Roast

[jamiemaw]

Seven years ago, Iqbal Wahab received 18 death threats when he published a piece in Tandoori magazine accusing Asian waiters of being ‘miserable gits’ who gave poor service. In response (nothing like a few death threats to focus the mind), he started The Cinnamon Club.

Now, at his new restaurant called Roast (at the Borough Market), he wants to revolutionize classic and modern British restaurant cookery, whose resurgence he maintains in this article in The Independent today, has been constrained by physically challenged properties, especially the small kitchens and disconnected rooms found in gastropubs.

He’ll be featuring spit roasts and jellied eels, The 'market salad' is venison with baby beetroot and horseradish. Mains include grilled rare ox hearts with worcestershire onions and bone marrow, and calf's liver with champ and devils on horseback.

He says his menu will be affordable and served forth in a contemporary environment. Or so he promises. And he also threatens English wines, although he’ll offer ‘none out of charity.’

Of course he beat back many better known chain operators such as Ramsay and Conran for the honour.

Whether or not you attended the soft opening this week, I'd be interested to hear your opinions of his vision and concept.

Will he succeed?

Roast is in the Floral Hall, Stoney Street, London SE1 (020-7940 1300)

[srhcb]

Maybe the "Two Fat Ladies" could have pulled it off, but ....

SB

[camp_dick]

Seven years ago, Iqbal Wahab received 18 death threats when he published a piece in Tandoori magazine accusing Asian waiters of being ‘miserable gits’ who gave poor service. In response (nothing like a few death threats to focus the mind), he started The Cinnamon Club.

←

Have a word with yourself, mate. Rather than focus on the last paragraph of that article, perhaps you should look at the one that proceeds it, which explains how Iqbal got his break in journalism around the time that Salmam Rushdie received death threats and went into hiding (Aha! There's an attention-grabbing headline!!) and goes on to explain how he then went into PR (the business of telling entertaining lies).

FIY, Tandoori Magazine was set up (by Iqbal, on behalf of his client, Karan Bilimoria) as a PR vehicle for Cobra Beer. He did write an article about FOH management in Indian restaurants which did say that many waiters came over as 'miserable gits' and Mr Bilimoria got quite upset about it, on the grounds that you don't woo potential customers by insulting them. So, Iqbal Wahab was sacked from Tandoori (and Karan Bilimoria may even have said, "I'll kill you", 18 times. Although I doubt it, because he is an extremely pukka gent.)

What's sad about this article is that, when it was started, The Independent solemnly forbade it's journalists from taking bribes and certainly from writing puff pieces about restaurants based on free meals and whatever the charming proprietor tells them.

[magnolia]

I ate lunch at Roast yesterday.

It's a gorgeous space, and I had a nice meal but it's going to get skewered by critics and diners alike if it doesn't shape up really fast.

It just finished its first week, during which there was a 50% discount off the menu. I felt as if I were a "guinea pig" (not in a terrible way, just in a frustrating one), that the FOH & waitstaff were in the midst of being trained and were not at liberty to use their own judgment about anything.

I'd be interested in hearing from restaurant professionals as to whether my experience is typical of the first week in the life of a restaurant.

Here's how it went...four friends and I at Borough saw a sign for a new restaurant. We found the lift (in a semi-contruction zone) and went upstairs. Greeted by two courteous young ladies behind a counter. Asked a few questions - who's behind the restaurant, what meals will you serve, what are the hours, etc. Then asked if we could see a menu.

"Can we have breakfast now?" (it was about 12h00)

"We're serving lunch at the moment."

"Can we see a menu?"

"We don't have a menu this week, as it's our first week and we are trying different things".

"Well can we see today's lunch menu?"

"I'll check..."

(In the meantime, we figured we'd give it a punt no matter what as it looked like a really pleasant space; she returned) "There are no extra menus at the moment". Figuring the place was packed, and that all menus were spoken for, so I said, "Any chance of a table for four right now".

