NYC French Bistrots

[slkinsey]

Hmmm... interesting list, jgould. Especially interesting that you call for a number of what I would call "faux French" affectations (viz. accents, music, curtains, etc.). To my way of thinking, these specifications call more for a "Disneyland bistro" approach, trying to duplicate the real thing in a foreign environment. One can only truly have a French bistro in France, of course. A New York French bistro should IMO naturally reflect the fact that it is in New York. Anything else is, to me, an artificial "bistroland." To my mind, if a restaurant is serving classic French bistro fare in a setting that is appropriately evocative of the important elements that define the French model, without slavishly imitating it but rather translating those elements into the NYC milieu... this is the kind of place I'm looking for.

[jgould]

Hmmm... interesting list, jgould.  Especially interesting that you call for a number of what I would call "faux French" affectations (viz. accents, music, curtains, etc.).  To my way of thinking, these specifications call more for a "Disneyland bistro" approach, trying to duplicate the real thing in a foreign environment.  One can only truly have a French bistro in France, of course.  A New York French bistro should IMO naturally reflect the fact that it is in New York.  Anything else is, to me, an artificial "bistroland."  To my mind, if a restaurant is serving classic French bistro fare in a setting that is appropriately evocative of the important elements that define the French model, without slavishly imitating it but rather translating those elements into the NYC milieu... this is the kind of place I'm looking for.

←

your key words: "to my way of thinking", "IMO", "to me", "to my mind", "i'm looking for"; are just that - what interests YOU.

i described my thoughts as to what i believe a french bistro should encompass in nyc, & was careful to avoid any view that others should feel the same. everyone is entitled to their opinion as to what constitutes a nyc french bistro. to describe these as "affectations" or a "disneyland bistro" is bizarre. one man's thoughts or opinions are not anothers idea; however, its clear the topic i'm discussing is something a little more subtle than perhaps your critique, but thanks anyway for opening up the discussion.

[phaelon56]

Mon Petit Cafe - up near Bloomie's on or near Lex and 59th - would seem to meet most all of jgould's criteria except for the lighting level (it's a bit bright for my tastes). That said... I've never seen anyone raving about it although I've had a few solid and consistent meals there. despite the fact that it would seem to meet nearly all the specified criteria... it doesn't say bistro to me - not really sure why.

[slkinsey]

your key words: "to my way of thinking", "IMO", "to me", "to my mind", "i'm looking for"; are just that - what interests YOU.

i described my thoughts as to what i believe a french bistro should encompass in nyc, & was careful to avoid any view that others should feel the same. everyone is entitled to their opinion as to what constitutes a nyc french bistro. to describe these as "affectations" or a "disneyland bistro" is bizarre. one man's thoughts or opinions are not anothers idea; however, its clear the topic i'm discussing is something a little more subtle than perhaps your critique, but thanks anyway for opening up the discussion.

jgould, I wouldn't have put in "IMO" and those other qualifiers you cite had I not meant to express something that is my opinion as it relates to me.

If you don't want to address my points as to slavishly reproducing in NYC a French bistro as it is in France, that's your own call. But it's not as interesting as not taking offense and continuing the conversation.

[menton1]

Thanks for the heads-up on Le Qunize-- sounds like a must to avoid!

An extensive list of wines by the glass is a positive factor, though I've not found that to remind me of France.

That's true, in France you would have to get a small carafe called "un quart"

a fairly large french population

Well, 10,000 in a city of 8 million is kind of miniscule...

Since we've also included the boroughs, I want to give a good word for Tournesol in LIC Queens. I think it might actually meet all 7 of jgould's criteria!!

[hshiau]

Since we've also included the boroughs, I want to give a good word for Tournesol in LIC Queens.  I think it might actually meet all 7 of jgould's criteria!!

←

I second Tournesol. Great atmosphere. Great food.

[hathor]

So...what exactly is a bistro?

To me, its a neighborhood joint that serves French food. That's what it is in Paris. You don't travel to go to a bistro, you fall into a bistro, and return often for the homey comfort of steak frites and a glass of wine. Fortunately my very, all time favorite bistro in Paris is: dimly lit and nary a piece of lace anywhere, including on the proprietoress (she always wears white pants, its easy to figure out). So, does that make it less of a bistro? Not to me.

