Istanbul spice market

[Worldly]

It is quite a place - there are lots of opportuntiies like this when travelling.

I suggest buying blends, like the kofte mix. The individual spices are pretty much available all over now, but the particular blends are not so easy to recreate.

[sazji]

True - the chocolates barely taste like chocolate, they're all sugar and no flavour. But they are beautiful.

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Ah, I forgot to mention the Turkish Chocolate Axiom: The proportion of flavorlessness of a chocolate dish in Turkey is directly proportionate to the darkness and richness of its appearance. One of the most famous examples is the profiterol at Inci, which people go into ecstasy just talking about. It tastes like dark bland wheat paste. (I'm sure it's riding on very old laurels.) Cheap cocoa and chocolate flavored goo are dark colored, I guess.

The thing is, good chocolate is expensive, especially here, and most Turks simply cannot afford it. I've bought some decent bulk "bitter" which is semisweet actually, but almost every time the salesmen try to steer me to the chocolate flavored "drops." "That's what professionals use."

Edited November 15, 2005 by sazji (log)

[Nyleve Baar]

I forgot to mention that in addition to the huge bag of Turkish chocolates my husband bought, he also picked up a selection of halvah. Now, the thing is, I do like halvah. Usually. But RED halvah? Horrible. And the chocolate kind was really bad too. Then only kinds that were edible were the plain pistachio type (it was actually good) and the marble kind (ok but not as good as pistachio).

I assumed he left them in Istanbul. Imagine my surprise when, upon arrival at home, he unpacked a plastic bag full of squashed halvah from his bag. Eech. I ate what little was left of the pistachio kind, served the marble kind to friends the other night and fed the red and chocolate kinds to my chickens. They loved it. Go figure.

Edited November 15, 2005 by Nyleve Baar (log)

[Worldly]

LOL I wonder what the chickens will taste like

[sazji]

Red helva? I haven't seen that one. There are some brown ones - "helva" is a catch-all term for a very wide variety of things that have just about one thing in common: they are sweet, they are boiled in a pot, they are poured out, and are eventually sliced, usually. The familiar thing we know as halvah is tahin helvasi (tahini halvah). Some are really good, especially if you buy from the bulk blocks rather than the pre-packaged ones. But in Turkey you can find a cheap imitation of very nearly everything...

Most of the other kinds are made with flour, semolina of various grades, and wheatstarch, which is first browned (or just lightly sauteed) in butter, then mixed with a sugar and liquid mixture (usually with water but sometimes with milk). A good flour halvah, made with grape molasses, is really nice, and so is the "yaz helvasi" ("summer halvah," which seemt to be available all year around) made with a very fine grade of semolina, full of wanuts, and sometimes with cocoa added as well. Next time you come let me know, and I'll tell you what to avoid...

[ulterior epicure]

This is a great dialogue - I'm going to Istanbul in a few weeks and I'd love to hear more from veterens/others who have been.

Any particularly noteworthy dining experiences not to be missed?

Thanks!

Ulterior Epicure.

[Nyleve Baar]

LOL I wonder what the chickens will taste like

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We will never know what halvah-fed chickens taste like. Only their eggs and, sadly, they are currently on sabbatical for the season. I would have loved to taste sesame-flavoured eggs.

As for the halvah itself, it really was sesame halvah, but with some nasty red colouring and probably fake flavour as well. There was a vague taste of sesame. The texture was pasty - like semi-hardened play-dough - but with a touch of that graininess you get in normal halvah. It was cut from a large block. Should you ever encounter such a thing - run the other way.

I don't really know what possessed my husband to buy such a terrible thing. It didn't even look nice.

[sazji]

Or what posessed someone to decide to make it!

Speaking of which, I'm visiting friends right now in the town of Silopi, about 10 km from the Iraqi border. It's a completely Kurdish area; I almost never hear Kurdish except when they are talking to me. My friend Leigh Ann from Oregon is here with me, and she is making a blog of the trip. There is a nice food bit in it so I'm posting the link here. We had what was probably the scariest meal of our lives... I'm not averse to organ meats, but this was a challenge. Intestines and tripe (not only honeycomb), stuffed with rice, and boiled till the rice is almost mushy. I remember women in Greece turning lamb intestines inside out to wash them before making Easter soup. What we had tasted - or at least smelled - like a stockyard where sheep had been doing their thing... The great dark glob in the middle is - or was - a sheep head, surrounded by feet. Boiled till jellylike. I never figured out quite where the single bone figured into the equation, but the white flat part protruding to the left is nose/septum cartilage. Crunchy! When our friend Selman fed her an eyeball, she was a pretty good sport, I had to decline but we smiled through the rest of it. Enjoy....

http://lahlahlahlah.blogspot.com/

<img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/sazji/IMG_0267.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Edited December 1, 2005 by sazji (log)

[helou]

Or what posessed someone to decide to make it! 