"You want to eat lunch now?" (as if surprised)

"Yes - is there room?"

"I'll check..."

She returns..."There will be a table in a few minutes. I will show you to the bar... " She takes us to a very nice bar area, which overlooks the market. Comfortable, low chairs, sofas and tables, great for lounging. The however the spot she has chosen has remnants of someone's coffee...but we stay, figuring someone will clear this away and ask if we want coffee as well. This doesn't happen, even though there are plenty of staff working behind the bar.

Nor does anyone come by to show us to our table. After about 10 minutes, one of us gets up and goes to the FOH again and asks if our table will be ready soon...and is told yes, and someone will be back to show us.

I should have mentioned that you can't really see into the restaurant from where we were sitting.

Eventually someone comes by to take us to our table, and lo and behold, only one other table in what seems to be a large restaurant, was occupied.

I felt as if the staff had been trained to show all guests automatically to the bar - whether or not tables are ready. This would have been fine if anyone had offered us a drink, or if our table wasn't ready. But neither one of these was the case...Also, she showed us to a table in the centre of the room rather than one with a view - even though none of the tables was occupied - which also seemed 'automatic', part of the protocol - and she seemed flummoxed when we asked if we could sit by the window.

The room is really lovely, airy, bright and the tables are large and well spaced. Excellent views of the market on three sides, and a view into the restaurant (and kitchen) on the fourth side.

A waiter appeared and asked if we wanted water, we opted for a bottle of sparkling and one glass of tap. Then someone else came over and asked if we wanted wine (before we were given either a wine list or a menu) - so we asked to see the wine list and menu, which were promptly brought over.

The menu is as described - kind of a gussied up St John, i.e. lots of offal but with sides and sauces. Gentler prices, too: I didn't keep a menu or take notes but I seem to recall that starters are betweeen £5-10; mains £10-20 or so; puddings £5. Wine list pretty uninspired, and it was the first meal of the day so we just ordered mains...: roast chicken; two smoked haddocks w/cheese on a bed of spinach; skewered, marinated mushrooms (the one concession, among the mains, to vegetarians).

We were encouraged to order sides but we declined.

These took about 20 minutes to arrive, in the meantime we had some very nice bread and butter. While we were waiting, someone kept coming over to pour the bottled water even though the glasses were not empty. This drives me absolutely bonkers.

The food was very good: a decent-sized steak of smoked haddock, not too salty, with melted cheese; a very generous piece of roast chicken with jus (I think this was the winner) and what I was told were very good mushrooms -but a tiny portion, really, a starter size. While we were eating, a waiter tried to deliver two items which were not ours (by now there were three other occupied tables). Another bottle of sparkling water appeared unsolicited - and we said so, but were told it was on the house.

After we had finished and the plates were cleared, the menu appeared again, for dessert. There were about eight or nine desserts - not a single one with chocolate :-) - but that didn't really matter, we were eager to get back to the market. There was indeed a 50% discount, making it a bargain.

So - an odd experience. Things were perfunctory in a way, but not well-timed or smooth...I can see there might be two sides to the situation: they want to train the staff with real clients, so they open for a soft launch so that the staff can learn to handle different situations - but the other side of it is the annoying little glitches, like not being able to see a menu, having to wait for a table when it was obviously ready, etc.etc...

I'd like to go back: this could be a great breakfast and lunch place (though I could see it being pretty depressing at dinner: the market is not very attractive when empty - in fact it's a bit creepy...) and the menu is interesting, the dishes (except the mushrooms) good portions and well-excecuted.

But as mentioned, I think they're going to get panned by the critics who have an experience similar to mine...

[jamiemaw]

Seven years ago, Iqbal Wahab received 18 death threats when he published a piece in Tandoori magazine accusing Asian waiters of being ‘miserable gits’ who gave poor service. In response (nothing like a few death threats to focus the mind), he started The Cinnamon Club.

