Roasting Turkey

[fifi]

For a juicy, flavourful turkey I recommend chicken thighs instead.

I'm with you on this one.

[Jinmyo]

For a juicy, flavourful turkey I recommend chicken thighs instead.

Crazy Canadians!!!!

One word: Brining

One word:

Pointless.

[col klink]

Smoking is not a bad idea.

I'm sorry Jinny that you've only had poor turkey in the past.

[Jinmyo]

Smoking is not a bad idea.

I'm sorry Jinny that you've only had poor turkey in the past.

Mon colonel, I would of course be willing to try anything you brine and smoke. Even turkey.

me/holds up Zippo lighter kept especially for this

"Klink! Klink! Klink!"

[col klink]

Your wish is my command.

[mixmaster b]

Here's a turkey technique: My Grandmother used to make my Grandfather pull all the tendons out of the turkey legs with a pair of channel locks. Has anyone ever tried this? I do it when I have a monstrously large turkey--I don't notice a tendon problem on smaller birds. It allows you to carve the leg into nice, neat slices.

For a juicy, flavourful turkey I recommend chicken thighs instead.

Crazy Canadians!!!!

One word: Brining

One word:

Pointless.

This surprises me! I have had very good results from brining--I really notice a big difference. Meat is jucier, and the brining seems to build a few minutes of leeway into the cooking time. (ei, if you roast it for a few minutes too long, the meat is still okay.)

I don't bother with turning the bird over. Every time I have tried that it just shreds the skin on the breast.

This year I am trying two.  One with the above method stuffed with oyster stuffing and one fried (stuffing tbd).

You are not planning to deep fry a stuffed bird, are you? I think that would be a very bad idea. The oil needs to circulate in the cavity to cook the bird. Has anyone done this? Did you read the safety thread? I'd hate to hear about exploding turkeys later!!!

That being said, deep frying does produce a very juicy turkey. Juicier than any roasted bird I've had.

[fifi]

me/holds up Zippo lighter kept especially for this

"Klink! Klink! Klink!"

I never thought of that. (I have a Zippo, somewhere.)

Actually, I have done brined and smoked turkey several times. It isn't too bad... since it tastes a lot like HAM!

[col klink]

Actually, I have done brined and smoked turkey several times. It isn't too bad... since it tastes a lot like HAM!

Sounds like you add too much sugar. I've pretty much stopped adding sugar to my turkey brines because of that. As a matter of fact, I really only add sugar to my pork brines.

[fifi]

No, I don't add sugar. It is still closer to ham than turkey.

That is a GOOD thing! (I hate turkey.)

[tejon]

I have had very good results from brining--I really notice a big difference. Meat is jucier, and the brining seems to build a few minutes of leeway into the cooking time. (ei, if you roast it for a few minutes too long, the meat is still okay.)

That has been my experience as well. Brining really improves moistness and helps protect the breast from overcooking. Just make sure the turkey you buy hasn't already been brined - Butterno sense in brining twice!

I don't cook the stuffing in the turkey, but in a casserole along side. This year I'm going to cook the stuffing in my crock pot, which should keep it moist and save room in the oven. I also tend to make a strong turkey stock ahead of time, then make the gravy from that so there is less last minute fussing on T-day.

[col klink]

No, I don't add sugar. It is still closer to ham than turkey.

That is a GOOD thing! (I hate turkey.)

A brined and smoked turkey is just about the best way to prepare a turkey. The thing is, it should taste like a turkey. Have you read my course on smoking a bird? It should in no way taste like ham. It should be succulent with a plump texture and taste more like turkey than turkey. Somehow the smoking makes the turkey flavors come out even stronger. I've done side by side comparisons with roasted, fried and smoked turkeys and the smoked turkey wins (I throw big Thanksgiving parties). I haven't tried a good implementation of a Thompson turkey (or any for that matter) but I'm willing to bet that a smoked bird tastes better and is a helluvalot easier to do.

Fifi, it sounds like you have the same problem as Jin. Do you like chicken? I understand not liking lots of foods for either textural reasons (raw fish), for taste (green olives, anchovies, natto), for religious or other beliefs (pork, cow, shellfish), but I have a hard time beliving that someone who can eat poultry, specifically turkey, not like a properly smoked and prepared turkey. It's absolutely divine.

I grew up with horrible turkeys at Thanksgiving and Christmas so I know how bad a turkey can be, but I've yet to find anyone who says that they don't like my smoked turkeys or smoked turkey in general (let alone thinking they taste like ham).

