Roasting Turkey

[kiliki]

Cucina-you may be interested in this article from today's NY Times:

Easiest turkey

[johnjohn]

Does anyone cut a turkey into parts and cook the parts individually? Seems like you could monitor the temps of the white and dark meat seperately and wouldn't have to worry about white and dark being done at the same time or dry meat. I've never done this, but I do it with chicken with great success. I don't care about presentation - I carve the turkey in the kitchen.

[eje]

Does anyone cut a turkey into parts and cook the parts individually?

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I believe this is one of the methods Julia Child advises in "The Way to Cook". I'm also thinking of trying it this year and would love to get some feedback. I've butchered my share of fowl in the past, so that part doesn't bother me.

-Erik

[CtznCane]

The one thing I haven't seen here so far is Deep Frying which we've done the past 3 years and has come out well... spectacularly.

I've got to say the way Jason and Rachel have done it made my mouth water. Then again bacon, bacon, bacon, how can anything not be better with bacon?

When I have cooked a turkey in the oven, 2 things have worked. First (as suggested in food and wine about 1983 or so) was to first cook it realy high, 500 ish for about 30 minutes, then turn it down but still cook it quick and unstuffed. This worked magnificently. It kept the moisture in.

Alternatively, I've cooked it in cooking bags which also works well. While these two oven methods work well, the hands down winner in my family has been the deep fried. Even more so when rubged first with cajun spices and crumbled bay leave.

[zilla369]

At work, the boss decided to buy every employee a turkey for a Thanksgiving bonus.

He talked to the supplier privately about it, so, although I do the ordering at the restaurant, I wasn't involved in the details.

Friday morning the turkeys arrived. I wasn't expecting them, and they sure took up a LOT of room in the walk-in. I figure that boss wanted to be generous (he's a consistently generous type), so he asked the supplier to send the biggest turkeys available.

I know there are bigger turkeys out there, but I've never cooked a 22# "tom" turkey before. Surely there are special considerations particular to largish birds.

I'd like to brine, but then I'm worried that - since it's possibly not the tenderest of turkeys - it might not work as well as with more reasonable turkeys. Also, the turkey has been frozen. It's thawing out in the fridge, now.

I'm concerned about optimum oven temperature. I'd like some sense of how-many-hours if you suggest a temp or series of temps, but don't worry about being too specific - I have a thermometer. I'll know when it's done.

[budrichard]

1. If your turkey is frozen it is probably basted with a salt/soy solution. In that case I would not brine it.

2. The time will depend on if it is truly thawed and if stuffed. Cook until a meat thermometer registers about 175 to 180F in the leg joint. Let rest for 30 minutes and it will come to 185F. -Dick

[Foodie Craze]

Budrichard ..

Complete turkey prep instructions are in our Thanksgiving Guide, downloadable from the website ... (navigate to the "Freebies for Foodies") page on http://www.triviacraze.com.

Of the top of our head (and I guess pretty obvious stuff that most eG types already know, but I suppose there are a few first time turkey roasters out there)

You may want to avoid stuffing larger birds except perhaps loosely with aromatics & herbs, and if stuffed with dressing, stuff very loosely to allow heat to penetrate. That stuffing will aborb liquid.

Defrost thoroughly 2 days ahead in refrigerator. Don't trust the plastic popup thermometer if present -- discard it. They are notoriously inaccurate. Acquire a meat / poultry thermometer, in addition to an oven thermometer if you aren't sure of your oven temp.

Longer cooking time presents a challenge to keep breast meat from drying -- several methods of avoiding that -- rub with butter, basting. tent with tinfoil, etc. Check out our guide for more info.

Have a great Thanksgiving!

[zilla369]

Right, thanks for that. *cough*

Okay, let me be a little more specific. I know the basics - and there are tons of turkey threads on the various eG fora about cooking turkey. However, I couldn't find a lot of information about what to consider when roasting such a large specimen.

budrichard, thanks for that tip about frozen birds coming pre-basted. I checked the packaging (brilliant! ) and indeed it has been basted and/or injected. So brining may not be a good idea - which is fine, because of space considerations.