Speaking of which, I'm visiting friends right now in the town of Silopi, about 10 km from the Iraqi border.  It's a completely Kurdish area; I almost never hear Kurdish except when they are talking to me.  My friend Leigh Ann from Oregon is here with me, and she is making a blog of the trip.  There is a nice food bit in it so I'm posting the link here. We had what was probably the scariest meal of our lives... I'm not averse to organ meats, but this was a challenge.  Intestines and tripe (not only honeycomb), stuffed with rice, and boiled till the rice is almost mushy.  I remember women in Greece turning lamb intestines inside out to wash them before making Easter soup.  What we had tasted - or at least smelled - like a stockyard where sheep had been doing their thing...  The great dark glob in the middle is - or was - a sheep head, surrounded by feet. Boiled till jellylike. I never figured out quite where the single bone figured into the equation, but the white flat part protruding to the left is nose/septum cartilage.  Crunchy!  When our friend Selman fed her an eyeball, she was a pretty good sport, I had to decline but we smiled through the rest of it. Enjoy....

http://lahlahlahlah.blogspot.com/

<img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/sazji/IMG_0267.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

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hey sazji, this is really interesting. the meal you show in the picture is exactly like our ghammeh in lebanon. we cut up the sheep's stomach, sew it in pouches and fill it with rice, tomatoes, meat and chickpeas. we use the same stuffing for the intestines and then we boil the whole lot with the head and feet. some people may recoil at the idea of all this offal but it is absolutely delicious and we consider it festive eating, given the time it takes to clean and prepare the different bits. we season the stock with garlic and lemon juice and serve it as a soup alongside the tripe, etc. do you know what the kurds called the dish? and for anyone who's interested, there is a recipe for ghammeh in my book on offal, the fifth quarter. sadly i don't have a picture. yours is great sazji.

[sazji]

hey sazji, this is really interesting. the meal you show in the picture is exactly like our ghammeh in lebanon. we cut up the sheep's stomach, sew it in pouches and fill it with rice, tomatoes, meat and chickpeas. we use the same stuffing for the intestines and then we boil the whole lot with the head and feet. some people may recoil at the idea of all this offal but it is absolutely delicious and we consider it festive eating, given the time it takes to clean and prepare the different bits. we season the stock with garlic and lemon juice and serve it as a soup alongside the tripe, etc. do you know what the kurds called the dish? and for anyone who's interested, there is a recipe for ghammeh in my book on offal, the fifth quarter. sadly i don't have a picture. yours is great sazji.

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They use the word "ser u pepik" (lit. "head and hooves" / Turkish, "kelle paça") to characterize the entire dish. As you say, the tripe is sewn around the filling. Here the food is a bit plainer; the stuffing was plain rice. I think tomatoes, meat and chickpeas would have made it better. Still, it is one of the favorite dishes here; many people eat it a couple times a week. But I have a feeling it wasn't cleaned as well as it might/could have been, because the innard/lamb smell was *really* strong, to the point where if I smelled my fingers (it's mostly eaten with the hands) I almost lost it. I've eaten lamb intestine soup, and of course kokorec, which I like when it's well made. Tripe is a bit difficult but this was really over the top! Much of the rural cooking is much plainer than that of the cities. Silopi has been a city for about 3 years, 10 years ago it was hardly even a large village, and most of the people here have come from other places. Our hosts are from villages the Sirnak area and only moved into the city during the fighting with the PKK when their village was burned.

There is a new installment on the blog. Last night's dinner was amazing; grilled lamb, stuffed bulgur köfte, a dish with meat and green beans, a different take on red lentil soup, salad, "ser be dew" (a sort of fine bulgur mush topped with "kishk" and melted butter, which was wonderful), and bread made by slapping flat rounds of dough on the walls of a "tandir" oven. And Pepsi of course. Unfortunately I was right in the middle of a rather unpleasant intestinal bug (it would come on for the two best meals of the week). Tomorrow Leigh Ann and I are making a late Thanksgiving dinner, complete with fresh cranberries brought from Oregon. (The idea of sweet/sour with meat is pretty odd here, we'll see how it goes over.) They do make a pumpkin sweet here so I think they will like pumpkin pie.

