Roasting Turkey

[waves2ya]

Hope that helps. I hope you try this turkey...

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You are an angel.

Nothing else necessa as the family has to contribute something - little will they know the potential feast they walk into!

Even more fiendishly, I am either roti-ing or kettle grilling this bird (14p); so I will need every blessing the culinary kings have to offer. I am ready to roast something in an offer to chef seraphs above; oh yeah, did a tandori chick weekend past testing temps, no hitches - that will have to do!

Btw, searched high and low for the accompanying stuffing - scores of recipes - your suggestions by far the best...

Thank you.

[Aileen]

I brine, but never for very long. Usually two hours with a 14 pound turkey (and a standard, not-too-salty brine). I've never found it too salty, lacking "turkey flavor", or had trouble with the drippings being too salty. I also never baste, I find that rubbing with butter before roasting gives enough flavor and the skin gets nice and crisp (I LOVE crispy skin!). I do the same start-with-breast-down method that howard88 mentioned. The skin on the back and legs gets crispy, too, with this method (must use a rack, of course, to keep the bird out of the drippings).

[tanabutler]

Btw, searched high and low for the accompanying stuffing - scores of recipes - your suggestions by far the best...

Thank you.

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I actually don't use that recipe but make one up on my own, with shiitakes and pine nuts and rosemary and stuff.

Although Dan Barber's recipe for mushroom-hazelnut stuffing sounds fabulous:

scroll down. (Technically, it's "dressing," since he doesn't put it in the bird.)

One other word about the turkey recipe. I make soup with the carcass. I use no celery, and I use no rice, but I throw in oranges (whole), more shiitakes, and some of the dressing with pine nuts, etc. It is the best turkey soup in the world, and my husband's favorite thing I make all year, I think. (The trick with the oranges is to let them cook, and then juice them at the end. The oils from the rind infuse the soup with incredible flavor. It is thus very important to use organic oranges.)

[waves2ya]

Another q...

Have researched the forum to no avail (!) on a guide for "cooking sherry"; now - most seem to say (iNet) cook w/ what you'd drink, and most cook with white wine. And then, that cooking sherry is colored and salted yet cream sherry can be overwhelming. Is the sherry dry or sweet? Can vermouth be used...? Have you a brand you go with...?

Thank you, again.

~waves

[Toliver]

Is the sherry dry or sweet?  Can vermouth be used...?  Have you a brand you go with...?

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I use pale dry sherry in my cooking, not the sweet. Sorry I can't recall the brand at the moment but it's not anything high-end. I use it in everything from chinese dishes to sautéed mushrooms.

As for vermouth, I don't use it in my cooking or my martinis (I like them really, really dry).

[tanabutler]

Another q...

Have researched the forum to no avail (!) on a guide for "cooking sherry"; now - most seem to say (iNet) cook w/ what you'd drink, and most cook with white wine.  And then, that cooking sherry is colored and salted yet cream sherry can be overwhelming.  Is the sherry dry or sweet?  Can vermouth be used...?  Have you a brand you go with...?

Thank you, again.

~waves

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I use Amontillado for its nutty taste--not cooking sherry! Do not use vermouth or cream sherry: you want dry.

Trader Joe's has decent Amontillado, and you can pick up a bottle of Hartley & Gibson for about $8, I bet.

[lovebenton0]

Melissa is on to something with the bacon, and I take it one step further by using a cheesecloth soaked in Olive Oil for part of the process.

That link has a brief description and a link to the book (The Cotton Country Collection-Everybody should have one copy) that the recipe is pulled from. The bird turns out great every time and the skin is beyond description. Try it this way once and you will never go back.

And my mother once told me that if you will just take the attitude that "a turkey is just a real big chicken" they suddenly become much less daunting. While I have famously ignored alot of her advice (to predictable results, according to her ), I trust her absolutely in matters relating to food, and you can too. That woman knows all about rattling pots and pans to fine result.

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OK, Brooks, you sucked me in again. Instead of my usual herb butter under the breast skin, rub all over with with rosemary/pignoli oil and deep baste with syringe baster (which makes an excellent big bird every time) I'm set on trying your recommendation this year. It sounds too good -- and hey I'm up for something new. Seriously, I just ordered the book. But when it came up for delivery estimate it will be arriving oh so conveniently after Thanksgiving . So I have a legitimate question: If I'm roasting a 14 to 15 lb bird do you know time and temp for that, following your other instructions?