←

Have a word with yourself, mate. Rather than focus on the last paragraph of that article, perhaps you should look at the one that proceeds it, which explains how Iqbal got his break in journalism around the time that Salmam Rushdie received death threats and went into hiding (Aha! There's an attention-grabbing headline!!) and goes on to explain how he then went into PR (the business of telling entertaining lies).

FIY, Tandoori Magazine was set up (by Iqbal, on behalf of his client, Karan Bilimoria) as a PR vehicle for Cobra Beer. He did write an article about FOH management in Indian restaurants which did say that many waiters came over as 'miserable gits' and Mr Bilimoria got quite upset about it, on the grounds that you don't woo potential customers by insulting them. So, Iqbal Wahab was sacked from Tandoori (and Karan Bilimoria may even have said, "I'll kill you", 18 times. Although I doubt it, because he is an extremely pukka gent.)

What's sad about this article is that, when it was started, The Independent solemnly forbade it's journalists from taking bribes and certainly from writing puff pieces about restaurants based on free meals and whatever the charming proprietor tells them.

←

Mother pukka! Sounds like this is a place for the discriminating diner. Thank you for your inciteful observations although the notion of me talking to myself is frightening.

Edited October 23, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[jamiemaw]

I ate lunch at Roast yesterday.

It's a gorgeous space, and I had a nice meal but it's going to get skewered by critics and diners alike if it doesn't shape up really fast.

It just finished its first week, during which there was  a 50% discount off the menu. I felt as if I were a "guinea pig" (not in a terrible way, just in a frustrating one), that the FOH & waitstaff were in the midst of being trained and were not at liberty to use their own judgment about anything.

I'd be interested in hearing from restaurant professionals as to whether my experience is typical of the first week in the life of a restaurant.

[sNIP]

"Can we have breakfast now?"  (it was about 12h00)

"We're serving lunch at the moment."

"Can we see a menu?"

"We don't have a menu this week, as it's our first week and we are trying different things".

"Well can we see today's lunch menu?"

"I'll check..."

[sNIP]

"You want to eat lunch now?" (as if surprised)

"Yes - is there room?"

"I'll check..."

She returns..."There will be a table in a few minutes. I will show you to the bar... " She takes us to a very nice bar area, which overlooks the market. Comfortable, low chairs, sofas and tables, great for lounging. The however the spot she has chosen has remnants of someone's coffee...but we stay, figuring someone will clear this away and ask if we want coffee as well. This doesn't happen, even though there are plenty of staff working behind the bar.

Nor does anyone come by to show us to our table. After about 10 minutes, one of us gets up and goes to the FOH again and asks if our table will be ready soon...and is told yes, and someone will be back to show us.

I should have mentioned that you can't really see into the restaurant from where we were sitting.

Eventually someone comes by to take us to our table, and lo and behold, only one other table in what seems to be a large restaurant, was occupied.

I felt as if the staff had been trained to show all guests automatically to the bar - whether or not tables are ready. This would have been fine if anyone had offered us a drink, or if our table wasn't ready. But neither one of these was the case...Also, she showed us to a table in the centre of the room rather than one with a view - even though none of the tables was occupied - which also seemed 'automatic', part of the protocol - and she seemed flummoxed when we asked if we could sit by the window.

[sNIP]

- but the other side of it is the annoying little glitches, like not being able to see a menu, having to wait for a table when it was obviously ready, etc.etc...

[sNIP]

But as mentioned, I think they're going to get panned by the critics who have an experience similar to mine...

←

Thanks for the acute observations, magnolia. Do you think that this type of opening malaise is systemic in British restaurants, i.e. where the service staff is unprepared (or unwilling) to take common sense initiatives? Your impressions seem to support the notion that the opening crew was either 'three ring binder' trained (i.e. to react by rote), or severly undertrained to the point where they will impair the business.

The food sounds interesting though. Perhaps with service repaired it will thrive as a daylight restaurant.