I understand that one of the challenges is to get the breast and legs done at relatively the same time without overcooking the breast or undercooking the legs. I read this this morning, wherein McGee advocates applying ice packs to the breast of the turkey while the rest comes up to room temp before cooking. I may try this.

I'm not planning on stuffing the bird (except with aromatic herbs and onions). Stuffing will be made separately.

I'm interested in a comparison of slow and low v. high temp roasting, as pertains to such a big bird.

[russ parsons]

when roasting a bird that big, the only change i make is to use a little slower oven ... that will allow the heat to penetrate more deeply before the surface gets too done. if you usually roast at 350, go to 325. the main challenge, of course, is getting the breast and the legs done at the same time (i think the correct temps are more like 165 in the thigh -- 185 is a cya invention of the usda).

[ludja]

when roasting a bird that big, the only change i make is to use a little slower oven ... that will allow the heat to penetrate more deeply before the surface gets too done. if you usually roast at 350, go to 325. the main challenge, of course, is getting the breast and the legs done at the same time (i think the correct temps are more like 165 in the thigh -- 185 is a cya invention of the usda).

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Thank you for the tip; I have a 19 1/2 pounder this year and will try this out.

[andiesenji]

I have cooked some super sized turkeys, up to 35+ pounds.

I start them on a rack, in a heavy covered roasting pan - a Magnalite - on top of the stove at a medium simmer for 3 1/2 hours, starting with one cup of broth. Once it heats up a lot more liquid will develop. This is essentially steaming the

then into the oven at 375 degrees, for 2 1/2 hours. 6 hours total.

A 28 - 30 pound turkey takes 5 hours.

This is without dressing (or stuffing)

The turkey will be well done and all the meat, including the breast meat will be juicy.

If you don't have a heavy covered roaster, you can use a lighter one, such as the classic blue enamel pans, with a "Flame-tamer" underneath.

Checking the temp, the thickest part of the thigh should be 110 to 120 degrees at the end of the stove-top part of the process.

Edited November 21, 2005 by andiesenji (log)

[russ parsons]

that's an interesting technique andiesenji, where did you come up with teh initial steaming idea?

[ianeccleston]

Cook's Illustrated has a technique: 425 degrees for the first hour, flip it, 325 therafter.

I'm still debating whether to stuff it or not, but it sounds like I'm better off not.

Ian

[fifi]

Now we are getting somewhere. I haven't done a big bird in a long time but I do remember my mother doing something like andie. She had one of those big blue enamel pans, with lid. I think she did the whole thing in the oven, though.

As I recall, the big bird I did was done on the smoker. I put it in a big foil pan and covered it with aluminum foil tightly sealed at the edges. The smoker was running at my typical 225 F at the grate. I don't recall the time as I went by internal temperature. I did take the foil off at probably about the same point that andie takes the lid off. I do recall that I was surprised at how good it was . . . for a turkey.

The lower temperature is also consistent with what I do with chicken. As the bird gets bigger, I drop the temperature. I use 325, 1/2 hour per pound for Coconut Glazed Chicken. I am usually doing an 8 pound monster if I can get it.

[jayhay]

then into the oven at 375 degrees, for 2 1/2 hours. 

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At this point is the lid still on?

[andiesenji]

then into the oven at 375 degrees, for 2 1/2 hours. 

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At this point is the lid still on?

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Sorry! Remove lid before it goes into the oven. Mea culpa!

[Toliver]

Are you set on roasting the turkey whole? Will there be a table or carving station presentation?

If not, I was thinking you could do something more along the lines of what slkinsey did in his Thanksgiving Diary.

Or at least using the cut-apart-and-roast-separately method to help achieve optimium roasting since the dark pieces and the white pieces seem to have different cooking times.

[andiesenji]

that's an interesting technique andiesenji, where did you come up with teh initial steaming idea?

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When I was a child, our cook did them this way. We had two big estate ranges, in addition to a huge wood/coal stove and still there was too much stuff for the ovens to hold all at once.

Often 50 to 70 people for holiday dinners. After 1947, when my grandma got an electric roaster, there was always one turkey started in the roaster and transferred to the oven for browning.

