NYC French Bistrots

[Bux]

Jubilee--midtown east--is great for mussels and fries. I can't say I've ever had much more there. I don't know why. It's possible that I go there thinking of mussels and fries, that I've ordered other things that didn't please but don't really remember when, or just that nothing else appealed on the menu. Tables are small and when four people are having moules frites, there's just not enough room on the table to put everything.

Demarchelier opened a place on Houston street some time back. We tried it. It was one of the saddest evenings. Nothing was really acceptable. It went from bad to worse. I know it was new, but we couldn't bring oursleves to return. It was a totally depressing evening. I overtipped the waiter because I was sure he'd be out of work soon.

[Suzanne F]

Looking over that list, all I could think was, "It's been ages since we had real French food." I've been to 7 of the 19, but not for many years.

[jgould]

Jgould, it might be helpful if you could provide a bit more context in rating all of those restaurants.

I note that all of those restaurants are French, although I'm not sure exactly what genre they all constitute (i.e., all bistro as opposed to cafe-style places as opposed to the cuisine of a specific region of France).

Should also note that even though Montparnasse is located across the street from my apartment, I've never been there (not to mention, I've never been to any of the places you mention).

My favorite French place is Country Cafe, on Thompson Street in SoHo. Friendly bistro, wonderful lobster bisque, tarte tatin.

Soba

fair enough: it is a list of bistro-like places around the city which are good solid restaurants. easy to walk in & have a good meal at a reasonable price either at a table or at the bar.

usually, but can be hit-or-miss, will find "real" french people either in the restaurant or behind the bar/kitchen.

this forum is such a wonderful place for many to debate, comment, express; that i thought a thread like this might be interesting. hopefully it is??? this listing is a compilation of geographically located places to easily access with a french motif, which is my personal favorite.

u should try montparnasse & bateau ivre, at the very least, proximity for 1 good reason; as well as the other midtown east places mentioned - i think (hope) u will enjoy.

jublilee (east) serves good food in addition to the mussels & frites, & i am always, for some reason, surprised it is as good as it is. fact: most in the restaurant are neighborhood regulars, i.e., 2-3x/wk!!!!

demarchelier's experiment downtown WAS terrible, & it subsequently closed. the same experiment, le select, on the UWS, also closed (now jean-luc) leaving the original on 86th nr madison. same deal as jubilee, neighborhood regulars, friendly bar, with unfortunately a few boors that can be irritating (all the facts here )

[Felonius]

good or bad: don't be bashful!

ues: demarchelier, ferrier, orsay, la goulue, l'absinthe, le clown, quartorze bis, jacque's bistro

les: le pere pinard

midtown east: montparnasse, le bateau ivre, jubilee, les halles, madison bistro,

uws: cafe luxembourg

midtown west: la bonne soupe, un deux trois

w. village: chez jacqueline

soho: raoul's

For what it's worth, here's my brief take on the places I've visited in the past year.

Ferrier - more about the people watching scene than the food. If I remember correctly the prices weren't too bad for the neighborhood. I usually go for lunch and get the fruits de mer salad, which I like. Haven't had much else on the menu for a while, so hard to give much of a review.

La Goulue - this place is even more of a "scene to be seen in" thing than Ferrier. Quite expensive for the quality of the food offered, but a very attractive dining room made even better in the Spring/Summer due to the open front. Most of the crowd seems to be multi-millionaire upper East siders, Europeans, and ladies who lunch. My usual pick for food is the duck confit salad. A good traditional confit, though the portion is rather puny. Other French bistro items are usually competently done, but nothing special. Many of the staff here are French, and the ladies who lunch often gossip/flirt with them in French.

Orsay - in my opinion, better food in general than La Goulue and Ferrier, at a price point in between the two. Last time I went I had some sort of special pizza with prosciutto and white truffle oil that was sublime. Other French standards are usualy pretty good. Still a bit expensive, but given the neighborhood that's to be expected. Nice bistro atmosphere but can be very loud at peak times.