Edited October 23, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[camp_dick]

Roast (is) a gorgeous space, and I had a nice meal but it's going to get skewered by critics and diners alike if it doesn't shape up really fast...

I'd be interested in hearing from restaurant professionals as to whether my experience is typical of the first week in the life of a restaurant...  But as mentioned, I think they're going to get panned by the critics who have an experience similar to mine...

←

It's common practice to have a discounted 'soft opening' period that allows for staff training and - because all builders in London are liars, apparently - finishing off the decor. Yes, you were a guinea pig: that's why they charged you half price. This also protects operators from early reviewers. In the case of Roast (crap name, IMO: 'Toast' would have been better. Or 'Braise') Lord Wahab has already bribed the press with free meals, as seen in The Independent (which isn't) and can rely on his special relationship with The Only London Critic Who Really Matters, which was cemented by giving young Ben Maschler a paid internship in his PR agency, back in the day. Now, that's what I call far sighted

[jamiemaw]

In the case of Roast (crap name, IMO: 'Toast' would have been better. Or 'Braise')

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I quite like the name. Equal parts John Bull/Blighty/Empire-Raj/Self Defecating. Besides, my drunken concierge should be able to remember it.

[camp_dick]

I quite like the name. Equal parts John Bull/Blighty/Empire-Raj/Self Defecating.

←

Are you saying it's shit?

[magnolia]

Thanks for the acute observations, magnolia. Do you think that this type of opening malaise is systemic in British restaurants, i.e. where the service staff is unprepared (or unwilling) to take common sense initiatives? Your impressions seem to support the notion that the opening crew was either 'three ring binder' trained (i.e. to react by rote), or severly undertrained to the point where they will impair the business.

The food sounds interesting though. Perhaps with service repaired it will thrive as a daylight restaurant.

←

Difficult to say because I try to avoid going to restaurants in the first week of opening, even when my professional hat is on.

I can say that I was very surprised that someone with Wahhab's far-sightedness and vast experience (I'm aware of much of what has been noted above, which makes him sound cynical when in fact he's a marketing genius and only doing what a good restaurateur who wants to get the punters in *should* do...employing Ben Maschler and plying critics is par - it's the critics you should be lambasting, for accepting freebies and responding with slobber, if that's what they have done - not Wahhab...) would not have had everything exactly down pat before even a soft-opening. I do know that any respectable critic would have noticed at least the bumps I noticed, and there were probably other glitches too. I haven't read the reviews though so I don't know if they were from written from the free meal-and-alcohol-soaked heights of cloud-cuckoo-land...

[jayrayner]

←

Thanks for the acute observations, magnolia. Do you think that this type of opening malaise is systemic in British restaurants, i.e. where the service staff is unprepared (or unwilling) to take common sense initiatives? Your impressions seem to support the notion that the opening crew was either 'three ring binder' trained (i.e. to react by rote), or severly undertrained to the point where they will impair the business.

The food sounds interesting though. Perhaps with service repaired it will thrive as a daylight restaurant.

←

Difficult to say because I try to avoid going to restaurants in the first week of opening, even when my professional hat is on.

I can say that I was very surprised that someone with Wahhab's far-sightedness and vast experience (I'm aware of much of what has been noted above, which makes him sound cynical when in fact he's a marketing genius and only doing what a good restaurateur who wants to get the punters in *should* do...employing Ben Maschler and plying critics is par - it's the critics you should be lambasting, for accepting freebies and responding with slobber, if that's what they have done - not Wahhab...) would not have had everything exactly down pat before even a soft-opening. I do know that any respectable critic would have noticed at least the bumps I noticed, and there were probably other glitches too. I haven't read the reviews though so I don't know if they were from written from the free meal-and-alcohol-soaked heights of cloud-cuckoo-land...

←

Everything you describe is why I would never review on a soft opening, nor - and don't take this the wrong way - pay the slightest bit of attention to anything that I heard had occurred during one. No, it doesn't sound good. But they still have time to get their shit together.