Thanks, if you can reply to this.

[waves2ya]

If you can follow a recipe, I've made Roast Turkey with Herb Rub and Shiitake Gravy for ten years now....

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So - thank you, again, TB for recette; roti'd (!; outdoors; lump coal 2 1/2hrs) 14pd Eberly turkey; no brine. Coupled with above guidance, stuffing from prior threads - meal was a resplendent success. Here was the feast for 12 (3 small kids)...

Raw Veggies, dip; shrimp & cocktail sauce; Champagne

Fois gras; Sauternes

Squash Soup w/ dollop of creme fraiche

Turkey; Beaujolais Nouveau 2004

Stuffing (matched gravy)

Haricot verte

Brussel sprouts in a cream, bacon, cheese sauce

Sweet Potato (corn flakes on top)

Cranberry

Sour Cream Apple Pie

Pumpkin Pie

Grand Marnier Chocolate Mousse

Think that was it; looking forward to the leftovers as the chef never really eats...

;-)

Opps - forgot Spice Nuts! Also wonderful...

Edited November 26, 2004 by waves2ya (log)

[tanabutler]

I am so glad if you liked it, and if you like the spiced nuts, too. Yay.

[waves2ya]

I am so glad if you liked it, and if you like the spiced nuts, too. Yay.

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Tana - got a recette for that turkey soup you chatted about...? Don't see any veggies in there... Got lots of gravy left...

Really owe ya now; maybe our family choc truffles recipe...

[Megaroo]

My no fail recipe is a mixture of a Martha Stewart's turkey recipe and some FoodTV tips. I roast the turkey with Martha's recipe, but roast it breast side down for most of the time in the oven. Also, soaked cheesecloth and LOTS of basting. Also try having a thermometer in the turkey - best $39.99 I've ever spent...

[tanabutler]

I am so glad if you liked it, and if you like the spiced nuts, too. Yay.

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Tana - got a recette for that turkey soup you chatted about...? Don't see any veggies in there... Got lots of gravy left...

Really owe ya now; maybe our family choc truffles recipe...

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There's no recipe, just general guidelines. Throw the bird's carcass in a bit pot with enough water to cover it. Bring it to a boil and let it go at medium or so for an hour or so. Let cool, and remove the carcass. This is Bob's department: removing all the bones and icky bits, and tossing the meat back into the pot. He also skims all the fat off.

Into that stock, depending on the size of the bird and volume of liquid, I will add sliced carrots, more shiitakes, some of the shiitake gravy (because it's so damned good), even some of the stuffing.

I also throw in two-four fresh ORGANIC oranges, whole, and a little of the Amontillado sherry. Organic oranges because I don't want pesticide soup, you know? Thanks, Monsanto, I'll sit this one out.

I bring that up to a boil again, stirring occasionally, and then let it simmer and simmer until the house smells good. It's hard to describe when it's done: it just looks and tastes like soup. When it "gets there," I remove the oranges and juice them, and pour some (if not all) of the juice into the pot.

I'm trying to think if there is anything else, but I can't. I definitely omit rice and celery, which honestly give it a "school lunch" vibe. The carrots and mushrooms and oranges class it right up.

And of course, salt and ground pepper to taste.

Does that help?

[Khadija]

Canadian Thanksgiving is this weekend. I have managed to land myself with the job of cooking the turkey for my grad student Thanksgiving dinner. I am not a huge fan of turkey, for reasons many people around here will understand (it tends to be bland, dry, takes too much effort given the return). The last time I cooked a turkey was a couple of years ago, for another one of these student dinners. The aluminum roasting pan I bought from the grocery store broke under the weight of the turkey halfway through the cooking process -- it was a bit of a disaster.

However, since nobody is willing to imagine that there could be Thanksgiving without turkey, I need to figure out the best way to cook a turkey. I'm definitely going to brine, but beyond that I have no plans. I read somewhere that cutting up the bird before roasting produces better results (more even cooking), which makes sense. Has anyone tried this? Will my friends miss the ceremony of seeing the the whole, roasted bird. Should I try to season the bird with anything more exotic than salt, pepper, butter, and herbs? Should I add anything besides salt to the brine? I'm looking for lots and lots of feedback.