[helou]

hey sazji, this is really interesting. the meal you show in the picture is exactly like our ghammeh in lebanon. we cut up the sheep's stomach, sew it in pouches and fill it with rice, tomatoes, meat and chickpeas. we use the same stuffing for the intestines and then we boil the whole lot with the head and feet. some people may recoil at the idea of all this offal but it is absolutely delicious and we consider it festive eating, given the time it takes to clean and prepare the different bits. we season the stock with garlic and lemon juice and serve it as a soup alongside the tripe, etc. do you know what the kurds called the dish? and for anyone who's interested, there is a recipe for ghammeh in my book on offal, the fifth quarter. sadly i don't have a picture. yours is great sazji.

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They use the word "ser u pepik" (lit. "head and hooves" / Turkish, "kelle paça") to characterize the entire dish. As you say, the tripe is sewn around the filling. Here the food is a bit plainer; the stuffing was plain rice. I think tomatoes, meat and chickpeas would have made it better. Still, it is one of the favorite dishes here; many people eat it a couple times a week. But I have a feeling it wasn't cleaned as well as it might/could have been, because the innard/lamb smell was *really* strong, to the point where if I smelled my fingers (it's mostly eaten with the hands) I almost lost it. I've eaten lamb intestine soup, and of course kokorec, which I like when it's well made. Tripe is a bit difficult but this was really over the top! Much of the rural cooking is much plainer than that of the cities. Silopi has been a city for about 3 years, 10 years ago it was hardly even a large village, and most of the people here have come from other places. Our hosts are from villages the Sirnak area and only moved into the city during the fighting with the PKK when their village was burned.

There is a new installment on the blog. Last night's dinner was amazing; grilled lamb, stuffed bulgur köfte, a dish with meat and green beans, a different take on red lentil soup, salad, "ser be dew" (a sort of fine bulgur mush topped with "kishk" and melted butter, which was wonderful), and bread made by slapping flat rounds of dough on the walls of a "tandir" oven. And Pepsi of course. Unfortunately I was right in the middle of a rather unpleasant intestinal bug (it would come on for the two best meals of the week). Tomorrow Leigh Ann and I are making a late Thanksgiving dinner, complete with fresh cranberries brought from Oregon. (The idea of sweet/sour with meat is pretty odd here, we'll see how it goes over.) They do make a pumpkin sweet here so I think they will like pumpkin pie.

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interesting. you're right about them not having washed it properly and this may have accounted for your stomach bug. it shouldn't smell at all, well at least not an off smell. when my mother makes ghammeh, she washes the different meats many times in soap and water and there is no off smell or bad taste whatsoever. i recently made lamb's heads here for a radio programme and funnily enough, i didn't have to wash them so much. i suspect they were already cleaned. they were wonderful. i bought the best ones from a turkish butcher who didn't speak a word of english. i also bought some from an algerian butcher but they were less clean and quite bloody. i will read the next installment on the blog and i'll try to go there next year when i come to turkey.

[Nyleve Baar]

God. I am SUCH a wimp.

[FoodMan]

Ghamma is considered special occasion food in Lebanon. My grandma never fails to make it whenever I visit, usually with goat "parts". It's all a balance of flavor and texture really since different parts have different textures. Her stuffing is very oniony usually with a good spicing added in and some chickpeas, no tomatoes. My favorites are the small intestines and the honeycomb pieces...it's a texture thing again .

As for the smell, like helou said, it should smell appetizing, aromatic and fragrant with spice and other herbs (especially "ottor", not sure what you call it in english). the ones you had must've been not very clean. Thanks for posting the picture.

[Behemoth]

As for the smell, like helou said, it should smell appetizing, aromatic and fragrant with spice and other herbs (especially "ottor", not sure  what you call it in english). the ones you had must've been not very clean. Thanks for posting the picture.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for tripe (Menudo, Italian) but ghammeh is where I draw the line. I don't care what spices you put on it, it basically smells like spiced wet dog. Or wet otter, I suppose...

It seems to be common all over the middle east. My dad thought it would be funny to order "Padjeh" in Iraq for me when I was a kid. He wouldn't tell me what it was, but as it approached the table, well...I kind of figured it out. Bleagh, and I was a polite kid so I had to pretend to like it so as not to offend my hosts.

Sorry, carry on! Goat's head. Been there, done that. And oddly enough, I was always fond of intestine.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Behemoth (log)

[sazji]

This is a great dialogue - I'm going to Istanbul in a few weeks and I'd love to hear more from veterens/others who have been.

Any particularly noteworthy dining experiences not to be missed?

Thanks!

Ulterior Epicure.