[camp_dick]

(I'm aware of much of what has been noted above, which makes him sound cynical when in fact he's a marketing genius and only doing what a good restaurateur who wants to get the punters in *should* do...employing Ben Maschler and plying critics is par - it's the critics you should be lambasting, for accepting freebies and responding with slobber, if that's what they have done - not Wahhab...)

I agree. I'm the cynic, not his Lordship.

[camp_dick]

I can say that I was very surprised that someone with Wahhab's far-sightedness and vast experience ... would not have had everything exactly down pat before even a soft-opening. 

←

How is it possible to get your restaurant running smoothly before taking possession of the premises?

I haven't read the reviews though so I don't know if they were from written from the free meal-and-alcohol-soaked heights of cloud-cuckoo-land...

←

The article we're referring to - which kicked off this thread - was a preview, or a puff piece, rather than a review. The Independent does employ a respectable restaurant critic (as well )

[jamiemaw]

I can say that I was very surprised that someone with Wahhab's far-sightedness and vast experience ... would not have had everything exactly down pat before even a soft-opening. 

←

How is it possible to get your restaurant running smoothly before taking possession of the premises?

←

The fact that you asked this question, dick, certainly answered mine.

Thanks for the acute observations, magnolia. Do you think that this type of opening malaise is systemic in British restaurants, i.e. where the service staff is unprepared (or unwilling) to take common sense initiatives?

Edited October 24, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[magnolia]

I can say that I was very surprised that someone with Wahhab's far-sightedness and vast experience ... would not have had everything exactly down pat before even a soft-opening. 

←

How is it possible to get your restaurant running smoothly before taking possession of the premises?

←

The fact that you asked this question certainly answered mine.

Thanks for the acute observations, magnolia. Do you think that this type of opening malaise is systemic in British restaurants, i.e. where the service staff is unprepared (or unwilling) to take common sense initiatives?

←

Sorry if I was unclear.

I meant that I was surprised that things were not running smoothly before it was open to the public (i.e. last week), not that they weren't running smoothly before he took possession (i.e. several months ago). I would have thought that even for a soft-opening, a seasoned restaurateur would make sure service was far less tentative than it was.

However this is exactly why I asked whether anyone else had a point of view on this. I.e. what is to be expected for a soft opening? I feel it's not unreasonable for a paying customer - even one paying 50% off - to expect that if a restaurant allows you to sit down, they are ready to deal with you.

The discount is not meant to compensate for lack of readiness or poor service; it's meant to entice you to try a new place.

Edited October 24, 2005 by magnolia (log)

[camp_dick]

I meant that I was surprised that things were not running smoothly before it was open to the public (i.e. last week), not that they weren't running smoothly before he took possession (i.e. several months ago). I would have thought that even for a soft-opening, a seasoned restaurateur would make sure service was far less  tentative than it was. 

Without in any way wanting to patronise, you clearly don't understand the financial pressures that operate in London. You secure a lease on premises and, if you're smart, or lucky, negotiate a honeymoon period with the freeholder during which you pay no rent, or a reduced rate. Then you send in the builders to do the refurb. You can make 'em sign a contract with a default clause, if you like, but it won't make any difference: they still won't finish on time, or to budget. You've paid your decorating team a retainer, but they can't get in before the builders have finished. You recruit staff and agree a start date, when you're obliged to begin paying them. But anything that can go wrong probably will to hold you up and incur more expense. (Iqbal was talking about this Roast place at least ten months ago. Although that long delay had more to do with wooing the freeholders than dodgy builders). If you've informed the media of an opening date (more fool you!) you've really got to keep to it or risk looking foolish, or blowing the whole launch strategy... You see where I'm going with this? Restaurateurs rarely take full possession of their spanking new restaurants more than a day or two (sometimes, an hour or so) before swinging the doors open to the general public and they never know exactly how the place is going to work, ergonomically, or in terms of 'work flow' (dread phrase!) before it's actually operating at capacity. And then, along comes Fay Maschler to say the place is no good and - kaboom - it's game over. Or, Fay Maschler may come along and say the place is fantastic - as with Yau@Cha - and your phone lines go into meltdown, the new staff cannot cope and your customers' goodwill evaporates like - er - something that evaporates...