[Marlene]

A southern turkey

Scroll down a bit, but this is by far the best Turkey I've ever made. In fact I'll be making this again for Thanksgiving this weekend.

The recipe comes from the Cotton County Cookbook, but it's also detailed in this post as well

[Ktepi]

Last year I brined in cider (diluted about 1:1 with water and seasoned with sage) and was very happy with it -- my Thanksgiving stuffing has rabbit, sage, and apple in it, so I thought this brine would complement that, and the bird wound up with a faint cidery smell to the skin, which was noticeably more evenly-golden. I had been worried about the sugar content making the skin brown too quickly and burn, which is why I diluted the cider -- turned out fine.

The meat itself was indistinguishable from ordinary brined turkey -- but that's exactly what I was hoping for, rather than winding up with a Hefty bag of apple-flavored turkey leftovers.

I'll almost certainly do the same thing this year -- waiting to find out which heritage turkeys my butcher can set me up with and whether they'll be affordable.

[mizducky]

Re: disposable aluminum roasting pans--yeah, those things are always a disaster waiting to happen, just way too flimsy for the turkeys they're supposedly meant to contain. But a good-quality roasting pan can put a major dent in one's wallet (I'm assuming from your comment about "grad student dinner" that you're on a grad student's budget). There are, however, a few work-arounds I have found: 1) check your local second-hand shops and thrift stores for good-quality used roasting pans; 2) those old-school cheapo speckled enamel-ware roasters actually work pretty well, and can often be found at cheap prices at your local mega-box store; 3) if you do have to fall back on the disposable aluminum jobbies, buy two or three of 'em and use them nested together for greater strength; 4) also, putting a big cookie sheet under a disposable pan (nested or otherwise) will lend further structural integrity, especially when lifting the whole contraption into and out of the oven.

In any case, do make sure to use a rack even with the disposable pan--it allows air to circulate around the bird for better roasting, it gets the bird up and out of the drippings so it's not braising rather than roasting its backside, and it keeps the bird from getting vulcanized to the bottom of the roaster (which can really do in one of those flimsy disposable pans).

[UkFoodie]

Ive been seperating my turkey into two pieces for years.....

Prepare the turkey, to remove legs, cut through the skin and pull joint firmly away from body then cut through ball and socket joints. Cut away the 'oyster' on the back of the turkey so leg and thigh comes away cleanly.

With a thin, sharp knife, bone both legs and stuff with sausage meat. Wrap tightly in tin foil and chill to set the shape.

Prepare the crown, cut off wing tips and, for easier carving, take out the wishbone nd cut away back bone with poultry shears.

Season well, place in a roasting tin. Place the quartered onions in the breast cavity and cover loosely with butter paper or foil.

Cook the turkey,

Put the crown for 1-1½ hours at 180C/350F until juices run clear

Put the foil-wrapped legs in a roasting pan and cook at 180C/350F/Gas4 for 45 minutes. Remove from oven untill you rest the crown. Reduce temperature to 160C/320F and remove foil and cook for a further 30 minutes, straining off any juices for the gravy.

This method makes carving a breeze and ensures that the light and dark meat gets cooked pto perfection.

[Toliver]

Here are three pages of Turkey-related eGullet discussions...some with alternatives to the standard roasting:

Turkey Talk

And didn't slkinsey do a spatchcocked turkey once? Or cook it in pieces due to the different cooking times depending on whether it was white meat or dark? I can't recall whether it was in his eGullet Thanksgiving blog or one of the aforementioned discussions...

[JSD]

I cooked a turkey last weekend, using Julia Child's recipe from the Way to Cook. Basically, you cook the turkey at 500 degrees F for half an hour, then put a bunch of cut up vegetable (I used carrots, celery and onions) and 2 cups of water in the bottom of the pan to keep the juices from burning, turn the oven down to 450 and cook for another 1 1/2 hours. The turkey was not huge by Thanksgiving standards, only 13 pounds, but it turned out beautifully, and was juicy.

I always use a rack.

Once I used Julia Child's recipe for cooking a chicken where you rotate it a quarter turn every 15 minutes or so. It was hard to do with a chicken, so I wouldn't try with a turkey, plus it was a nuisance. But the skin was nice all the way around. If that's your goal, then I recommend using a rotisserie on the barbeque. It's lots easier.