Le Pere Pinard - only been twice but had pretty good food. I really like the atmosphere, laid back and fun. Sometimes they have a DJ spinning tunes. This is a much "younger" place than the UES venues you've mentioned, and a good place to take a first date. If I remember correctly, it's fairly inexpensive by NYC standards, but again this is not unusual given the neighborhood.

Les Halles - a regular destination for me in NYC. I go for the hanger steak with frites, which I think is one of the better renditions of this classic in the city. The nice shallot/red wine reduction served on the side adds an extra element to the well-executed steak frites. It's also a good deal at something like $18.00. The wine list is one of the more interesting small French lists in the city, with many offerings by the glass. Wine markup is extremely reasonable by NYC standards, and many truly nice bottles can be had for under $45. The place is usually very crowded and noisy, and conversation can be difficult at peak hours. Though I usualy stick with the steak, other traditional French dishes I've had there have been good. Given the price/quality ratio, I think this is one of the best "French bistro" options in NYC.

Cafe Luxembourg - Attractive dining room, medium to high prices, average to below average food. I live a few blocks away and have had enough disappointing meals to have given up on it. The only reason I'd go is if you need a decent post-theater option within walking distance of Lincoln Center, as Cafe Lux serves later than most places in the vicinity. Definitely not a spot I'd travel any distance for. I've never seen a French person here dining or working. They wouldn't put up with the food!

Other places in a similar vein in the city that I think are worth a try:

Le Jardin Bistro (Cleveland Place between Kenmare and Spring St.) - inexpensive French bistro with good versions of the classics. Nice steak frites. A very pleasant garden out back with al fresco dining in season is reasong to dine here alone. I often try this place when I need a last minute reservation, as they can usually offer a table inside, even if the garden is full. Wine list is limited but inexpensive. This is one of the few places on your list that I travel to as a destination. There are real French people behind the bar and in the kitchen here.

Le Bilboquet (63rd between Park and Madison) - If you're looking for people watching on the UES, this is cheaper and more fun than La Goulue. Food is usually decent, and I like the steak frites (although here it is a sirloin au poivre rather than the classic hanger steak). Very small so it can be hard to get a table. Usually it's full of French expats and aging models, and the staff is mostly French.

Balthazar and Pastis - Expensive and hard to get a table at peak times, but both do quality renditions of many French bistro classics. As much as I hate to admit it, these trendy see-and-be-seen restaurants offer better French bistro food than much of the competition in NYC.

JGould, you may want to see if you can rename this thread with a more specific title such as "Rating French Bistros in NYC" (is it possible to do that on this system?). That way more people with specific knowledge may post, and others in the future will have any easier time searching for relevant info.

Edited February 18, 2004 by Felonius (log)

[jgould]

good or bad: don't be bashful!

Cafe Luxembourg - enough disappointing meals to have given up on it. Cafe Lux serves later than most places in the vicinity. Definitely not a spot I'd travel any distance for. I've never seen a French person here dining or working. They wouldn't put up with the food!

Other places in a similar vein in the city that I think are worth a try:

Le Jardin Bistro (Cleveland Place between Kenmare and Spring St.) - inexpensive French bistro with good versions of the classics. There are real French people behind the bar and in the kitchen here.

Le Bilboquet (63rd between Park and Madison) - cheaper and more fun than La Goulue. Usually it's full of French expats and aging models, and the staff is mostly French.

Balthazar and Pastis - Expensive and hard to get a table at peak times, but both do quality renditions of many French bistro classics. As much as I hate to admit it, these trendy see-and-be-seen restaurants offer better French bistro food than much of the competition in NYC.