[marie-louise]

Jinmyo, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person who doesn't like brined turkey. I've tried it a few times, with a few different recipes, including Alice Water's, one w/ apple cider, and one w/ spices. Last T-day we even went so far as to cook two half breasts side by side: one brined, one not. Same time, same temp, same bird-just had the butcher saw the sucker in half. We both HATED the brined bird-ended up throwing it out. Yes, it's juicy, but I'm sorry, I think it tastes like a bad turkey roll-salty and processed. It no longer has the texture of meat.

I, too, like to BBQ my turkey. I have the butcher butterfly it (what's that word you guys love-spatchcock?), rub it w/ limes and dry oregano, and cook it on indirect heat on a Weber.

[Jinmyo]

I have a hard time beliving that someone who can eat poultry, specifically turkey, not like a properly smoked and prepared turkey. It's absolutely divine.

I grew up with horrible turkeys at Thanksgiving and Christmas so I know how bad a turkey can be, but I've yet to find anyone who says that they don't like my smoked turkeys or smoked turkey in general (let alone thinking they taste like ham).

I've had smoked turkey from artisinal butcher shops.

Horrid.

But if you say so, I will believe that edibility is conceivable.

[SethG]

I'd be remiss if I didn't point you to another way to roast a turkey.

[FoodMan]

Jinmyo, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person who doesn't like brined turkey. I've tried it a few times, with a few different recipes, including Alice Water's, one w/ apple cider, and one w/ spices. Last T-day we even went so far as to cook two half breasts side by side: one brined, one not. Same time, same temp, same bird-just had the butcher saw the sucker in half. We both HATED the brined bird-ended up throwing it out. Yes, it's juicy, but I'm sorry, I think it tastes like a bad turkey roll-salty and processed. It no longer has the texture of meat.

I, too, like to BBQ my turkey. I have the butcher butterfly it (what's that word you guys love-spatchcock?), rub it w/ limes and dry oregano, and cook it on indirect heat on a Weber.

Sounds maybe like you brined it for too long. You might have eaten corned turkey. A properly brined one should not taste like that.

Elie

[jhlurie]

We grilled ours on the Weber during Thanksgiving ast year and it was AMAZING. I dont think we did much to it other than shove some bacon under the skin and baste it in a little liquid.

Beer can in the nether regions, dude. Doesn't that go along with doing the bird on the grill?

Okay, bacon also never hurts ANYTHING.

[marie-louise]

Sounds maybe like you brined it for too long. You might have eaten corned turkey. A properly brined one should not taste like that.

I don't think so, I've been careful to follow times and amounts. I've rinsed carefully, and let it dry overnight per Cook's Illustrated. I just really don't like what brining does to the texture. It changes it. But then I absolutely despise deli turkey. If it's not sliced off a turkey carcass, I can't eat it. I know that 99% of people who have tried brining a turkey think it is an improvement; I've only met a few people who agree with me about the processed turkey texture. Fortunately, one of them is my husband, and another is the guy who's house we're going to for dinner this Thanksgiving.

I do think that salting the day before (Zuni's and Chez Panisse's Cafe Cookbooks both give instructions for doing this for chickens) with a few herbs under the skin makes a difference. I always do this with my roast chickens, and have settled on this method for my turkeys as well.

Edited November 14, 2003 by marie-louise (log)

[foodie52]

I've been cooking Thanksgiving dinner for over 25 years and change my turkey methods regularly.

One idea: make a compound butter, using unsalted butter and lots of fresh herbs and push it under the skin all over the turkey. Pop the turkey in a paper grocery bag, then into the roasting pan. Roast the recommended time, but ripping open the bag 45 minutes before removing from the oven so that the skin can brown.

Another idea ( and this is NOT as hard as it looks!) Julia takes out the breast bones, being careful not to tear the skin, then slices the breast meat and layers it with cold stuffing and sews it all back up. The upside is that it is pretty easy and impresses the hell out of your guests when it comes time to serve. The down side is that you can't do the stuffing and sewing until you are ready to put the bird in the oven. Cuts down on roasting time too, because there are fewer bones. I've done this a number of years.

As for turning a 22 lb bird half way through the cooking time....forget about it! Makes a giant mess...

I cook my stuffing in a hollowed out pie pumpkin, then slice and serve.

[fifi]

Fifi, it sounds like you have the same problem as Jin. Do you like chicken? I understand not liking lots of foods for either textural reasons (raw fish),  for taste (green olives, anchovies, natto), for religious or other beliefs (pork, cow, shellfish), but I have a hard time beliving that someone who can eat poultry, specifically turkey, not like a properly smoked and prepared turkey. It's absolutely divine.

I love chicken, and most other birds... except maybe the fiddly little ones (not because of flavor but because of fiddliness). I have brined and smoked many a turkey and everyone raves over it. I sit there and go... "Yeah, whatever. It's still a friggin' turkey." Well, ok, maybe it doesn't really taste like ham. And it is better than roasted. Fried is still the best way to get me to eat turkey. In retrospect, by comparing my mother's roasted turkey to descriptions and pictures seen here and other places, she roasted a really mean turkey. So, overexposure to bad turkey isn't it.