Using bacon on a turkey looked pretty good, too.

[M.X.Hassett]

Here are three pages of Turkey-related eGullet discussions...some with alternatives to the standard roasting:

Turkey Talk

And didn't slkinsey do a spatchcocked turkey once?  Or cook it in pieces due to the different cooking times depending on whether it was white meat or dark? I can't recall whether it was in his eGullet Thanksgiving blog or one of the aforementioned discussions...

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Here is the link to Sam's blog http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=55282 he cooks the w/d dark meat sepretlyy. There has been some discussion that this is the only way to do it, even the greats like Duccase and the Bristol in Paris cook the meat seperatly or they pull the bird when white meat is done and remove thighs and recook.

[Chris Amirault]

Click here for the Gourmet recipe that I've been using for years, involving a very simple red onion, bay, and orange stuffing that exists just to flavor the pan juices. Brine the bird 24+ hrs, btw.

[Sugarella]

Re: disposable aluminum roasting pans-- buy two or three of 'em and use them nested together for greater strength; also, putting a big cookie sheet under a disposable pan (nested or otherwise) will lend further structural integrity, especially when lifting the whole contraption into and out of the oven.

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OH YES! This works very well in a pinch, as does an 18" round cake pan.

Here's an easy turkey you won't get frustrated with; some roommates & I discovered this trick quite by accident years ago on account of we didn't know what we were doing. (Although I'm sure this is the way turkeys were originally done.) No brining, no basting, squirts juice after the bird comes to room temp & cooks both white & dark meat to perfection. Problem is, I've tried it with pre-frozen turkeys a few times since (usually at my own sad little Thanksgiving parties for one - sniff!) and it doesn't work nearly as well as using a fresh turkey. Freezing & thawing must inhibit the meat's ability to release & re-absorb it's own juices, or somesuch.

Anywho, wash the bird, put it in the pan, give it a rubdown with olive oil, rub kosher salt into the cavity & onto the body, and sprinkle at the very least all over with powdered sage. DON'T STUFF IT. (That comes later.) You can get very creative with the spices & all or maybe add some wine to the pan, but otherwise, you're done. But at least do salt & sage. (And wine. Lots. ) If you've got a roasting pan.....forget the lid. Stretch aluminum foil all around the pan & pinch the edges down to form a very tight seal. If you need to use 2 or 3 pieces strung together to cover it, make sure the seams are sealed as well, and cook it for 1/3 - 1/2 of its required cooking time this way. Make sure it's really tight & no steam can escape. Essentially, you'll be poaching the bird, rather than roasting it, for this first part.

After 1/3 - 1/2 cooking time has elapsed you need to remove the bird from the oven & stuff it. This is the only tricky part. You definitely need a cookie sheet under there if you're using the disposable aluminum pans, because you'll now notice your pan is FULL of water, and you didn't put it in there. Mmmmm.... yummy turkey water. See? All that turkey juice would've been absorbed by your stuffing and made the bird dry. But stuffing it 1/2 way through cooking doesn't matter because the meat's been poaching. You need to get some long tongs or 2 big wooden spoons to gently push the stuffing slowly into the cavity. The water is scalding hot so be careful and go slowly so it doesn't splash back up at you. This still takes me about 20 minutes or so, and I've done it many times, so count on it taking you 30. Once stuffed, return the (not-so-tight-fitting-this-time) foil to the pan & return the pan to the oven, & continue to cook until done. Not-so-tight-fitting because you now want to be roasting instead of poaching. Remember though, all that time spent stuffing and the bird cooled down, so add an additional 20-30 minutes to the cooking time, because the time spent heating back up after it goes back in doesn't really count. Then, about 1/2 hour before it should be done, remove the foil (all the turkey juice has been re-absorbed now) and increase the heat by 25 degrees and it'll be nice & golden brown.

There. Not nearly as gourmet as some other methods but you said you wanted easy. Press a fork down on the meat after it's all cooled and juice still squirts out. Like I said, this only works on fresh turkeys though. (Although frozen are still good, just not nearly as juicy.)

I also have killer stuffing, but it's much much much fussier. Let me know if you want it.