JGould, you may want to see if you can rename this thread with a more specific title such as "Rating French Bistros in NYC" (is it possible to do that on this system?). That way more people with specific knowledge may post, and others in the future will have any easier time searching for relevant info.

excellent comments felonius, but do not know how to rename, but the subject title is correct & accurate. as i stated to soba, this thread deals with restaurants/bistros (french themed due to my preference) that are not as trendy as a balthazar/pastis AND easy to walk in, etc...

re: jardin bistro - disqualified from my list because of no bar to sit

re: cafe lux - agree totally! don't know why i keep going back, other than it strikes me as one of the more french-LIKE places in manhattan, similar to quartorze bis, & 1 of the very few that i "relax" my classic definition of what a nyc bistro setting should be like. hopefully i will be allowed my 1 liberal definition of what (i think) a french bistro in nyc should be, even without the necessary touch of french people as customers & working.

very much appreciated your observations, & hope others chime in re: the listing, which is the purpose of the thread.

Edited February 18, 2004 by jgould (log)

[Pan]

J, what name would you like for this thread? Tell us, and one of us will change its name.

[jgould]

J, what name would you like for this thread? Tell us, and one of us will change its name.

thx very much, but i think the name is ok. however, if u or felonious or soba think a better name would be more descriptive, i have no problem - thx

[picaman]

For what it's worth, I dined at Raoul's last year. We went early without a reservation and were treated very nicely, even though they were tremendously busy. I had the short ribs and bison carpaccio to start--I thought the food was well presented and uniformly flavorful. Desserts, coffee and kir were all good as well.

I know a lot of people are down on Raoul's as being past its prime, but I thoroughly enjoyed my meal there. It was a bit expensive, but to my mind was a decent enough value for the price given the ingredients and preparation.

Jamie

[GordonCooks]

The Steak Frites at Montparnasse is quite good.

[hathor]

Raoul's: I've been going there off and an on...since they opened, and I have to say, they are past their prime. The last time we were there, food was boring, tastes were bland and even the wait staff was uninterested. No French to be found...

Jardin Bistro: excellent neighborhood bistro. There is a small bar to hang out at if you are waiting for a table, but its not that comfortable. Great soupe de poisson.

[rozrapp]

L'Absinthe: Dinner once several years ago. Food was excellent. Very attractive room. Upscale, fashionably dressed clientele.

Montparnasse: Dinner once two summers ago. Really liked the food. That was before current chef/part owner, Philippe Roussell, came on board. He cooked for a while at Park Bistro, a place we patronize regularly, so I know his food is very good. I thought the room was pleasant and comfortable. We keep intending to go back....

(Note to Soba: If I lived across the street, I would be there regularly. This means that you live right near Amma as well. Lucky you!!)

Les Halles: While I like the food, I’m too old to tolerate the sardine-like seating and the ear-splitting noise level, so we stopped going there.

Madison Bistro: One totally disappointing dinner.

La Bonne Soupe: I think the last time I ate there was sometime during the late ‘70’s or early ‘80’s. I remember it as a cute place with decent food.

Café Un Deux Trois: One lunch last year. Mediocre food.

I mentioned Park Bistro above. It should be on the list. Though there have been a number of different chefs (I think the restaurant has been open for 12 years), the food has always remained consistently good. We’re semi-regulars, so we know the owner, the maitre d’ and a lot of the staff. However, I’ve watched and noticed that they treat all customers well. We’ve never had difficulty getting a table, but we rarely go there on a Saturday night.

I will also add La Petite Auberge, our favorite old-fashioned bistro. We've been going there every so often since it opened more than 25 years ago. It has remained under the same ownership. We were just there last week and, though the place was busy, we had no trouble getting a table at the last minute. The ambiance is pleasant (the posters on the walls bring back memories of our travels in Brittany); our server was a young man who was very personable, as well as efficient; and, as always, the food was well prepared and delicious. (Grand Marnier soufflé )

[SobaAddict70]

My problem is that whilst I like French bistros, I'm not that much of a fan that I would "go to Montparnasse all the time". Once in a while is all right -- more like once every three months or so. I might check Montparnasse out if you recommend it, but my taste in food runs more towards Italian (read: Babbo/Lupa as opposed to Italian-American) and New American (Home/Eleven Madison Park/Gramercy Tavern) with a healthy dash of Indian/Asian thrown in. Also, I prefer downtown locations.