Balthazar is a brasserie, make a reservation as you would in Paris.

Back to NY Bistos:

Luckystrike on Grand St. noisy, crowded with locals

Bistro Le Jardin: has lace curtains

and there is a great place on Ave. A that I can't think of the name...

[rooftop1000]

well

I unfortunatley havent been to a bistro in France....not for lack of begging but in the Village how about Chez Jaquelline 72 MacDougal St. Its been 2 years since we wandered in off the street but still a memorable meal 3 of us ( really memorable) Hubby had crab cakes and one of the best steaks he ever had, our 16yr old went for escarots and seared duck breast and I had brandad and the duck also, no wine driving back to NJ right after dinner, no dessert (stopped for ice cream) $95 plus tip.

Brandad is just an evil thing how could you sit at a table dreaming about scooping "mashed potatoes" on to bread but with the garlic and cod mingling in there it almost seems like a dip for crostini...mmmmmm

hmmm stores are full of salt cod right now arent they

Tracey

[hathor]

Chez Jacq' is wonderful! But...I think it falls into the brasserie category. We've been going there for many, many years. Jacqueline is a lovely lady and mother. The green bean and chicken liver salad is one of my all time favorites, the crunch of the bean giving way to the soft, warm and slightly salty chicken liver. Divine and decadent.

When our son was about 7 or 8 he was a slave to ketchup. We were having dinner there one night, and our waiter Eric (a slightly mad Frenchman with the most gorgeous blue eyes) was appalled when our son asked for ketchup. Refused to bring it to him and introduced our young son to the joys of bernaise sauce. Our son still thanks him to this day.

p.s. Brandade is a gift from the gods!

[Pumpkin Lover]

Does French Roast count? 'Cause I love me some French Roast.

[jgould]

Thanks for the heads-up on Le Qunize--  sounds like a must to avoid!

An extensive list of wines by the glass is a positive factor, though I've not found that to remind me of France.

That's true, in France you would have to get a small carafe called "un quart"

a fairly large french population

Well, 10,000 in a city of 8 million is kind of miniscule...

Since we've also included the boroughs, I want to give a good word for Tournesol in LIC Queens. I think it might actually meet all 7 of jgould's criteria!!

←

interestingly, the owners of tournesol are the same as le quinze! & it is more than 10,000 , but less than 100,000 FYI

Edited December 8, 2004 by jgould (log)

[Pan]

and there is a great place on Ave. A that I can't think of the name...

←

You don't mean Casimir, do you? I guess not; they're on Av. B. That place looks like a bistro, and I like to go to their bar and get mojitos, but the one time I got food there, their moules marinieres were barely tolerable, almost too old. That was a long time ago, however, pretty soon after they opened, so perhaps the food got better.

[menton1]

interestingly, the owners of tournesol are the same as le quinze! & it is more than 10,000 , but less than 100,000 FYI

Well I just checked the nyc.gov census figures for 2000. The total French population in NYC (by country of origin) is 12,436.

It is amazing that Le Quinze is so bad while Tournesol is so good... Only one of the partners, M. Escriout, is also a partner in Tournesol. Perhaps that explains it.

Has anyone been to Village, on 9th St and 6th Ave?

[Nathan]

Le Quinze isn't that bad...it's roughly comparable to the old standbys like Le Petite Auberge or Coquette....

Gavroche is pretty good.

Casimir is decent enough (at least when taking its low prices into consideration).

Flea Market on Avenue A may have been what the previous poster was referring to...it's decent enough but the one time I ate there I had a server with massive BO (it was a hot day but still...)...granted some may consider that an "authentic" component.

although others disagree I was always partial to Cafe Leibowitz before it closed.

Take away the tourists and Les Halles almost qualifies.

[oakapple]

So...what exactly is a bistro?

To me, its a neighborhood joint that serves French food. That's what it is in Paris. You don't travel to go to a bistro, you fall into a bistro, and return often for the homey comfort of steak frites and a glass of wine.

