outside the home, the less time there is to cook. It's simple economics.

When I was in high school, I refused to learn typing because of the "traditional working female" connotations - and the lower social status it implied.

I think cooking might be the new typing............

[Andy Lynes]

Andy are you saying that the British are a nation of cooks? (Cue:Theme music; Jamies's School Dinners).

←

No, but I am pig sick of lazy generalisations about the food in this country.

[ludja]

....

Possibly modern lifestyles break means that only those that like to cook will. Nothing wrong with that (unless you get to the stage we the UK is were utter shite is being fed to kids at home and school). One thing I have noticed is that many friends are intimidated by cooking and feel that it it doesn't look like a food porn shot then they somehow did something wrong.

←

... Gordon Ramsay is wrong.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Or, at least, wrong to target women.

But, I guess it worked, since we're talking about it.

←

I agree that with many cases in which both parents work or have careers it will come down, hopefully, to the person who enjoys oooking more to do the bulk of the cooking or whatever arrangement is worked out. But there is no getting around the fact that eating very poorly will negatively impact children and also. still importantly, the health of adults, to eat that way.

The special focus on women may not be completely ill-advised though, in the sense that women are still disproportionately the majority of the gender who are feeding kids and teaching them lifelong eating habits---including what they will then pass on to their kids...

[Behemoth]

Andy are you saying that the British are a nation of cooks? (Cue:Theme music; Jamies's School Dinners).

←

No, but I am pig sick of lazy generalisations about the food in this country.

←

It wasn't a generalization about British food, it was a generalization about people who think each subsequent generation gets closer to hell in their handbasket than the previous one.

[Tess]

This is what really disappoints me:

Nigella Lawson, the television chef and chat show host, has herself previously attacked British women for ''vaunting their undomesticity.''

I never thought Nigella was mean.

[Adam Balic]

Andy are you saying that the British are a nation of cooks? (Cue:Theme music; Jamies's School Dinners).

←

No, but I am pig sick of lazy generalisations about the food in this country.

←

I dunno, DEFRA statistics aren't lazy generalisations and what they say is that in the last decade there has been an increase of "Ready meals & convenience meat products" eaten at home (from 133 gm per person per week to 198). Red meat, poultry and fish consumption remains steady, veg and fruit decline.

60 or so grams per week may not sound like a lot, but as a trend it is very interesting. Given all the food programs and food press over the last decade I am surprised that less British people are cooking at home then a decade ago.

Mind you, I have been here five years and I would say that those of us that are cooking are cooking better (better range and quality of products) now.

DEFRA

From the DEFRA site:

"Household consumption of beef and veal fell by 8.5 per cent in 2001/02. Consumption of lamb, mutton and pork remained at a similar level to 2000/01. There was reduced household consumption of uncooked poultry (-11 per cent) and bacon and ham (-9.8 per cent). Consumption of meat-based ready meals, including takeaways consumed in the household, increased by 15 per cent in comparison to 2000/01, which represents a 70 per cent increase compared to 1996/97. Household consumption of fish and fish products fell by 4.1 per cent in 2001/02. Overall consumption of fresh, frozen and dried fish remains similar to the previous year. Consumption of fresh, chilled or frozen white fish has declined by 21.7 per cent since 1996/97. Egg consumption rose by 1.9 per cent in 2001/02. "

Edited October 25, 2005 by Adam Balic (log)

[BryanZ]

I totally agree with Gordon Ramsay (in fact, I've been saying this for awhile).

I'm 20 years old.  I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board.  I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch.  Most can't even prepare Kraft dinner without some sort of catastrophe.  I've never dated a woman who could cook, nor have any of my friends.  I do however know quite a few men my age who can cook (mostly due to spending time in the food industry during teenage years).  I will not say anything like women aren't capable of cooking (since my grandma was an amazing cook, my mom pretty decent), but this generation of women CANNOT COOK.  I would love to date a girl who could prepare an edible meal from scratch, but it seems I'm out of luck. 

BTW, if anyone wants to knock my own cooking skills, I have been working in high end cuisine for a while (and not as a commis either).  Alot of 'foodies' seem to like to dismiss Gordon Ramsay because of his style (he says things the way he sees them, doesn't try to be nice to avoid wrecking fragile egos), but his credentials, restaurants speak for themselves.  BTW, if anyone thinks GR is mean, try working with high caliber french or italian chefs...

←

This was a well-stated post. Although I do not not explicitly work in food-service I must admit that the entire generation, with very few exceptions, of kids my age has absolutely no conception of good food or basic cooking. I am not saying that tradtional gender roles are or ever were a good thing, but it cannot be denied that the average 20 year-old girl working or going to school is near braindead when it comes to cooking. Ramsay is not denigrating the females who strive to reach the top of their profession, he is simply remarking on the complete lack of initiative taken by younger women to get into the kitchen and learn how to cook decent meals for themselves.

Ramsay's original statement was not sexist in and of itself; it was only portrayed that way in the headline. He simply notes that many young women today place greater emphasis on entertaining (i.e. mixing cocktails) and similar pursuits than learning how to cook for themselves.

[Carrot Top]

Gordon Ramsay's statements are designed to get attention.

For himself, not for any goal of solving any greater "social problem."

[Carrot Top]

Let's take another look:

Clickie

[shelora]

Ramsay's original statement was not sexist in and of itself; it was only portrayed that way in the headline.  He simply notes that many young women today place greater emphasis on entertaining (i.e. mixing cocktails) and similar pursuits than learning how to cook for themselves.

←

Maybe Britian will see a whole generation of professional female bartenders!