Been to Le Jardin Bistro but haven't been back in quite a while. My recollection is that the steak frites were fairly good as were the moules marinere (sp). Jarnac is also another favorite of mine, again haven't been there in a while. Their rendition of cassoulet is amazing.

Soba

[picaman]

Jarnac is also another favorite of mine, again haven't been there in a while. Their rendition of cassoulet is amazing.

Soba

I'll second Jarnac--I've eaten there several times and have never been disappointed.

Jamie

[hathor]

I went uptown...once.

Where is Jarnac? I do love cassoulet.

Chez Jacqueline is also a fine choice for a bistro that really does have French people! Its a lovely choice for dinner.

[Suzanne F]

Jarnac, 328 West 12th Street at Greenwich Street (way west). the chef there was a teacher at the school I went to, so I have a very soft spot for Jarnac. But in any case, the food is excellent.

La Petite Auberge!!! Used to go frequently with my parents, but haven't been there in ages. Oh, the lobster Americaine! which one could get drunk on. The souffles. Again, makes me miss eating French food out.

[jgould]

for those keeping score, i'm down to the following: reviews are brutal, but honest

les halles - loud but real

la goulue - authentic as can be in nyc

l'absinthe - the real thing

le clown - l'absinthe without the e.side "tude"

quartorze bis - amazingly french without any french!!!

chez jacqueline - the bistro everyone would like 2 blocks away

un deux trois - i know, but a "la coupole" in nyc, try it before u knock it

that's it, revisited the original list at the top, & realize the faults of those now omitted. life is cruel, but selectivity rules!!!

raoul's - the owners have abdicated to new mexico, living on past rep

le pere pinand - the owners want to expand their horizons, no longer cool

le jardin bistro - not worth the trip, unless in the area

madison bistro - boring & worse, unfriendly, how do they pay the rent?

bateau ivre & montparnasse - non-french owners trying to capitalize

jubilee - 1st & 54th - will remain a neighborhood bistro

jubilee 51 - ??? maybe, but jury out

le bilboquet - too many euro-trash & want-2-be's, let'em have it

ferrier - ditto

orsay - for those who can't get into la goulue

jacque's bistro - revisit when they lower their prices for average food on 85th & 3rd

demarchelier - i was right, too many boors at the bar

la bonne soupe - if u like lunching with tourists & dining with the early bird specials

la petite auberge - should retire, & lower the lights before leaving

jarnac - why?????? english-owned > another french-themed copy

park bistro - why is this place empty vs les halles across the st - packed?? duh

so many to start with, so few to enjoy!

[SobaAddict70]

That's beyond brutal.

Is the purpose of this thread supposed to be a fair comparison of French bistro restaurants in New York, or a comparison of YOUR favorite New York French bistro restaurants?

I'm a bit confused here.

Does it really matter who owns the restaurant as long as the food is good and the service runs smoothly?

Peter Luger's is in Greenpoint/Williamsburg and Sriphaphai is in Jackson Heights, Queens. I live nowhere near those two locations, yet those two restaurants are, in my humble opinion, absolutely worth the journey for steak and Thai food respectively. Let's face it -- New York is full of wonderful restaurants which are worth travelling to, and to discount a restaurant that many people recommend just on the basis of its location...well, that's not really much of a rationale to begin with.

Soba

[Felonius]

la goulue - authentic as can be in nyc

le bilboquet - too many euro-trash & want-2-be's, let'em have it

orsay - for those who can't get into la goulue

Jgould, I must say I disagree somewhat with your thoughts on these UES bistros.

Yes, le Bilboquet is full of Europeans and want-to-be's, but so is La Goulue! I've dined at both of these places countless times, and about the only difference in the clientele is a 20-30 year age gap (and maybe a zero or two in the bank account, but at that level, what's the difference?).