I have two of the 4269 Magnalite roasters - you see a lot of the smaller 4267 (18 inch) usually described as 'large' on ebay but not so many of the bigger one which is 22 1/2 inches long.

It can be used on top of the stove as well as in the oven and holds a huge amount of food.

for smaller turkeys, I can get two in side by side crossways.

[Berlinsbreads]

The final countdown has begun and because I have never roasted a turkey before(yet I have roasted & cooked almost everything else out there!), I am having advice thrown at me left & right as well as reading it myself in magazines & my variety of cookbooks.

I have this huge turkey (21 lbs) thawing in the fridge. Here is what I've been told...

~Roast it in a bag

~Roast in a covered roaster

~Roast it upside down first & then flip

~Roast at high temp to begin then turn oven down

~Roast at low temp for a long time whilst basting

~lay a piece of cheese cloth soaked in butter on the breast during the beginning

~stuff butter under the skin

The only thing I am sure of is that I won't be stuffing it----one of my guests is very allergic to onions (ACKK!) and I can't have the onion laden stuffing in the bird.

Soooo, what I'm getting at here is, what to do?? My natural inclination is to roast the bird at low temp in my roasting pan on a rack and baste it frequently. Didn't people do that for years & years? Do all the little tricks of flipping the bird, etc, really make that much difference?

[Basilgirl]

My natural inclination is to roast the bird at low temp in my roasting pan on a rack and baste it frequently. Didn't people do that for years & years? Do all the little tricks of flipping the bird, etc, really make that much difference?

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I say stick with your natural inclination. I rub butter on it, S&P, tie the legs (or not), stick the wings underneath, 325 degrees. Done. I can't imagine trying to flip over a hot 21-pounder...

[SuzySushi]

Just treat it like a big chicken and you'll be fine!

(Resist the temptation to turn a bird that big unless you're really muscular!)

[MarketStEl]

The biggest bird I've ever cooked was about 21 lbs, and I've found that the breast-side-down method produces good results.

But I wanted to ask about that high-heat-to-start, then low-and-slow method. Alton Brown touted this on an episode of "Good Eats" that was recently repeated in time for Turkey Day.

His instructions were 500F for 30 minutes, then down to 350 for the remainder, tent the breast with foil, don't flip the bird, and skip the stuffing.

My problem: I love stuffing, and I love the flavor it gets when it absorbs juices from the bird. I understand that current fashion is to leave the bird unstuffed, as the stuffing may not reach a high enough temperature inside the bird, but what do I do to get that flavor then? Add pan juices to the mix and bake it while the bird sits? Something else?

And is it possible to cook a bird by the high-then-low method with stuffing inside?

Edited November 22, 2005 by MarketStEl (log)

[ianeccleston]

My problem:  I love stuffing, and I love the flavor it gets when it absorbs juices from the bird.  I understand that current fashion is to leave the bird unstuffed, as the stuffing may not reach a high enough temperature inside the bird, but what do I do to get that flavor then?  Add pan juices to the mix and bake it while the bird sits?  Something else?

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If you want to get a nice poultry flavor, you might add a bit of brown chicken stock to the dressing as it bakes, that might do the trick. I'm making chicken stock tonight for that same purpose.

BTW, I've heard that stuffing the bird also makes it more likely that the white and dark meat cook unevenly - which is why I'm doing it out of the bird, as dressing, this year.

Cheers,

Ian

[piperdown]

For Canadian Thanksgiving I did Alton's High then low and it Pretty well. I too love the taste stuffing gets from the bird, so I did exactly what ianeccleston suggested, and adding stock to the stuffing. I had made a turkey stock from the giblets and with chicken stock added, and then just added some of that to the stuffing before putting it in the oven. It tasted great.

For American Thanksgiving, we have a lot more people coming, so we're cooking a bigger bird. For the 13 lb'er I brined for 6 hours and air-dried overnight. Does anyone know how long a 20 lb bird should be brined for?

Edited November 22, 2005 by piperdown (log)

[handmc]

Piperdown that is on nice looking bird.