[jamiemaw]

The soft opening is designed to break in staff and kitchen. That's one reason why the prices are relaxed. Fair dinkum. But why not train staff off-site, the way it's done in the other western democracies? When empty tables go unbussed in an otherwise empty room, it seems there might be deeper issues afoot--I think that was the crux of magnolia's observations.

The concept makes sense; the proprietor is experienced; the food sounds good. Let's hope Roast settles in quickly for a good long run. That being said, I look forward to more members' critical observations before dropping my emasculated, third world currency there.

Edited October 24, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[camp_dick]

But why not train staff off-site, the way it's done in the other western democracies?

←

Where would you suggest? Maybe they could have made a replica of the restaurant in a shed somewhere in the 'burbs. Wouldn't that be a tad 'Self Defecating'

Seriously, though, the success of the London restaurant scene has left a serious dearth of decent waiting staff. See Clement Freud's review of Maze f'rinstance: new restaurant of the year and still the service lacks lustre.

[jamiemaw]

But why not train staff off-site, the way it's done in the other western democracies?

←

Where would you suggest? Maybe they could have made a replica of the restaurant in a shed somewhere in the 'burbs. Wouldn't that be a tad 'Self Defecating'

Seriously, though, the success of the London restaurant scene has left a serious dearth of decent waiting staff. See Clement Freud's review of Maze f'rinstance: new restaurant of the year and still the service lacks lustre.

←

I've noticed. And if you read the linked thread through, you'll see that yes, staff should be trained off-site.

Replication of premises is not required, especially when the proprietor owns a perfectly good restaurant nearby that's available all day Saturday and Sunday, and during the rest of the week for partnered training shifts.

The training manuals are for home study, with weekly tests and an 80% passing grade. Three fails and you're out. But experienced FOH staff (the 'opening team') are factored into the service mix from the established restaurant etc.

This system benefits customer, server and proprietor.

[camp_dick]

Replication of premises is not required, especially when the proprietor owns a perfectly good restaurant nearby that's available all day Saturday and Sunday, and during the rest of the week for partnered training shifts. 

You think Iqbal Wahhab owns The Cinnamon Club and can do what he likes there? Next you'll be suggesting that he borrow a restaurant for staff training from one of his friendly rivals...

The training manuals are for home study, with weekly tests and an 80% passing grade. Three fails and you're out. But experienced FOH staff (the 'opening team') are factored into the service mix from the established restaurant etc.

There just aren't enough 'experienced FOH staff' to go round and the best ones stay put. When it comes to hiring waiters, if they can walk upright and speak reasonably intelligible English (forget about actually being able to read your operations manual) you can't afford to sack them.

This system benefits customer, server and proprietor.

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No doubt and I can't wait for you and Magnolia to open your own London restaurant, where the service will no doubt be impeccable and you'll altruistically give meals away at half price to entice customers to try the place.

I refuse to put myself in the position of defending abysmal service in London restaurants - I'm frequently pissed off by it - but do you really think that none of your perfectly sensible ideas has occurred to successful London restaurateurs? Service isn't bad over here because nobody cares, or understands what constitutes good service. (Or maybe it is deliberate and that's a part of the Roast concept of Englishness!)

[Pweaver1984]

Heres a link to there quite indepth and informative Website

Paul

[magnolia]

There just aren't enough 'experienced FOH staff' to go round and the best ones stay put. When it comes to hiring waiters, if they can walk upright and speak reasonably intelligible English (forget about actually being able to read your operations manual) you can't afford to sack them.