No serious gastronome I know goes to La Goulue for the food. It's all about being seen there, showing off your new facelift, third wife who's 30 years younger, or your 15 carat yellow diamond ring from Graff. Yes it's a rather pretty dining room, but in that price range there are numerous restaurants that blow it away in terms of food. I go because I like the atmosphere at certain times, and enjoy the people watching (some of the most amusing in NYC), and that's it. I've never had a particularly good meal there in terms of food, and I'd say my average check for a course or two and a glass of wine is about $60. That's not far off from places like nearby Cafe Boulud, which offers some of the best French food in the USA.

While I haven't eaten at Orsay nearly as much as these other two, the food I've had there has been about as good as La Goulue but less expensive if I remember correctly.

And I do think that Le Jardin Bistro is worth a trip for those who are price conscious. There one can eat outside in a pleasant garden, dine on similar food to La Goulue, and walk out with a bill that's 50% less. In my mind, that's worth the trip when I've got the time.

[Felonius]

le pere pinand - the owners want to expand their horizons, no longer cool

I don't really understand this comparison either. "Cool" is cleary not a leading factor on your proposed list anyway. Places like La Goulue are only considered cool by women who still think George Hamilton is a hottie, and Cafe Un Deux Trois is probably cool if you just got off the bus at the Port Authority from Des Moines, but......

Haven't eaten at Le Pere Pinard in about six months, but upon my last visit had decent food at very reasonable prices. And yes, I though the vibe was kinda cool.

[jgould]

"all's fair in love & war", but i will try to clarify: clearly, should NOT have used the word "cool". it was meant as a "wink", but has been misunderstood, no use continuing to "beating a dead horse" - i get the point.

la pere pinard only exists because of its location. the food is mediocre to say the least. i don't know when u were there last, but the wine glasses are tiny, & very warm. the red wines are abnornally above "room" temp, ruining the taste. i admit "cool" is not very descriptive, but in this day & time, & to most, it does convey a certain "feeling" that good restaurants/bistros have, & bad ones don't. la pere is a good place to "feel" the lower e. side, but hardly qualifies as a destination or one to be included with bistros with good food, & good wine appreciation in terms of "how to serve". probably should visit before answering this critique.

re: cool > the owner(s) are more interested in expanding their mini empire than improving or maintaining the status quo - that's what i meant (without actually saying it). i prefer hands-on ownership in a quality restaurant. it is a personal preference, but one i have found provides a much better experience than those with absentee ownnership. obviously, there are exceptions to every rule.

i beg to differ re: la goulue, but i know it would be fruitless, either one gets la goulue or doesn't. the food is as good as most other places, the ambiance is excellent, at least the many times i have been. not an arguement, just simply how one perceives a restaurant vs. another. as to the george hamilton analogy, i guess its where u sit that determines perception...

un deux trois?? des moines?? bet 6:30 & 7:50, it is a definitely pre theatre crowd from all over. from 8-10, it is a restaurant with mostly natives, after 10, it has (generally) a fairly sophisticated clientele. would advise a revisit without preconceived perceptions. at some point, most natives were from someplace else. as to the food, quite frankly, i have enjoyed a number of dishes - from steak tartare - to - roast chicken, without being disappointed. it ain't jean george, but then again, how many are??? & they do serve, tom cat's baguette, how many others do??

le bilboquet: we must have been at different times. i have found la goulue to be the more democratic of the two. le bil has a younger crowd, & usually more obnoxious & loud, which generally dissuades me from going. if one likes the trust fund, do nothing, go-to-be-seen crowd; this is a good place to start. what else is there to like?

orsay: beautiful, but less expensive than la goulue?? i don't think so. was just there, & the prices are as high as la goulue, or any place!! maybe u receive a different menu

btw, none of the places originally mentioned are gastrocentric, but good, solid fun places to go, have a good meal in an enjoyable setting with good ambiance. cafe boulud may be on the cusp, but a touch above; therefore, was NOT included. the list was about places one could eat EVERY nite, among other criteria.