←

I may have posted about it before but want to mention it here:

http://www.melengec.com/

This place was opened in April by the wife of a friend of mine from Tire in the Aegean region. The Aegean area is known for the widespread use of wild herbs, and this is the focus of Melengeç's dishes. The name Melengeç means "Terebinth," and one of their specialties is the shoots of this tree, gathered as they come out in the spring, and pickled. It's amazing.

I went last night and they brought me a sampling of...just about everything. On the site, check the "Yemekler" link to see some food porn pictures..

The menu includes (with omissions of some plants I don't know English names for and some things that are fairly common):

Terebıth pickle with lemon and olive oil

Wild Chicory

Wild Cabbage

Wild Mustard

Nettles

Wild Chard

Salt Brush

Mixed greens

Greenbriar

Purslane

Stuffed squash flowers

Aegean style artichoke in olive oil

black eyed peas in the pod

eggplant salad with yogurt

eggplant salad with grilled pepper puree

salad çökelek cheese

keshkek (a dish with whole hulled wheat and meat

The place is not cheap, but the food is so good, and the location, in an old traditional house with a view down the Bosphorus, is wonderful. They are also very friendly and welcoming. The host, Nevin, speaks French but not much English.

To get there, take a taxi (easiest) to Arnavutkoy and get off right at the "Iskele," the boat landing, across from the small square. The restaurant is at the back of the square on your right, across the street.

I'll be doing an English translation of the website fairly soon, inshallah.

[ulterior epicure]

Sorry all, I've been in Strasbourg for the last week and seriously neglecting all of your wonderful discussions.

In brief: I'm going to Istanbul next week and need some really good restaurant recommendations. Nothing fancy (but not hole-in-the wall either - unless it's really that great). But, I do want to focus on really quality local cuisine.

Also, I've been reading up on the Turkish culinary traditions and am quite frightened by the ubiquitousness of eggplant - which I am highly allergic to (though I love... sigh)... how can I ask (in Turkish) whether a dish includes eggplant? I know the word for eggplant in Turkish, but I also realize that there are a number of dishes that don't have the word in its name... also, how do I say "allergic" in Turkish.

Any food tips would be highly appreciated... as I am on vacation, I will not have a kitchen - so restaurants or prepared foods are my focus.

Cheers.

U.E.

[sazji]

Don't worry about avoiding eggplant, it's usually pretty easily identifiable; the only things I can think of where it's not obvious visually is eggplant salad, but it will have the word in it.

Τurn on your Turkish encoding on your browser:

The word is "Patlıcan" (pronounced "pat-luh-jan"). So anything that says "patlıcanlı" (with eggplant) is off limits.

Allergy is "alerji" (Alerzhi).

I'm allergic to eggplant: "Patlıcana karşı alerjim var." (Pat-luh-jan-a kar-shuh alerzhim var)

Foods that have eggplant in them but not in the name are still usually pretty obvious. Karnıyarık is eggplant stuffed with meat, musakka and güveç have big hunks of it. There is also a meze called "şakşuka" (shakshuka) that has it.

If you say "patlıcan mı" ("eggplant?") and get a negative answer you ought to be okay. It's not like vegetarians who ask "does it have meat in it" and find out it's full of chicken, or meat broth.

Have a great and eggplant-free time!

[ulterior epicure]

sazji.

thanks!! that was very thorough - i especially appreciate your phoenetic queues!

any restaurant recommendations?

u.e.

[sazji]

First (what a horrible subject to start with but anyway...) Overall food is well prepared and clean here, but some tourists get a case of "The Gurgles." It can happen anywhere, so the best is to just enjoy yourself, don't be too worried about it, and have a packet of anti-food poisoning medicine handy. It doesn't happen very much but if it does it can be a bummer. Pharmacies sell something called "Ercefuryl" that is not an actual antibiotic, it's cheap, and generally clears it up quickly.

Try one of the Anatolian places; my favorite is "Hala" There is also one on Büyükparmakkapı st, a few blocks down from Taksim on the left, follow it in past the "jog" and it will be on the left. You can try gözleme, manti and other Anatolian dishes.

A couple restaurants not to be missed:

Çiya in Kadiköy

Sahre in Fındıkzade (on Millet Caddesi, just past the Yusufpaşa tram stop)

Yeşil Edessa in Aksaray, near the Metro station.

The first is an Antep place with many unusual dishes. The restaurant is in two parts, one that has kebab and pide, and the place across from it with home cooking.

The second are kebab places that are a cut above the rest, really wonderful. Sahre is Antep style; Yeşil Edessa is more Urfa style. They bring lots of nice side dishes that you don't normally come across.

Try büryan (lamb cooked in a tandır oven) in the market west of the Aqueduct - this market is frequented mostly by people from Siirt.