Edit: typos

Edited October 7, 2005 by Sugarella (log)

[JayBassin]

I read somewhere that cutting up the bird before roasting produces better results (more even cooking), which makes sense.  Has anyone tried this?  Will my friends miss the ceremony of seeing the the whole, roasted bird. 

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Jacques Pepin demonstrated a technique where he cut the entire back out of the turkey, leaving the breast (remove the wishbone prior to cooking for easier carving), wings (minus tips), and legs. He also detached the legs at the body, boned out the thighbone, and stuffed the cavity of the thigh. (Wrap the thighs with aluminium foil to keep everything together, removing the foil for the last 1/2 hour.) He used the back and wing tips for stock, made a stuffing (part of which went into the legs), and he sat the backless bird over a mound of stuffing. It cooks much faster because it's essentially spatchcocked. When serving, you can place the legs back in place, and the turkey doesn't look any different. It's easy to carve and much faster to cook, which means the breast doesn't dry out before the boneless thighs are done.

[dockhl]

After 1/3 - 1/2 cooking time has elapsed you need to remove the bird from the oven & stuff it. This is the only tricky part. You definitely need a cookie sheet under there if you're using the disposable aluminum pans, because you'll now notice your pan is FULL of water, and you didn't put it in there. Mmmmm.... yummy turkey water. See? All that turkey juice would've been absorbed by your stuffing and made the bird dry. But stuffing it 1/2 way through cooking doesn't matter because the meat's been poaching. You need to get some long tongs or 2 big wooden spoons to gently push the stuffing slowly into the cavity. The water is scalding hot so be careful and go slowly so it doesn't splash back up at you. This still takes me about 20 minutes or so, and I've done it many times, so count on it taking you 30. Once stuffed, return the (not-so-tight-fitting-this-time) foil to the pan & return the pan to the oven, & continue to cook until done.

Wait wait wait..........you put it back in the oven with the turkey water still in it?? Cooks down? Completely, or enuf for gravy?

I also have killer stuffing, but it's much much much fussier. Let me know if you want it. 

Yes please 

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[Sugarella]

Wait wait wait..........you put it back in the oven with the turkey water still in it?? Cooks down? Completely, or enuf for gravy?

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Well, "enuf for gravy" is all relative, isn't it!? I say you can never have too much gravy. But it does leave enough liquid at the end, same as roasting a turkey the regular way, to make some. I make some components of my stuffing (see below) the day before, and make extra stock for gravy at the same time.

And yes, you put it back in there as is. The stuffing gets completely soaked when you stuff the bird but there's still tons of turkey water left, so this must end up being re-absorbed by the bird, because where else would it go? Can't all evaporate. The stuffing wouldn't be able to absorb any more liquid, being that it got soaked. The bird does absorb any excess liquid right out of the stuffing too, so it's not like it's soggy or anything when the cooking's done. Hope that makes sense.

I also have killer stuffing, but it's much much much fussier. Let me know if you want it. 

Yes please 

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Ok, but I warned you, it's fussy. I've never written it down before and it always varies slightly but here goes.... as you can tell I don't experiment too much with the spices on this one.....

The day before I make several components for the stuffing plus the gravy stock..... you have to pre-order from the butcher the extra lb. or so of assorted turkey necks or wings, gizzards, hearts, kidneys, plus you'll need an extra lb. of turkey livers. (or chicken livers will actually do.) Even grocery stores cut up some of their birds for Thanksgiving so just ask them ahead of time to save you all the extra bits. The livers are for the pate for the stuffing, the gizzards, hearts and kidneys go in the stuffing, and all the extras like wings or necks are used to make the stock. Stock is for cooking the rice for the stuffing and for making extra gravy.

You'll need:

1 lb. turkey necks, wings, gizzards, kidneys, hearts. (The last 3 are chopped and put in the stuffing.... I like about 1/2 of that part to be kidneys.)

1 lb. turkey or chicken livers

2 cups rice

1 large loaf sourdough bread

2 lbs. assorted mushrooms. A combination of oyster, portobello & reconstituted dried shittake mushrooms are nice, but plain white ones or creminis are good too. Chop in largish chunks.

1 medium vidalia onion or several large shallots, finely chopped

garlic, as much as you can stand, finely chopped. )

6 outside celery stalks, finely chopped, preferably including as many celery leaves as you can get.