←

That's probably true in general, but DB Bistro Moderne is more than just a neighborhood place. On the other hand, perhaps Daniel Boulud is yanking our chain when he calls that restaurant a "bistro."

Edited December 8, 2004 by oakapple (log)

[Benito417]

I have heard really excellent things about Lucien on First Avenue right above Houston Street. I looked in the other day and it appeared to fit the bistro description to a T. Im curious about what others think of Lucien, both in terms of food and in terms of bistro authenticity.

[jogoode]

I have heard really excellent things about Lucien on First Avenue right above Houston Street. I looked in the other day and it appeared to fit the bistro description to a T. Im curious about what others think of Lucien, both in terms of food and in terms of bistro authenticity.

←

Welcome, Benito!

I've passed by Lucien countless times and have always wanted to try it. Here's Asimov's review from 1998.

Another one I've always wanted to try is Quercy, in Brooklyn.

[zeitoun]

I know this is a Manhattan bistro thread however, I felt compelled to drop one in for all the Brooklynites out there. It is interesting to note that the French bistros you frequent in Manhattan most likely employ young French hopefuls who now call Brooklyn their home. This slow and massive exodus to the other side of the Brooklyn Bridge is now accountable for the flock of little French bistros that have suddenly dotted the Brooklyn map. These little French neighborhood joints are mostly located in the Fort Green and Cobble Hill areas, with some making their appearance in Red Hook. To name a few: A Table, Ici, Bacchus, Cafe Lulu, Banania Cafe, Bar Tabac, Quercy (thanks jogoode), 360, and the list goes on...The chef who was at the helm of Demarcheliers on Houston St. just opened a bistro on Atlantic Ave, can't remember the name though.

I tried most of them and my favorites are 360 (chef worked at Lespinasse and Le Cirque) and Ici (chef spent several years at Daniel). Bacchus is not bad either. I would recommend them to anyone willing to make the trip from Manhattan.

[Pan]

I had some very old fish at Lucien I suppose several years ago and never went back. I'd love to hear from any of you as to whether their fish and seafood are fresh nowadays, as the place was pleasant aside from the fish, and not too expensive, had the food been fresh.

[Daniel]

just came back from french roast... Uhmmm, anyone know a place that doesnt suck around here?

[Pumpkin Lover]

I take it you didn't like French Roast. ::sob::

[juuceman]

I had some very old fish at Lucien I suppose several years ago and never went back. I'd love to hear from any of you as to whether their fish and seafood are fresh nowadays, as the place was pleasant aside from the fish, and not too expensive, had the food been fresh.

←

i've had the boulibase there and enjoyed it immensely.. lot of fish, including some huge crab legs..

[emilymarie]

I take it you didn't like French Roast. ::sob::

←

I spent 4 years during college sitting thru meals at French Roast on the UWS, and, well, I have NEVER been a fan. It might meet some people's criteria as a bistro, though: It's very much a neighborhood joint, open 24 hours (or at least seems to be) a day, and is a place you can on most nights just drop in to for some steak frites and a glass of wine. I, personally, have never found the food that good, or even acceptable for the prices they charge and I've always found the service rude. Not worth it in my opinion. And, you could say that it's kind of kitschy French, with faux French everything. But on the more important points I think it could quality as a bistro, just not my favorite.

[Pumpkin Lover]

I guess you're right, emilymarie (a Columbia alum like me, I assume?) Same thing here, it was the closest French restaurant to us (well, excluding Le Monde, which gets a ::barf::).

But, I like French Roast, only because I'd get really simple-ass stuff there, like "le macaroni au cheese," and stuff like that. I actually have never had the steak frites or the other really traditional bistro fare there.

My sister had the duck pate there this weekend and brought some home; it was quite delicious. They do the simple stuff well there, and I never had a problem w/service.

We started going to Nice Matin when it opened--I think that was my senior year, first semester. But, that's not a bistro... is it?

[BigboyDan]

just came back from french roast... Uhmmm, anyone know a place that doesnt suck around here?

←

Sure. But they only serve pizza and cheescake.