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Well, doesn't that tell you something?

It tells me that a) it's such an undesirable, underpaid job that nobody wants to do it, so it's either a job of last resort or one that is a 'plan b' while the person figures out how to do whatever it is they really want to do in life; or b) it's such a highly skilled job, and one that's so difficult to do, there are only a few very special types who can do it well.

Most of all, it tells me that something about the restaurant business here just doesn't work.

No doubt and I can't wait for you and Magnolia to open your own London restaurant, where the service will no doubt be impeccable and you'll altruistically give meals away at half price to entice customers to try the place.

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Jamie, what do you think?! Maybe - factoring in tips - both your and my wage-per-hour would increase significantly!

I refuse to put myself in the position of defending abysmal service in London restaurants - I'm frequently pissed off by it - but do you really think that none of your perfectly sensible ideas has occurred to successful London restaurateurs? Service isn't bad over here because nobody cares, or understands what constitutes good service. (Or maybe it is deliberate and that's a part of the Roast concept of Englishness!)

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But you are in fact making excuses. If these ideas are indeed perfectly sensible, then yes, someone will have thought of them - particularly a seasoned, well-funded, experienced restaurateur and marketing genius like Iqbal Wahhab. If they are not serviceable, then it's only that he's decided that for whatever reason, it's not worth his while to carry them out. Service over here is bad because customers accept bad service and then say 'please sir, may I have some more'?

We've all been to cities - even countries - where service is a whole lot better, as is value for money. What are they doing differently in these places ?

[camp_dick]

particularly a seasoned, well-funded, experienced restaurateur and marketing genius like Iqbal Wahhab.

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I think he's still single, magnolia, but he may be too busy to read e-gullet!

This thread seems to have turned into a discussion about how crap the general standard of restaurant service is in London. Thing is, I don't disagree. I've just tried to explain some of the practicalities of the situation. You're right about waiters being under valued and underpaid - many are clocking minimum wage (£5.05 p/h) plus tips. Some so-called 'restaurateurs' actually pay less than minimum in the expectation that the balance will be made up in tips. And that's legal! Many people in London object to tipping when a service charge (usually 12.5%) has already been levied, but a lot of restaurant companies divert a proportion of that charge to cover laundry costs, etc. Talking of which, I notice that Conran now offer a flat £6.98.

Service over here is bad because customers accept bad service and then say 'please sir, may I have some more'?

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Right, masochism is deeply ingrained into our national psyche.

We've all been to cities - even countries - where service is a whole lot better, as is value for money. What are they doing differently in these places ?

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I imagine overheads are lower, waiter service is seen as more of a metier and everyone on the floor gets a fair cut of the tronc. But here there are no rules and lowly waiters have no rights.

[magnolia]

I think he's still single, magnolia, but he may be too busy to read e-gullet!

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[camp_dick]

What is conran now offering a flat £6.98 for?

That's the hourly rate specified in an ad I saw for staff @ Quaglino's. (I was thinking of applying, for amusement. But it's not that funny, is it?) Conran had a major bust up with the Inland Revenue a few years ago (because tips are theoretically taxable unless - like you and I - punters leave cash) and I *guess* they've resolved the issue by not passing on any of the service charge. (I could easily be wrong).

Right, masochism is deeply ingrained into our national psyche.

Time for you to say 'I'm mad as Hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore

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Now you see, there I was being sarcastic.

And as Scarlett O'Hara noticed, a lot of it  comes down to the price of real estate...

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Bingo. Surreal eat state. Plus, a lot if not most of the money going into restaurants these days is coming from those fabled hedge fund managers with the multi million pound salaries and aggressive business sense. The reason Iqbal can't use Cinnamon Club to train staff for Roast is that they are separate businesses. In fact the Cinnamon Club backers tried to depose his Lordship a while back. Actually, they did, but the business immediately started falling apart, so he was swiftly reinstated...