le jardin bistro: may be good, but travelling down to cleveland place, just to save $'s, i don't think so. if in the area, balthazar a much better choice, which wasn't on the list because it is just too crowded, & therefore very difficult to just walk-in like many of the others.

sorry soba, did not mean to purposely be confusing, & it SHOULD be a comparison of nyc french restaurants/bistros mixed in with a little controversy. let's stir it up, just a little, s'il vous plait. we should not take ourselves too seriously

as alluded to above, it seems to definitely make a difference as to who owns a restaurant, & more importantly, if THAT person is there & exercises hands-on management. but, u say: "what about jean georges or daniel, etc..." i answer 2 ways: 1) le bernandin, 2) revisit the list - most of these are less ambitious than the "haute cuisine" places i think u are referring to(?)

don't understand your last point, but suffice it to say, if i lived where u do, i would certainly have visited, at the very least, the 2 bistros ACROSS THE STREET - le bateau ivre & montparnasse. travelling to a destination place is fine, but with, as u say, so many wonderful places within walking distance, why not take the time to sample those??

hopefully this post clarifies some of the points raised here.

Edited February 19, 2004 by jgould (log)

[SobaAddict70]

I thought I was perfectly clear.

But since you're confused, let me attempt to elucidate:

1. I like French bistros but I'm not a fan of the cuisine such that I would be a regular at any French bistro. If Montparnasse were Jewel Bako, I might be inclined to go there more often.

2. I prefer downtown locations.

3. That said, there are many restaurants in New York that are worth travelling to regardless of their locale, even places across the street. To discount Le Jardin Bistro, as you gave in your example above, simply because of its location...well, that's not really much of a rationale, is it?

I hope this was helpful.

Soba

[SobaAddict70]

as alluded to above, it seems to definitely make a difference as to who owns a restaurant, & more importantly, if THAT person is there & exercises hands-on management. but, u say: "what about jean georges or daniel, etc..." i answer 2 ways: 1) le bernandin, 2) revisit the list - most of these are less ambitious than the "haute cuisine" places i think u are referring to(?)

Well:

1. I've never been to Le Bernardin, so perhaps an explanation should be forthcoming.

2. Mmmm, I'm not sure GT and Home Restaurant qualify as temples of "haute cuisine" in the same way that ADNY and Per Se do.

3. I believe I said

Does it really matter who owns the restaurant as long as the food is good and the service runs smoothly?

You discount Jarnac as not even worth going to because it is "english-owned" and "another french-themed copy". Gee, Le Cirque 2000 is owned by an Italian family. Must not be worth going to, cuz those Italians don't know a thing about haute cuisine....right?

Soba

[slkinsey]

Admin: Thread retitled so people who might like to participate can tell what's being discussed in here.

[dr_memory]

One note in re the often-complained-about noise level at Les Halles: their downtown (John St.) location, while still certainly a busy place, was entirely tolerable noise-wise the one time I ate there. My companions, both of whom were regular patrons of the uptown Les Halles, remarked that it was <i>much</i> more civilized than the other location.

Making a reservation there after 7:30pm, at which point most of the Wall Street types have swum back home, probably helps a lot.

[jgould]

I thought I was perfectly clear.

But since you're confused, let me attempt to elucidate:

1. I like French bistros but I'm not a fan of the cuisine such that I would be a regular at any French bistro. If Montparnasse were Jewel Bako, I might be inclined to go there more often.

2. I prefer downtown locations.

3. That said, there are many restaurants in New York that are worth travelling to regardless of their locale, even places across the street. To discount Le Jardin Bistro, as you gave in your example above, simply because of its location...well, that's not really much of a rationale, is it?

I hope this was helpful.

Soba

i'm not the 1 confused, just mystifyed!

u're not a fan of french bistros, so why do u even comment, where is the level of expertise to judge???????

that's a pretty closed world if downtown is your only frame of reference.

that said!!!!!!!! its obvious u don't read vevy closely, le jardin bistro is not discounted, .....

no, this was not helpful at all to the topic at hand. i don't mean to be overly harsh, but why did u comment????????