Some of the nicest milk sweets/puddings are in Sütiş right by Taksim square as you enter İstiklal Caddesi. Try Turkish rice pudding, it's not like in the west. Also try Kazandibi, the pudding with chicken breast.

For Ottoman cuisine, try Kanaat in Üsküdar. Take the boat there from Eminönü or Beşiktaş and ask anyone on the street. They have two sections, one for cold olive oil dishes and one for hot/meat dishes. Just point and drool, the waiters will take care of the rest. But forego the desserts there.

For really good Baklava, try Güllüoğlu. There is one in Karaköy, across the Galata bridge from the old city. Another very good place is on Istiklal Caddesi on the right as you emerge from the Tunel station, about a block up. They specialize in baklava.

For meze style eating, go to Nevizade Sokak (Balık Pazarı) in the fish market in Beyoğlu. My favorite restaurant there is Imroz, the last of the places still owned by a Greek. Beyoglu is getting to be pretty pricey but these places are still more or less affordable.

Also try the stuffed mussels at the same market; the first place on the left as you enter off of Istiklal Caddesi is the best, the others tend to be mushy. Eat what you want, then the guys count the shells, divide by two, and tell your your bill. It's inexpensive and very good. The fried mussel sandwiches are good too.

For fish, Kumkapι is good, there are lots of restaurants to choose from and prices are pretty decent. Just check the menu first and ask about prices.

Samatya also has some good fish places.

Wine and liquor can be very expensive because of high taxation, especially in restaurants, so be careful or you might get a narsty surprise when the bill comes!

If you want a nice cup of coffee, and are in Sultanahmet, try Omar, near the cistern. Ask for the waiter Can (Jahn) and tell him Bob sent you. Their food is not bad, not overly cheap, but they have a very nice and different rice pudding with orange in it.

There are some really nice fish restaurants in Anadolu Fener, at the northern mouth of the Bosphorus. But getting there is a bit of a hassle. Anadolu Kavak also has decent places but as it's the last stop on the Bosphorus ferry, it tends to be pretty touristed and busy. Another nice place for good coffee is Taksimetro, just up from the McDonalds on Taksim Square, before the west entrance to Taksim Park.

Profiterol at Özsüt or Bolulu Hasan Efendi on Istiklal Caddesi.

Lokum (Turkish delight) from Hacι Bekir).

Avoid:

Fish sandwiches by the Galata bridge. It's not local fish, it's cooked in old oil, and it's pretty awful.

the Pudding Shop in Sultanahmet.

eating at the "Point and Drools" (the places with big expanses of prepared food) at night; the food has generally been sitting there for a long time. But they can be decent and economical for an afternoon meal. Bambi and Selvi on Siraselviler Cad. as you head down from Taksim Square are pretty good.

Stuffed mussels on the street. Almost anything else on the street is safe, and stuffed mussels usually are, but a case of seafood food poisoning is just not worth the risk...

Feel free to write if you have any other questions

bob

[ulterior epicure]

sazji:

I U!

Thanks for all of that - I will take more time and take down your advice on notes so that I can do some proper research before I go!

Cheers.

U.E.!

[sazji]

Glad to be of help! If you ever want a dining partner or bazaar company, let me know!

[ulterior epicure]

I assume that you are in Istanbul as we type?

[sazji]

Glad to be of help!  If you ever want a dining partner or bazaar company, let me know!

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I live here, check your personal messages for contact info. Now, to keep the thread sort of on subject , two more things you should try when you are here are Boza (a fermented millet drink that is much better than itsounds!) and sahlep, a drink made with ground orchid root and milk. Both are winter specialties that disappear around the end of April.

[ulterior epicure]

quick report.

just got back and am exhausted. i will give more details later - but i'm sorry to say that overall, we were very disappointed with our gastronomic experiences in istanbul... i think the best thing were the turkish breakfasts that our hotel served.

haci abdullah was terribly over-priced (and they tried to cheat me on the bill twice! will elaborate later). however, we did really enjoy (thanks to sazji's recommendation) their stewed quince with clotted cream. imroz, i think, could have been a much more enjoyable experience had i known what best to order - the dishes were hit or miss. oshez, near the gulhane tram stop was probably our favorite dinner experience. hamdi et lokansanti (eminonou) was pretty good and reasonably priced, but the services was a bit stilted...

u.e.

[sazji]

quick report.

haci abdullah was terribly over-priced (and they tried to cheat me on the bill twice!

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Yes, the quince is great, but their prices have gone through the roof, and their quality is definitely not what it was. I'll be interested to hear where else you went!

bob