1 small bunch parsley + 2 stalks (?) rosemary, needles removed from stems, finely chopped.

pinch celery powder, several pinches ground sage.

salt, pepper, butter, olive oil, sesame oil, oyster sauce, good quality soy sauce (please don't use chinese soy - ick! Cheap Japanese Kikkoman is fine)

1 bottle of red or white wine (both work well) ....some for the stuffing, some for gravy, some for roasting the turkey in the thread above.)

Stuffing components: stock, rice, croutons, pate, sauteed mushrooms, sauteed meats, sauteed veggies & herbs.

Stock: Roast extra turkey bits like wings etc. with onions, carrots, whatever you'd normally do until just cooked, then turn them into a saucepan with water and cook into a stock with salt, pepper, etc. Just a regular stock. Strain & reserve stock broth, discard cooked components.

Rice: Cook 2 cups Jasmine rice (grains stay individual in the final stuffing) or a mixture of jasmine and long grain, or whatever you like, with some of the above stock + 2 or 3 Tbsp. butter, 3 or 4 Tbsp. oyster sauce, 1 Tbsp. good quality soy sauce, and 1 Tsp. sesame oil. Set aside.

Croutons, pate, sauteed mushrooms, & sauteed meats can all be done in the same skillet and can be done the day before if you want..... the sauteed veggies & herbs should be done in a very large saucepan so you can just mix everything else into it when you're done.

Croutons: Cut fresh sourdough bread into bite-sized cubes (to get about 8 - 10 cups) and sautee in a saucepan with butter, olive oil, salt, minced garlic, fresh parsley, etc. until just browned. Turn onto a cookie sheet and set in a 300 degree oven for about an hour until completely dried out into croutons.

Pate: Sautee the lb. of turkey or chicken livers in a little olive oil with some salt, and about 1 Tbsp. soy sauce until just browned, then add 1 full cup of wine (use whatever you'll be using for the bird, and gravy if you put wine in yours) reduce heat to very low, cover & simmer for about 5 minutes. Set aside and let cool, then puree the entire mixture, including any liquid, and set this aside. It's just a very basic pate but it goes in the stuffing too.

Mushrooms: Sautee 2 whole pounds of chunkily chopped mushrooms of your choice in just a dash of olive & sesame oils & a dash of salt, and sautee until they stop sweating and appear to be drying out. (about 10 minutes or so.) At the end, add about 2 Tbsp. soy sauce (again with the soy....I've got a theme going here) and sautee another minute or 2 so the sugar in the soy starts to carmelize in the pan. Remove from pan & set aside. They'll shrink as they cook so you want the pieces to be big in the first place so they're still detectable in the stuffing.

Gizzards, hearts, kidneys: Chop these smallish and sautee in another dash of olive oil & salt, similar to the way you did the livers, until cooked through. I've never bothered adding more wine to this part but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. When finished, let cool then chop into very very tiny pieces, set aside.

Veggies: In the large pot sautee the onions, garlic, celery, until just transluscent, add salt, pepper, & freshly chopped & dried herbs, cook for a minute or so then remove from heat. Add the rice, croutons, pate, little bitty chopped meats, & mushrooms & mix together. This is stuffing. )

There, I think that's everything. I hope I wrote it out properly....this is from memory,but I likely got the measurements right as I've done it this way for years. As you can see I don't get too daring flavour-wise on this; just basic spices. But the combo of the pate & the wine & the sourdough & heavy flavour of the mushrooms with the sharp celery and just a subtle hint of oyster sauce makes for a pretty tasty stuffing, I think.

If anybody actually tries my stuffing I really would appreciate feedback on it. I wouldn't mind tinkering but I don't want to ruin a Christmas or Thanksgiving to do it, either. I'd love to try adding oysters but my family wouldn't eat it. Or more herbs and spices. I sure think it's good as is, but my family has a legacy of bad stuffings, so anything would be better than what we've unfortunately had to choke down in the past. Seriously, if you read this and it screamed out to you that there was something missing, I'd be all ears. But if you do try it & hate it, please do tell me. Perhaps I've been delusional with my cooking prowess all this time, and I rarely have an audience to guage honest reactions. But at least now everyone insists I make my stuffing every year.