I guess I am just mad at turkey. I have tried elaborate brines, exotic treatments, elaborate turnings and techniques. I can get a juicy breast and done thighs. The flavors just don't seem to permeate turkey meat like they do chicken. It is like the thing is turning up it's pope's nose at me saying "Do what you will. I am turkey. I cannot be vanquished." So... I fry their butts.

Edited November 15, 2003 by fifi (log)

[Jonathan Day]

Chef Fowke's wonderful trussing method works brilliantly for chickens -- I don't see why it shouldn't also work for turkeys. In addition to exposing more of the skin surface, it seems to balance the cooking time so that the breast is still tender at the point the legs are cooked.

And the bird should be cooked unstuffed, or with just a quartered lemon inside it. If you roast it to the point that the stuffing is cooked, the bird itself almost always gets overdone. Or you end up doing as a short-sighted friend of ours once did: including the dishcloth in the stuffing.

[tommy]

i think some people's dislike of turkey is formed when they're 7 years old, even though it's clearly much better now.

[Stone]

I have a question for the cheesecloth people out there. I started a thread here to ask whether basting does anything. The general, although in now way complete response was "no." Now I'm setting my sights on the cheesecloth wrapped around a turkey breast on the theory (I suppose) that keeping the skin moist will keep the flesh underneath moist.

The few times I've seen a bird cooked with cheesecloth, there was still a good amount of juice/oil on the bottom of the roasting pan. Isn't the loss of that juice what causes the dryness in the breast? Won't any cooking method that releases moisture from the bird contribute towards a dry breast? Seems to me that even cooking the bird upside down and, therefore, soaking the breast in juice oil, ain't gonna do much to get the juice/oil back up into the breast meat.

Aren't the only options 1) find a cooked method that releases smaller amounts of moisture from the bird; or 2) increasing the moisture content of the breast prior to cooking (most likely by brining, koshering, or perhaps breeding)?

Edited November 16, 2003 by Stone (log)

[Katherine]

I have a question for the cheesecloth people out there.  I started a thread here to ask whether basting does anything.  The general, although in now way complete response was "no."  Now I'm setting my sights on the cheesecloth wrapped around a turkey breast on the theory (I suppose) that keeping the skin moist will keep the flesh underneath moist.

The few times I've seen a bird cooked with cheesecloth, there was still a good amount of juice/oil on the bottom of the roasting pan.  Isn't the loss of that juice what causes the dryness in the breast?  Won't any cooking method that releases moisture from the bird contribute towards a dry breast?  Seems to me that even cooking the bird upside down and, therefore, soaking the breast in juice oil, ain't gonna do much to get the juice/oil back up into the breast meat.

Aren't the only options 1) find a cooked method that releases smaller amounts of moisture from the bird; or 2) increasing the moisture content of the breast prior to cooking (most likely by brining, koshering, or perhaps breeding)?

The reason turkey breast meat is dry is because it is always overcooked by the time the rest of the bird is done.

It's not traditional, but I find the best turkey breast in the world (and I never liked turkey breast meat before, as it was always too dry no matter how it was cooked) is deboned, and poached in turkey stock until the interior reaches 160ºF, as measured using a probe attached to a temperature readout. I cook the carcass section from the breast meat in my existing turkey stock, and keep the whole batch in the freezer for the next time around.

So that is another option, unless you consider it to fall under option 1.

You could present an oven-roasted turkey, then bring out a platter of sliced breast meat prepared in this fashion. Use the dried-out breast meat for soup or other leftovers, no one will eat it after they taste the good stuff.

Actually, as long as your crowd is like most people nowadays (who exclusively eat white meat), you could purchase a small turkey only for skin and dark meat eaters in the group, and purchase extra white meat to cook using this method, so it would probably work out better overall.

[tommy]

Aren't the only options 1) find a cooked method that releases smaller amounts of moisture from the bird; or 2) increasing the moisture content of the breast prior to cooking (most likely by brining, koshering, or perhaps breeding)?

number 2 is a given, no? although in re-reading a bit, i think i see that you know that, given the context of the post. thought so.

i just saw Michael Chiarello on the picture box. he suggested the same thing that Alton Brown did, re the pan: low sides, so the heat doesn't whip up and around and hit the breast.

[fifi]

Someone needs to revisit Chef Fowke's trussing method here with pictures. I haven't tried it yet but it looks like a brilliant technique. (Even if it does look like a baby. )

Where is that thread, anyway? Will someone with better searching talents please provide a link?